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Eleanor Roosevelt 2014 First spouse Uncirculated Gold Sold out in 6 months. final sales # 1886, New

189101214

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  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 4,337 ✭✭✭✭✭

    drei3ree,
    PCGS Leticia Tyler 105 FS PR70DCAM FS, Margaret Taylor 73. Numbers are one thing. Finding them for sale at a reasonable price is another.

  • The race between Nixon and Ford is too close to Call.

    16SB 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – P. NIXON 1,716
    16SD 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – B. FORD 1,710

  • Now the race is really too close to Call.

    16SB 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ –P. NIXON 1,738
    16SD 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ –B. FORD 1,738

    Their final year-end sales numbers may be around 1775. Buy which one will be the key?

  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Tradedesk said:
    Now the race is really too close to Call.

    16SB 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ –P. NIXON 1,738
    16SD 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ –B. FORD 1,738

    Their final year-end sales numbers may be around 1775. Buy which one will be the key?

    And the winner is . . . ELEANOR!!

    Pat Nixon and Betty Ford unc. are each 1975 in the Dec. 24 Mint sales report. That's an increase of 237 for each coin last week, and likely a result of heavy speculative buying. So barring a huge number of returns, Eleanor will remain the key at 1886.

    Proof sales last week were anemic, 8 for Nixon and 9 for Ford. With most collectors preferring proofs, I think that the Betty Ford proof will do better over the long term than the Pat Nixon or Betty Ford uncirculated.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • ernie11ernie11 Posts: 1,992 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 26, 2017 4:01PM

    @Overdate said:

    @Tradedesk said:
    Now the race is really too close to Call.

    16SB 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ –P. NIXON 1,738
    16SD 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ –B. FORD 1,738

    Their final year-end sales numbers may be around 1775. Buy which one will be the key?

    And the winner is . . . ELEANOR!!

    Pat Nixon and Betty Ford unc. are each 1975 in the Dec. 24 Mint sales report. That's an increase of 237 for each coin last week, and likely a result of heavy speculative buying. So barring a huge number of returns, Eleanor will remain the key at 1886.

    Proof sales last week were anemic, 8 for Nixon and 9 for Ford. With most collectors preferring proofs, I think that the Betty Ford proof will do better over the long term than the Pat Nixon or Betty Ford uncirculated.

    And the Lady Bird Johnson unc. actually is now lower than the Ford or Nixon, at 1,895.

  • drei3reedrei3ree Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 26, 2017 5:49PM

    I think it's a play (good investment too)...you'd just need to return 100 or more of each Spouse (non-70's) at the last minute and reap a huge profit... If all goes as planned, the 1975 number should discourage other buyers from disrupting the play/manipulation.

  • drei3reedrei3ree Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭

    This "play" will put a damper on the Nixon and Ford MS70 prices as the pops shoot up! Grrrrrrrrrrr

  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,997 ✭✭✭✭✭

    After getting shut out on a big time winner (Boys Town MS coin), many folks were simply trying to catch “lightening in a bottle” chasing the Ford/Nixon coins last week. The result - nearly $350,000-$400,000 in funds placed on “OK” coins that will not provide the massive price run up that the BT coins did (but might be “OK” in the long run). The question may be how much of this $350k-$400k in product will be returned to the mint in the next week or two. After all, it appears like “dead money” now. If most of it is returned to the mint, these two coins might still be the low mintage leaders. Talk about whomever spent this $350k-$400k controlling their own destiny!

    As always, just my two cents. Wondercoin.

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,573 ✭✭✭✭✭

    E Pluribus Unum.

  • kiyotekiyote Posts: 5,588 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 27, 2017 10:33AM

    Hard to believe it’s almost over!

    If they had just ended the 2016s at the end of last year we’d have Betty Ford as they key at 1,437.

    "I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
  • FullStrikeFullStrike Posts: 4,353 ✭✭✭

    These Spouse Coins are reminding me of the 1999 Proof Susan B Anthony Coin which lingered for something like 2 or 3 years. The SBA wasnt bad at $9.95. Compared to most of the "First Hags" the design wasn't THAT bad either. I've always liked the reverse design.

    One day I'm going to put an entire run of SBA's together. The sale of the first Spouse bullion pieces I have will make that more than possible.

  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @kiyote said:
    Hard to believe it’s almost over!

    If they had just ended the 2016s at the end of last year we’d have Betty Ford as they key at 1,437.

    If they had just ended the 2016s at the end of last year there would have been a last-minute rush to buy, just like now, only a year earlier.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • RaufusRaufus Posts: 6,868 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Now they are done.
    Who ordered proofs?
    Will be very interesting to follow sales numbers & returns in the coming weeks...

    Land of the Free because of the Brave!
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not quite done. Remaining First Spouse coins go off sale 11:59 pm December 31.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • RaufusRaufus Posts: 6,868 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sorry, my mistake. I thought they all went off at MN of the 28th. Didn't look carefully enough.

    Land of the Free because of the Brave!
  • kiyotekiyote Posts: 5,588 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I ordered a Betty Ford unc a few days ago.
    I’m hoping for at least a fair amount of returns to keep the number under 2,000.

    "I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
  • RaufusRaufus Posts: 6,868 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Did any of u order Ford or Nixon proofs this past week?
    Happy New Year

    Land of the Free because of the Brave!
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Raufus said:
    Did any of u order Ford or Nixon proofs this past week?
    Happy New Year

    I didn't, but if I had done a last-minute order it would have been a Betty Ford proof. Last week's sales totals were around 200 less than the Pat Nixon proof.

    I do have a nice Florence Harding proof. I bought it because I like the hat. Also mintage is pretty low.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • drei3reedrei3ree Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2018 5:44AM

    There may not be a good number on the returns for a couple more weeks. Although the Mint's stated return policy is 7 days, they do allow exceptions and are very liberal with the big dealers. I'll be very surprised if Eleanor isn't #3, but I wouldn't bet $400k on it!

    Ford proof will be 6th-8th lowest if it stays under 2600.

  • RaufusRaufus Posts: 6,868 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What is the lowest mintage proof of the series currently?

    Land of the Free because of the Brave!
  • drei3reedrei3ree Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2018 1:41PM

    Coolidge is 2315. Ford's 2458 puts it 5th, for now. I know there are many people speculating on First Strike Hags, but those numbers will change significantly. There are many many Hags being held in unopened FS eligible shipping boxes...

  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Raufus said:
    What is the lowest mintage proof of the series currently?

    Probably Grace Coolidge. All of the 2014 proofs are bunched pretty close together.

    2315 Grace Coolidge proof
    2372 Florence Harding proof
    2377 Eleanor Roosevelt proof
    2392 Lou Hoover proof

    I think in the long run the proofs will outpace the uncircs, since they are more attractive and therefore collectors prefer them. The proofs always wound up with higher mintages than the uncircs for this reason.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • RaufusRaufus Posts: 6,868 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks very much for the info!

    Land of the Free because of the Brave!
  • drei3reedrei3ree Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭

    Another big jump in Hag sales this week!

  • kiyotekiyote Posts: 5,588 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Betty Ford is at 2003! :/ maybe they’ll be a few returns for the next report.

    "I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
  • Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 7,395 ✭✭✭✭✭

    First Spouse 16SB 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ - NIXON 2011 01/01/2018

    First Spouse 16SD 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ - FORD 2003 01/01/2018

  • 92vette92vette Posts: 529 ✭✭✭

    As of the latest 12/31/17 mint report I'm seeing five uncs within about 60 coins of the Eleanor. It's possible however unlikely that any of these may be revealed as the final key.

  • With final sales numbers known, whoever recently bought lots of Betty ford and Nixon uncirculated coins can return enough coins to ensure the key status of either ford or Nixon. Smart play!

  • @kiyote said:
    Betty Ford is at 2003! :/ maybe they’ll be a few returns for the next report.

    So here is my prediction for adjusted final sales after returns in the next couple of weeks.

    Betty Ford Unc. 1790
    Patricia Nixon unc. 1810
    Lady bird Johnson unc. 1910

  • drei3reedrei3ree Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2018 6:37PM

    deleted

  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It appears there won't be any standout keys for either the uncircs or the proofs. The long-term value of the keys and near-keys will likely depend upon the relative popularity of the First Ladies who appear on the coins.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • kiyotekiyote Posts: 5,588 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2018 7:40PM

    This is an issue where melting will impact survival rates for sure. Some have said “No one is going to melt keys..” but try and sell a raw Edith Wilson Unc at your local B&M. You’ll get offered spot and if you are in a pinch, you will take it. Then it will languish in the dealers case for a few months until he gives up and sends it to the refiners. And while Edith Wilson may not be a key she’s still south of 2,000 coins minted.

    "I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
  • drei3reedrei3ree Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2018 6:15PM

    My guess is Ford & Nixon end up under 1900 with Eleanor. Coolidge, Harding, Eleanor & Hoover proofs are under 2400. They'll all do decent long-term. The four Liberty coins should also do well with Jefferson lagging the other three. The rest, who knows...

    edit: When gold hits $2k+ an ounce, that should shake up the Hag also-rans!

  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My guess is Ford and Nixon end up over 1900. Still a very low mintage for first ladies that are much more well known than Grace Coolidge, Lou Hoover and Florence Harding. Eleanor Roosevelt is widely known and popular, and would have sold more than 1886 if the Mint hadn't created a short run that sold out early.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • 92vette92vette Posts: 529 ✭✭✭

    @kiyote said:
    This is an issue where melting will impact survival rates for sure. Some have said “No one is going to melt keys..” but try and sell a raw Edith Wilson Unc at your local B&M. You’ll get offered spot and if you are in a pinch, you will take it. Then it will languish in the dealers case for a few months until he gives up and sends it to the refiners. And while Edith Wilson may not be a key she’s still south of 2,000 coins minted.

    This. A runup in gold similar to 2011 will cause the numerous also-rans of say 2000-2200 mintage to get melted whereas virtually no Eleanors or Lady Birds will.

  • kiyotekiyote Posts: 5,588 ✭✭✭✭✭

    We should get what’s close to the final numbers here in just a few hours!

    "I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
  • drei3reedrei3ree Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭

    Don't be surprised if they don't change much.

  • 16SB 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – NIXON 2,010
    16SD 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – FORD 2,002

  • Not done yet, it takes mint at least a week to process returns.

  • FullStrikeFullStrike Posts: 4,353 ✭✭✭

    I sent back 2 BU Fords a couple weeks ago. The had red spots on the reverse. Wonder if those came off the total yet?

  • kiyotekiyote Posts: 5,588 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2018 9:10PM

    @FullStrike said:
    I sent back 2 BU Fords a couple weeks ago. The had red spots on the reverse. Wonder if those came off the total yet?

    Sounds like they were never able to prevent the reddish streaks and spots. On .9999 gold!

    "I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
  • kiyotekiyote Posts: 5,588 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2018 9:14PM

    This one isn’t quite as bad but it still has that reddish rinse to it.

    "I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
  • drei3reedrei3ree Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭

    This is an MS70 with three big reverse spots!

  • FullStrikeFullStrike Posts: 4,353 ✭✭✭

    One of the Betty Ford BU I returned had 2 red dots on it like the drei3ree piece above. The other one had a big red splotch that looked awfully bad like a fungus growth of some sort. I'm really sorry I didn't get pictures but I was in a big rush to get those puppies on their way back to the Returns Center before Christmas.

    This incident tells me that PCGS encapsulation probably doesn't cause the red spots/dots/splotches . Something the US Mint does is causing this stuff to happen..... sort of like the Milk Spotting on the Silver Eagles.

  • GritsManGritsMan Posts: 2,599 ✭✭✭

    I also returned a Betty Ford with a "red zit" on her face. Did not request a replacement so that will notch down her number!

    Winner of the Coveted Devil Award June 8th, 2010
  • drei3reedrei3ree Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭

    Any good guess on the return time the Mint will allow a Whale/Dealer? Next weeks number will be over 3 weeks since the ~500 coin purchase of Nixon & Ford FS...

  • @drei3ree said:
    Any good guess on the return time the Mint will allow a Whale/Dealer? Next weeks number will be over 3 weeks since the ~500 coin purchase of Nixon & Ford FS...

    No idea. In my case, I ordered 22 coins and sent back 6 ford and 3 Nixon last Friday.

  • drei3reedrei3ree Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭

    Financially, it would make sense for them to send back the 69's of one and enough of the other to make it a new low mintage, and therefore maybe a new key--or I'd think it'd at least be on par with Eleanor.

  • The asking price for Eleanor uncirculated coins remains stable, suggesting that sizable dealer returns for Ford and Nixon are coming soon.

    To the free man, the country is the collection of individuals who compose it, not something over and above them. -M. Friedman
  • kiyotekiyote Posts: 5,588 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Mine came yesterday.. no problems, but not a 70.

    "I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.

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