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1854 O Half Dime, V-6 Variety, Die State?
TJC2
Posts: 20 ✭
I have this 1854 O Half Dime V-6 variety with tons of Die Cracks and strong clashing. I believe that the die may be near terminal state and am looking for information. I have looked on Heritage and other places and have not found any with strong horizontal Rx crack. Any help will be appreciated:)
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Here are some close ups:
And one more with the clash outlined:
I saw the half dime beacon and knew that I was being summoned.
As you may know, Dr. Valentine identified just four die marriages for the 1854-O half dime, his V1 – V4. However, the list of die marriages for that date has (unofficially) been expanded since 1931 with at least two additional die marriages. These include the V5, with a thin, incomplete O mint mark, which appears to have been first described by Walter Breen in his Encyclopedia as his #3072, although not designated as V5, and the V6, first (?) described by Al Blythe in his 1992 “Complete Guide”. Unfortunately, Al Blythe illustrates his new V6 with just a macro of the center of the obverse shield (but with no complete obverse photo), and with no reverse photo, so no positive die marriage attributions can ever be made from his description. [A die marriage involves the pairing of two dies – one obverse and one reverse – and no positive attribution can be made from identification of just one die]. Blythe does, however, give a partial verbal description of a few diagnostics for the V6, including mention of a tiny “die scratch” in the gown lines to the right of the obverse shield which may or may not be present on your coin.
In light of the fact that there is very little published information on the 1854-O V6 half dime, I wonder how you were able to attribute your coin as a V6. Do you have some additional information on that die marriage that I have not mentioned here? From all of the information that I have on the 1854-O V6, the best we can do is to perhaps identify the obverse die on your coin, and even that depends upon whether we can agree that there is the ‘die scratch’ next to the shield.
The pattern of die cracks on your coin is certainly interesting. However, I can’t help but wonder if perhaps at least some (but certainly not all) of the die cracks that you have highlighted in red might be either breaks in the toning, or clash marks. Certainly the several parallel lines on the reverse, within HA of the denomination, are clash marks.
Nonetheless, and more to the point of your question, I have in my reference collection two (2) examples of the 1854-O which I have tentatively attributed as having the obverse die of V6, and these two examples share the same reverse die as each other, although, as detailed above, there is no way to be certain that they have the same reverse die as the Blythe V6. Neither of my coins has the extensive die cracks as seen on your coin, and perhaps more significantly, neither of my examples exhibits the large reverse die crack from the rim at K9:30, through E1 of UNITED, and to the wreath, nor do they show the die clashing.
From the above, I can only deduce that one of the coins being discussed, either yours or mine, is not, in fact, a V6, and that they are from different dies. I am not prepared to state which of us has made an incorrect attribution, since I do not know what information you used to attribute your coin. You may very well have additional information that I do not have. Please let me know how you came to the V6 attribution, and perhaps we can dig into this deeper.
I am always reluctant to use the term ‘terminal die state’ to describe any coin, simply because I have at times been surprised when presented by even later die state examples. There would seem to be no question that your coin is a late die state, by virtue of the many die cracks, but with virtually no other examples to compare it to, it would be premature to call it a ‘terminal die state’.
@ MrHalfDime: Thank you very much for your help!:)
I achieved first verification of the variety by a half dime friend with the Blythe book. I then posted on another forum where it was pointed out that an incredible V-6 example was on Heritage. Heritage did a great imaging job and I can blow the thing up the size of a dinner plate on my laptop. To my eye the numerous die cracks match my example. Heritage gives this description for the variety: "The pendant is centered over the 5, the shield points to the top of 1, and a diagonal die scratch runs off the shield above the Y in LIBERTY into the skirt." See below:
https://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-half-dimes/half-dimes/1854-o-h10c-arrows-ms67-pcgs-v-6/a/1228-98174.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515
My example does have the tiny “die scratch” in the gown lines to the right of the obverse shield. See below
It was my understanding that the off set "O" mintmark identified the Rx as a match, but it sounds like I may have heard wrong.
As for the many obverse die cracks on my example there may be a couple areas I could be wrong on and I know for the viewer of this thread it may be tough to see the die cracks because of the mottled toning. I should mention that the coin was shot with axial lighting to maximize contrast. The coin also looks to have had an old cleaning. In hand there are enough markers to say that my obverse is the same the one on Heritage mentioned above. I am no half dime expert but I have been IDing large cents enough to be confident I am seeing true die cracks. The die cracks extending from stars 5 & 7, across the neck & cap, to star 9 are definitely there.
Yeah the terminal die state description is an overreach. In hind site, a poor assumption at best. How about late die state instead? Possibly unknown??? I would love to dig deeper to find out more. Hope the above info helps. Hopefully the MS67 HA example shed some light.
Thanks for your sharing all your interesting photos and observations on this coin.
Blythe describes only 2 features of the reverse of V6:
The Heritage specimen appears to have the start of the reverse die crack at E (rim to E and within the E at least).
I can also see vertical line clashes or scratches below the left stem and ribbon on both your specimen and the Heritage specimen.
Thank you, TJC, for your detailed and specific responses to my questions. From these, and the comments by yosclimber, perhaps we can find the answers we seek.
The Heritage MS-67 example of the 1854-O "V6" is certainly high enough grade for us to use for identification. However, as followers of this thread might guess, I have an important question. How were they able to positively attribute their coin as an example of the V6? The same limitations would apply to the gurus at Heritage as they do for all of us. With no published images of the entire _obverse die, and no images of the reverse die, how can _anyone make a positive attribution to the Blythe V6? The answer is that no one can. The only 1854-O half dimes which can be positively attributed to any Valentine marriages are his V1 - V4, as these are the only marriages for which he provides photographic plates of both obverse and reverse dies. The images of TJC's coin in the OP, and the excellent images of the Heritage coin, seem to agree on the one obverse detail - that being the "die scratch" to the right of the shield described and plated by Blythe. But we cannot see the rest of the obverse, nor can we see the reverse, and as yosclimber states, there appears to be disagreement with the Blythe description and both the OP's coin and the Heritage coin.
When I posted my response above, I neglected to state that I have several additional, unattributed examples of the 1854-O half dime in my reference collection, at least three of which more closely match the OP's coin (and the Heritage coin). I never attributed these three coins, as I could not be certain of the die marriage. But these three examples exhibit the die cracks seen on the OP's coin, in various die states. One of these coins, a VF example, exhibits the large reverse die crack from the rim to E1 (E of UNITED) in approximately the same die state as the OP's coin; the other two examples show the die crack in significantly earlier die state.
I think that, in light of the above, we would be better served attempting to answer the OP's question regarding the die state of his coin, and not trying to attribute the coin to any Valentine die marriage. After studying the OP's coin, and the fabulous Heritage specimen, plus my own three examples, I believe that all of these are of the same, as yet unknown and undesignated, die marriage, and all in different die states. The OP's coin appears to be the latest die state of the five coins being discussed, and the Heritage coin appears to be the earliest die state. My three examples appear to be in middle die states, between the OP's coin and the Heritage coin. This is a very limited sample, so any determination as to relative rarity would be impossible to determine, at least unless or until additional examples are reported. In short, the OP's coin appears to be a very late die state (VLDS) of an unpublished die marriage.
@ yosclimber: Thanks for the further Blythe info to contribute to the sleuthing of this coins Rx. The vertical line clashes or scratches below the left stem and ribbon are raised metal. Not sure from what whether clash or die gouge or something else.
@ MrHalfDime: This has been an excellent and illuminating experience. Thank you very much fro sharing your knowledge! My friend who first spotted the die scratch and matched it to the V-6 Blythe attribution gave me info that led me to another Half Dime collector and then to you here on this forum:) Its been a good journey and a "very late die state (VLDS) of an unpublished die marriage" sounds like winner to me:) This half Dime will be enjoyed even more now!!!
Question. Do your examples have the Rx die clash that mine exhibits? I do not see the clashes on any of the first three listed as "V-6(unknown die marriage)" examples, shown below on HA.
https://www.ha.com/c/search-results.zx?N=0+790+231&Ntk=SI_Titles-Desc&Nty=1&Ntt=1854+O+half+dime&limitTo=all
@TJC2: I also see 3 raised horizontal lines above the obv shield on your specimen, and both the Heritage MS-67 specimens. (First is 2004, Second is the Gardner May 2015 that appears a second time in October 2015).
The 2004 does not appear to have the vertical raised lines below the rev left ribbon and stem.
The obv die cracks in your specimen are all present on the 2 Heritage specimens.
Both Heritage specimens also have a light rev die crack at E that is heavy in yours.
All 3 show raised metal around S1 on the reverse. I would not call this the cudding described in Blythe, but it is noticable. This "cudding" seems to be the only missing marker in these 3 specimens that contradicts them being the v6 described by Blythe. So perhaps Blythe did not describe this feature correctly. Or maybe I don't understand his terminology - I expect "cudding" to be associated with a heavy die crack that goes to the rim in 2 places. But maybe he just meant missing metal on the die. It could be called die erosion.
@ yosclimber: Thanks for the observation!:)
I see the 3 raised horizontal lines above the shield on the obverse now that you mention them. Below is a close up and better pick of mine.
I think I see vertical raised lines below the left Rx ribbon on the 2004; I think the pic, as good as it is, is making it hard to see.
I am also seeing the Rx die crack at E on the HA example. I am not seeing any clashing that mine exhibits through and past the F & E of Half Dime. Nor am I seeing the clash that extends horizontally and then south east through the M & E of dime to the wreath. The clash I think is marker for the die state. I will be keeping my eye out to see if I find others with the clash.
Although I don't expect cudding and a die cracks to to correspond, I do agree that the raised metal around S1 of the Rx may be what Blythe described. A question mark in my head. My example doesn't show this.