@RogerB said:
If the meaning of a term "floats," then it is really "meaningless."
No PL Peace dollars are known.
I agree with the first sentence.
Without seeing the handful or so of NGC designated examples that exist, I don't know how you can conclude the latter. I have seen two examples that were truly PL on one side, so I wouldn't rule out the existence of a true PL (dual sided/all there coin). I will agree with you that none of the coins in this thread looks fully PL to me either.
I had a ‘21 PL Peace. Even the ‘21 Morgan is scarce in PL and DMPL. CC and San Fran minted the best mirrors for Morgans pre 1900 and the silver came from Nevada. I think what changed was the equipment or dies that minted the coins, not the raw silver itself. This is why even in modern silver mintages you don’t see the frequency of PL and Dmpl. There are articles discussing the different presses at CC and how much force was used to stamp each coin (#4 at CC). Congrats on achieving 75% pl and Dmpl on you Morgan set!
RE: "Without seeing the handful or so of NGC designated examples that exist, I don't know how you can conclude the latter. I have seen two examples that were truly PL on one side, so I wouldn't rule out the existence of a true PL (dual sided/all there coin). I will agree with you that none of the coins in this thread looks fully PL to me either."
I've been shown quite a few Peace dollars that have been called "proof-like." None were proof-like on either face. This includes the ones that a TPG opinion claims are PL.
RE: BigAl's comment -- " I think what changed was the equipment or dies that minted the coins, not the raw silver itself. This is why even in modern silver mintages you don’t see the frequency of PL and Dmpl. There are articles discussing the different presses at CC and how much force was used to stamp each coin (#4 at CC)."
Sorry, but almost all of your comment is wrong. Wherever you got this is full of bologna, but not sure what brand. Die polishing, usually during repair work, is the cause of PL surfaces. Type of press, source of silver are irrelevant. Fewer modern PL coins is more likely due to it being cheaper to replace dies rather than repair them.
If you dont think a PL designation adds value to a coin then why would any designation including grade add any value to any coin? Might as well deem all of numismatics pointless. Its just a 3/4s ounce of silver.
The PL argument is silly. Do these coins look like DMPL morgans? Of course not. But you cant argue that these P$ are not different in some way. The term PL has been agreed upon to suffice as an arbitrary label to describe that designation. Roger is clearly the P$ expert of the world I wont dispute that. But NGC has and Anacs has agreed with the sentiments a lot of people here have about a few of the P$ being "something other than regular" and calling the PL is the only option to separate them.
RE: "But XXX has and XXXXX has agreed with the sentiments a lot of people here have about a few of the P$ being "something other than regular" and calling the PL is the only option to separate them."
A similar problem affects "specimen" coins and "1964 SMS" coins and other imaginary items.
I dont know....if you dont think that beautiful 26s is posted up there isnt different and special in some way compared to run of the mill cartwheel P$s then while I respect your knowledge of the coin's history and insider knowledge, I would not be impressed with your taste in the coins.
Sorry, but almost all of your comment is wrong. Wherever you got this is full of bologna, but not sure what brand. Die polishing, usually during repair work, is the cause of PL surfaces. Type of press, source of silver are irrelevant. Fewer modern PL coins is more likely due to it being cheaper to replace dies rather than repair them.
In creating actual proof coinage, isnt pressure, method of strike, planchet prep, all of which are something other than polishing dies that results in the mirrors?
Collecting proof-like Jefferson nickels was the ultimate goal with me because I reasoned that this quality was a step higher than a lustrous coin. They're similar to proof coins but from Denver or SF. And they're not all that common either. In 27+ years, I have collected only a dozen or so of them. Same goes for early die state struck coins, that quality is a step up higher than your regular run of the mill coins and they're not easy to come by.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
The observe of the peace dollar was already mediocre to me. Then when i went to get one for my type set I realized most all of them are poorly struck. Possibly one of my least-favorite US coins.
@ilikemonsters said:
I have seen several PL Peace Dollar's, a few being in hand. From all which I have viewed in hand, and online, I would say only two are TRUE PL coins.
Would like to examine them and add to the next edition of the book. Let me know who, when, where.
Comments
If the meaning of a term "floats," then it is really "meaningless."
No PL Peace dollars are known.
Wow, that 1934-D MS63 PL is only a $350 coin without the PL.......but $8062? They're really socking it!
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
$7,712 worth of imagination.
semi pl reverse
I agree with the first sentence.
Without seeing the handful or so of NGC designated examples that exist, I don't know how you can conclude the latter. I have seen two examples that were truly PL on one side, so I wouldn't rule out the existence of a true PL (dual sided/all there coin). I will agree with you that none of the coins in this thread looks fully PL to me either.
I had a ‘21 PL Peace. Even the ‘21 Morgan is scarce in PL and DMPL. CC and San Fran minted the best mirrors for Morgans pre 1900 and the silver came from Nevada. I think what changed was the equipment or dies that minted the coins, not the raw silver itself. This is why even in modern silver mintages you don’t see the frequency of PL and Dmpl. There are articles discussing the different presses at CC and how much force was used to stamp each coin (#4 at CC). Congrats on achieving 75% pl and Dmpl on you Morgan set!
RE: "Without seeing the handful or so of NGC designated examples that exist, I don't know how you can conclude the latter. I have seen two examples that were truly PL on one side, so I wouldn't rule out the existence of a true PL (dual sided/all there coin). I will agree with you that none of the coins in this thread looks fully PL to me either."
I've been shown quite a few Peace dollars that have been called "proof-like." None were proof-like on either face. This includes the ones that a TPG opinion claims are PL.
RE: BigAl's comment -- " I think what changed was the equipment or dies that minted the coins, not the raw silver itself. This is why even in modern silver mintages you don’t see the frequency of PL and Dmpl. There are articles discussing the different presses at CC and how much force was used to stamp each coin (#4 at CC)."
Sorry, but almost all of your comment is wrong. Wherever you got this is full of bologna, but not sure what brand. Die polishing, usually during repair work, is the cause of PL surfaces. Type of press, source of silver are irrelevant. Fewer modern PL coins is more likely due to it being cheaper to replace dies rather than repair them.
If you dont think a PL designation adds value to a coin then why would any designation including grade add any value to any coin? Might as well deem all of numismatics pointless. Its just a 3/4s ounce of silver.
The PL argument is silly. Do these coins look like DMPL morgans? Of course not. But you cant argue that these P$ are not different in some way. The term PL has been agreed upon to suffice as an arbitrary label to describe that designation. Roger is clearly the P$ expert of the world I wont dispute that. But NGC has and Anacs has agreed with the sentiments a lot of people here have about a few of the P$ being "something other than regular" and calling the PL is the only option to separate them.
I think I owned that coin, did you buy that from a member here or ats
RE: "But XXX has and XXXXX has agreed with the sentiments a lot of people here have about a few of the P$ being "something other than regular" and calling the PL is the only option to separate them."
A similar problem affects "specimen" coins and "1964 SMS" coins and other imaginary items.
I dont know....if you dont think that beautiful 26s is posted up there isnt different and special in some way compared to run of the mill cartwheel P$s then while I respect your knowledge of the coin's history and insider knowledge, I would not be impressed with your taste in the coins.
Sorry, but almost all of your comment is wrong. Wherever you got this is full of bologna, but not sure what brand. Die polishing, usually during repair work, is the cause of PL surfaces. Type of press, source of silver are irrelevant. Fewer modern PL coins is more likely due to it being cheaper to replace dies rather than repair them.
In creating actual proof coinage, isnt pressure, method of strike, planchet prep, all of which are something other than polishing dies that results in the mirrors?
Collecting proof-like Jefferson nickels was the ultimate goal with me because I reasoned that this quality was a step higher than a lustrous coin. They're similar to proof coins but from Denver or SF. And they're not all that common either. In 27+ years, I have collected only a dozen or so of them. Same goes for early die state struck coins, that quality is a step up higher than your regular run of the mill coins and they're not easy to come by.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
The observe of the peace dollar was already mediocre to me. Then when i went to get one for my type set I realized most all of them are poorly struck. Possibly one of my least-favorite US coins.
It came from ebay, then i had it reholdered reverse up
in hand it looks better
I HAVE NEVER SEEN A PL PEACE
BUY THE PEACE DOLLAR BOOK
THAT IS NOT A GOOD STRIKE FOR A 21
I AM NOT A ROBOT I AM NOT A ROBOT I AM NOT ROBOT I AM NOT A ROBOT
I have seen several PL Peace Dollar's, a few being in hand. From all which I have viewed in hand, and online, I would say only two are TRUE PL coins.
Would like to examine them and add to the next edition of the book. Let me know who, when, where.