@Tradedesk said:
Now the race is really too close to Call.
16SB 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ –P. NIXON 1,738
16SD 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ –B. FORD 1,738
Their final year-end sales numbers may be around 1775. Buy which one will be the key?
And the winner is . . . ELEANOR!!
Pat Nixon and Betty Ford unc. are each 1975 in the Dec. 24 Mint sales report. That's an increase of 237 for each coin last week, and likely a result of heavy speculative buying. So barring a huge number of returns, Eleanor will remain the key at 1886.
Proof sales last week were anemic, 8 for Nixon and 9 for Ford. With most collectors preferring proofs, I think that the Betty Ford proof will do better over the long term than the Pat Nixon or Betty Ford uncirculated.
@Tradedesk said:
Now the race is really too close to Call.
16SB 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ –P. NIXON 1,738
16SD 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ –B. FORD 1,738
Their final year-end sales numbers may be around 1775. Buy which one will be the key?
And the winner is . . . ELEANOR!!
Pat Nixon and Betty Ford unc. are each 1975 in the Dec. 24 Mint sales report. That's an increase of 237 for each coin last week, and likely a result of heavy speculative buying. So barring a huge number of returns, Eleanor will remain the key at 1886.
Proof sales last week were anemic, 8 for Nixon and 9 for Ford. With most collectors preferring proofs, I think that the Betty Ford proof will do better over the long term than the Pat Nixon or Betty Ford uncirculated.
And the Lady Bird Johnson unc. actually is now lower than the Ford or Nixon, at 1,895.
I think it's a play (good investment too)...you'd just need to return 100 or more of each Spouse (non-70's) at the last minute and reap a huge profit... If all goes as planned, the 1975 number should discourage other buyers from disrupting the play/manipulation.
After getting shut out on a big time winner (Boys Town MS coin), many folks were simply trying to catch “lightening in a bottle” chasing the Ford/Nixon coins last week. The result - nearly $350,000-$400,000 in funds placed on “OK” coins that will not provide the massive price run up that the BT coins did (but might be “OK” in the long run). The question may be how much of this $350k-$400k in product will be returned to the mint in the next week or two. After all, it appears like “dead money” now. If most of it is returned to the mint, these two coins might still be the low mintage leaders. Talk about whomever spent this $350k-$400k controlling their own destiny!
As always, just my two cents. Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
These Spouse Coins are reminding me of the 1999 Proof Susan B Anthony Coin which lingered for something like 2 or 3 years. The SBA wasnt bad at $9.95. Compared to most of the "First Hags" the design wasn't THAT bad either. I've always liked the reverse design.
One day I'm going to put an entire run of SBA's together. The sale of the first Spouse bullion pieces I have will make that more than possible.
@Raufus said:
Did any of u order Ford or Nixon proofs this past week?
Happy New Year
I didn't, but if I had done a last-minute order it would have been a Betty Ford proof. Last week's sales totals were around 200 less than the Pat Nixon proof.
I do have a nice Florence Harding proof. I bought it because I like the hat. Also mintage is pretty low.
There may not be a good number on the returns for a couple more weeks. Although the Mint's stated return policy is 7 days, they do allow exceptions and are very liberal with the big dealers. I'll be very surprised if Eleanor isn't #3, but I wouldn't bet $400k on it!
Ford proof will be 6th-8th lowest if it stays under 2600.
Coolidge is 2315. Ford's 2458 puts it 5th, for now. I know there are many people speculating on First Strike Hags, but those numbers will change significantly. There are many many Hags being held in unopened FS eligible shipping boxes...
I think in the long run the proofs will outpace the uncircs, since they are more attractive and therefore collectors prefer them. The proofs always wound up with higher mintages than the uncircs for this reason.
As of the latest 12/31/17 mint report I'm seeing five uncs within about 60 coins of the Eleanor. It's possible however unlikely that any of these may be revealed as the final key.
With final sales numbers known, whoever recently bought lots of Betty ford and Nixon uncirculated coins can return enough coins to ensure the key status of either ford or Nixon. Smart play!
It appears there won't be any standout keys for either the uncircs or the proofs. The long-term value of the keys and near-keys will likely depend upon the relative popularity of the First Ladies who appear on the coins.
This is an issue where melting will impact survival rates for sure. Some have said “No one is going to melt keys..” but try and sell a raw Edith Wilson Unc at your local B&M. You’ll get offered spot and if you are in a pinch, you will take it. Then it will languish in the dealers case for a few months until he gives up and sends it to the refiners. And while Edith Wilson may not be a key she’s still south of 2,000 coins minted.
"I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
My guess is Ford & Nixon end up under 1900 with Eleanor. Coolidge, Harding, Eleanor & Hoover proofs are under 2400. They'll all do decent long-term. The four Liberty coins should also do well with Jefferson lagging the other three. The rest, who knows...
edit: When gold hits $2k+ an ounce, that should shake up the Hag also-rans!
My guess is Ford and Nixon end up over 1900. Still a very low mintage for first ladies that are much more well known than Grace Coolidge, Lou Hoover and Florence Harding. Eleanor Roosevelt is widely known and popular, and would have sold more than 1886 if the Mint hadn't created a short run that sold out early.
@kiyote said:
This is an issue where melting will impact survival rates for sure. Some have said “No one is going to melt keys..” but try and sell a raw Edith Wilson Unc at your local B&M. You’ll get offered spot and if you are in a pinch, you will take it. Then it will languish in the dealers case for a few months until he gives up and sends it to the refiners. And while Edith Wilson may not be a key she’s still south of 2,000 coins minted.
This. A runup in gold similar to 2011 will cause the numerous also-rans of say 2000-2200 mintage to get melted whereas virtually no Eleanors or Lady Birds will.
One of the Betty Ford BU I returned had 2 red dots on it like the drei3ree piece above. The other one had a big red splotch that looked awfully bad like a fungus growth of some sort. I'm really sorry I didn't get pictures but I was in a big rush to get those puppies on their way back to the Returns Center before Christmas.
This incident tells me that PCGS encapsulation probably doesn't cause the red spots/dots/splotches . Something the US Mint does is causing this stuff to happen..... sort of like the Milk Spotting on the Silver Eagles.
Any good guess on the return time the Mint will allow a Whale/Dealer? Next weeks number will be over 3 weeks since the ~500 coin purchase of Nixon & Ford FS...
@drei3ree said:
Any good guess on the return time the Mint will allow a Whale/Dealer? Next weeks number will be over 3 weeks since the ~500 coin purchase of Nixon & Ford FS...
No idea. In my case, I ordered 22 coins and sent back 6 ford and 3 Nixon last Friday.
Financially, it would make sense for them to send back the 69's of one and enough of the other to make it a new low mintage, and therefore maybe a new key--or I'd think it'd at least be on par with Eleanor.
Comments
drei3ree,
PCGS Leticia Tyler 105 FS PR70DCAM FS, Margaret Taylor 73. Numbers are one thing. Finding them for sale at a reasonable price is another.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
The race between Nixon and Ford is too close to Call.
16SB 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – P. NIXON 1,716
16SD 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – B. FORD 1,710
Now the race is really too close to Call.
16SB 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ –P. NIXON 1,738
16SD 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ –B. FORD 1,738
Their final year-end sales numbers may be around 1775. Buy which one will be the key?
And the winner is . . . ELEANOR!!
Pat Nixon and Betty Ford unc. are each 1975 in the Dec. 24 Mint sales report. That's an increase of 237 for each coin last week, and likely a result of heavy speculative buying. So barring a huge number of returns, Eleanor will remain the key at 1886.
Proof sales last week were anemic, 8 for Nixon and 9 for Ford. With most collectors preferring proofs, I think that the Betty Ford proof will do better over the long term than the Pat Nixon or Betty Ford uncirculated.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
And the Lady Bird Johnson unc. actually is now lower than the Ford or Nixon, at 1,895.
I think it's a play (good investment too)...you'd just need to return 100 or more of each Spouse (non-70's) at the last minute and reap a huge profit... If all goes as planned, the 1975 number should discourage other buyers from disrupting the play/manipulation.
This "play" will put a damper on the Nixon and Ford MS70 prices as the pops shoot up! Grrrrrrrrrrr
After getting shut out on a big time winner (Boys Town MS coin), many folks were simply trying to catch “lightening in a bottle” chasing the Ford/Nixon coins last week. The result - nearly $350,000-$400,000 in funds placed on “OK” coins that will not provide the massive price run up that the BT coins did (but might be “OK” in the long run). The question may be how much of this $350k-$400k in product will be returned to the mint in the next week or two. After all, it appears like “dead money” now. If most of it is returned to the mint, these two coins might still be the low mintage leaders. Talk about whomever spent this $350k-$400k controlling their own destiny!
As always, just my two cents. Wondercoin.
E Pluribus Unum.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Hard to believe it’s almost over!
If they had just ended the 2016s at the end of last year we’d have Betty Ford as they key at 1,437.
These Spouse Coins are reminding me of the 1999 Proof Susan B Anthony Coin which lingered for something like 2 or 3 years. The SBA wasnt bad at $9.95. Compared to most of the "First Hags" the design wasn't THAT bad either. I've always liked the reverse design.
One day I'm going to put an entire run of SBA's together. The sale of the first Spouse bullion pieces I have will make that more than possible.
If they had just ended the 2016s at the end of last year there would have been a last-minute rush to buy, just like now, only a year earlier.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Now they are done.
Who ordered proofs?
Will be very interesting to follow sales numbers & returns in the coming weeks...
Not quite done. Remaining First Spouse coins go off sale 11:59 pm December 31.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Sorry, my mistake. I thought they all went off at MN of the 28th. Didn't look carefully enough.
I ordered a Betty Ford unc a few days ago.
I’m hoping for at least a fair amount of returns to keep the number under 2,000.
Did any of u order Ford or Nixon proofs this past week?
Happy New Year
I didn't, but if I had done a last-minute order it would have been a Betty Ford proof. Last week's sales totals were around 200 less than the Pat Nixon proof.
I do have a nice Florence Harding proof. I bought it because I like the hat. Also mintage is pretty low.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
There may not be a good number on the returns for a couple more weeks. Although the Mint's stated return policy is 7 days, they do allow exceptions and are very liberal with the big dealers. I'll be very surprised if Eleanor isn't #3, but I wouldn't bet $400k on it!
Ford proof will be 6th-8th lowest if it stays under 2600.
What is the lowest mintage proof of the series currently?
Coolidge is 2315. Ford's 2458 puts it 5th, for now. I know there are many people speculating on First Strike Hags, but those numbers will change significantly. There are many many Hags being held in unopened FS eligible shipping boxes...
Probably Grace Coolidge. All of the 2014 proofs are bunched pretty close together.
2315 Grace Coolidge proof
2372 Florence Harding proof
2377 Eleanor Roosevelt proof
2392 Lou Hoover proof
I think in the long run the proofs will outpace the uncircs, since they are more attractive and therefore collectors prefer them. The proofs always wound up with higher mintages than the uncircs for this reason.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Thanks very much for the info!
Another big jump in Hag sales this week!
Betty Ford is at 2003!
maybe they’ll be a few returns for the next report.
First Spouse 16SB 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ - NIXON 2011 01/01/2018
First Spouse 16SD 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ - FORD 2003 01/01/2018
As of the latest 12/31/17 mint report I'm seeing five uncs within about 60 coins of the Eleanor. It's possible however unlikely that any of these may be revealed as the final key.
With final sales numbers known, whoever recently bought lots of Betty ford and Nixon uncirculated coins can return enough coins to ensure the key status of either ford or Nixon. Smart play!
So here is my prediction for adjusted final sales after returns in the next couple of weeks.
Betty Ford Unc. 1790
Patricia Nixon unc. 1810
Lady bird Johnson unc. 1910
deleted
It appears there won't be any standout keys for either the uncircs or the proofs. The long-term value of the keys and near-keys will likely depend upon the relative popularity of the First Ladies who appear on the coins.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
This is an issue where melting will impact survival rates for sure. Some have said “No one is going to melt keys..” but try and sell a raw Edith Wilson Unc at your local B&M. You’ll get offered spot and if you are in a pinch, you will take it. Then it will languish in the dealers case for a few months until he gives up and sends it to the refiners. And while Edith Wilson may not be a key she’s still south of 2,000 coins minted.
My guess is Ford & Nixon end up under 1900 with Eleanor. Coolidge, Harding, Eleanor & Hoover proofs are under 2400. They'll all do decent long-term. The four Liberty coins should also do well with Jefferson lagging the other three. The rest, who knows...
edit: When gold hits $2k+ an ounce, that should shake up the Hag also-rans!
My guess is Ford and Nixon end up over 1900. Still a very low mintage for first ladies that are much more well known than Grace Coolidge, Lou Hoover and Florence Harding. Eleanor Roosevelt is widely known and popular, and would have sold more than 1886 if the Mint hadn't created a short run that sold out early.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
This. A runup in gold similar to 2011 will cause the numerous also-rans of say 2000-2200 mintage to get melted whereas virtually no Eleanors or Lady Birds will.
We should get what’s close to the final numbers here in just a few hours!
Don't be surprised if they don't change much.
16SB 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – NIXON 2,010
16SD 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – FORD 2,002
Not done yet, it takes mint at least a week to process returns.
I sent back 2 BU Fords a couple weeks ago. The had red spots on the reverse. Wonder if those came off the total yet?
Sounds like they were never able to prevent the reddish streaks and spots. On .9999 gold!
This one isn’t quite as bad but it still has that reddish rinse to it.
This is an MS70 with three big reverse spots!
One of the Betty Ford BU I returned had 2 red dots on it like the drei3ree piece above. The other one had a big red splotch that looked awfully bad like a fungus growth of some sort. I'm really sorry I didn't get pictures but I was in a big rush to get those puppies on their way back to the Returns Center before Christmas.
This incident tells me that PCGS encapsulation probably doesn't cause the red spots/dots/splotches . Something the US Mint does is causing this stuff to happen..... sort of like the Milk Spotting on the Silver Eagles.
I also returned a Betty Ford with a "red zit" on her face. Did not request a replacement so that will notch down her number!
Any good guess on the return time the Mint will allow a Whale/Dealer? Next weeks number will be over 3 weeks since the ~500 coin purchase of Nixon & Ford FS...
No idea. In my case, I ordered 22 coins and sent back 6 ford and 3 Nixon last Friday.
Financially, it would make sense for them to send back the 69's of one and enough of the other to make it a new low mintage, and therefore maybe a new key--or I'd think it'd at least be on par with Eleanor.
The asking price for Eleanor uncirculated coins remains stable, suggesting that sizable dealer returns for Ford and Nixon are coming soon.
Mine came yesterday.. no problems, but not a 70.
