The new photos reinforce my opinion that the coin has been overdipped. The obverse looks borderline Genuine worthy. At best I see the coin grading MS64.
Based on the updated photos, see a few more ticks, so I will go with MS66 shot 67. As always, tough to grade from photos -- the challenge is the "read" the photo -- it appears to me that the luster is washed out a bit by the photo style making it look overdipped. I get that impression from seeing the OP's other photos.
I suspect the coin has full luster and will not get no-graded for cleaning.
Originally posted by: Connecticoin Based on the updated photos, see a few more ticks, so I will go with MS66 shot 67. As always, tough to grade from photos -- the challenge is the "read" the photo -- it appears to me that the luster is washed out a bit by the photo style making it look overdipped. I get that impression from seeing the OP's other photos.
I suspect the coin has full luster and will not get no-graded for cleaning.
By tomorrow you will be calling it cleaned. From worth 80K to junk status. Glad you are not the grader at PCGS.
Originally posted by: LanceNewmanOCC . a nice cc and it may grade, perhaps even a lofty grade but the coin has been tampered with.
perhaps just improper and/or vigorous dipping.
for those that dont know, whomever you are, over/improper-dipping can be done to give a coin an appearance of less contact by removing frost which gives stronger contrast between non-contacted fields and contact marks/scrapes.
the more lustrous, pl, dmpl, proof etc a coin is, the more contact marks show and coins with more luster usually do get loftier grades because the graders aren't dumb, albeit overworked and a bit inconsistent. never met a human that wasnt and for that matter, machine(s).
ive seen 64/65s recently, because of dipping, they looked 67/68 but were treated properly and it is good, we for sure dont want to reward coins to be stripped and to some extent doctored.
not blasting your coin and i hope it turns out well but watch out for coins with this look, especially when paying up as you will end up getting nailed.
Thanks. In hand the luster is fully there. In my opinion it does not look like it has been over dipped in the past. I'm confident in it straight grading and coming back at 67 or higher. It is on it's way to PCGS and should be there on Monday. It's in for express service, so hopefully I will find out sometime this week it not next week. I will keep you all informed on it's status. Thank you for your opinions.
I'm going to say MS64 to put a positive spin on it. I can't conclude the coin has been messed with based on the photos. I'm not an expert on such things.
Dropped almost a point on the 2nd set of photos. Take a 3rd set of photos showing the obv field luster better and we could come up with a 3rd set of grades. And with new photos, everyone should be allowed to reassess their grades. MS67 is the best it could do now and I don't see that at all. And it looks more like a 66+ imo on marks alone, assuming the obv is not messed with.
The obv luster and Lib's cheek has an odd look to it so I think it could no grade or even net at 65/66. If the luster is just a tad off, they will knock 1-2 points off.
My best guess is netted down to MS65 if they grade it.
I sent out 2 different submissions on Friday. They were due to arrive today, but the tracking still shows as departed Portland on Saturday morning at 2 am. They were sent Registered Mail.
These were my first submissions to PCGS. One was this coin by itself and the other submission were the 4 coin voucher. I'm anxious for them to arrive.
Originally posted by: jtlee321 These were my first submissions to PCGS.
did mine overnight. talk about impatient. lol
gratz on ur first pcgs sub despite the results.
did u send everything there in one package? then have them come back separate? .
I sent them separately.. I know it was more expensive, but I wanted them completely separated.
I don't know what you mean by despite the results. I don't have any results as of yet. I am fairly confident in getting good news. I'm nearly certain the '83-CC will grade at a 67 based on the coin in my hands. I know the images can be deceiving. It was sent in for Express Secure Plus, so they will be imaging the coin as well. I will post the image they take of it when it becomes available.
The second submission, that I used my voucher on is no slouch either. In it is the raw 1945-S Micro S that I posted about a couple of weeks ago, which I'm hoping for a 65FB or better on. Then there are 3 other Morgan's, common dates, 1886, 1898-O and 1902-O. I'm expecting 65's or better on those 3, but we shall see.
Thanks Lance.. My first submission to any TPG'er was to ANACS and it was the 1919 DDO Mercury Dime which came back at EF-40, I was very shocked in a good way.
I'm hoping the good surprises keep coming. According to my tracking, both of my packages were picked up this morning.
How long does it take for an order to show up as accepted in the system? Just curious.
The images might have changed, but the coin did not. Blasting a coin with white light, so we can all see what is going on, is the only way to grade from an image.
Everyone wants a beautiful picture like a trueview, and then they start making foolish comments like, it's a 68! There is not a dealer on Earth, who knows anything, that is going to sell a 67 or 68 for 65 money.
I am still praying for you, especially now that you are convinced it's a 67. I also prayed that solid gold bars dropped out of my Butt. Still waiting for an answer on both.
I never said it was a 68. But my personal track record, albeit only two other Morgan's that I had a local dealer submit for me, came back exactly at the grades I expected. One was an 1884-CC GSA Morgan that came back MS65 and the other was an 1882-CC GSA Morgan that came back MS66. This 1883-CC is much better than that 1882-CC was. But, just like anyone else, I can be wrong. Just like you can be wrong. We will not know until the grades post. If I am wrong, I won't try to hide and not post my results. I will post them even if it came back as MS64 or cleaned ungradeable.
I don't want to come across as bashing anyone's opinion in here. I appreciate any and all feedback. Just remember that the images posted are at approximately 10X and the first set was shot to show everything on the surfaces. Also, I am not grading the coin from images, I had the luxury of examining the coin in hand with a 5x loupe and a 10x loupe under a bright light and darkened room. One wish I had is that we could all see these coins in person, it would make things tremendously easier. I know that I came on here asking for your opinions, which I welcome with open arms. I do think some of you are being a little tough on this coin, and a lot of it is due to the images. Again I explained how I shot those images and what the intentions of that lighting was.
Wabbit2313, you would be surprised at what some dealers are unable to do. The MS66 1882-CC I bought was from a dealer that graded it as a 64 and sold it to me for 64 money. I knew the second I saw it, that is was a 65+ or 66. The dealer I bought this '83-CC from sold me the 1884-CC at MS-63 money, and recently sold an ugly and heavily toned 1878-CC for $100.00 because he could not grade it. I snatched it up because I could tell it was MS under the crud. I dipped it very briefly to lift a majority of the ugliness off of it, then sold it to another dealer for strong 62 money. My opinion on the coin after the dip was that it was MS62. I saw no need to send it in for grading to have some of the meat taken away.
I am not trying to declare myself an expert, I am far from it. I am also not trying to tell any of you that you don't know what you are talking about, probably 95% of you have far more knowledge than I do. I have been collecting on and off since I was 10 and only in the last year have I really dedicated myself to learning more about Numismatics. I have looked at a lot of coins in holders and learned what should grade what. I have also spent a lot of time looking at photos on Heritage and making mental notes on what the assigned grades are. In my opinion, and it is only an opinion, I think I have developed a pretty good eye. I know it is difficult to grade coins especially higher MS coins from pictures on a computer screen.
My personal gut feeling on this particular coin is it's MS67+.
I have another submission that also was shipped the same day, but separately, and has also arrived today. It was the voucher submission I got for signing up for the PCGS membership. In it was the following:
1945-S Micro S Mercury Dime. My grade guess on it is MS65 FB. 1886 Morgan Dollar. My grade guess MS65+ if not higher 1898-O Morgan Dollar. My grade guess MS65 possibly higher 1902-O Morgan Dollar. My grade guess MS65 possibly higher
I'll post the results on that submission in another thread when those results post. I may start another thread and post the images I took of all 4 of those coins prior to submitting them, along with my guess.
I didn't say you thought it was 68, but those original images had others doing so. As far as I know, the coin remained the same and you took a more accurate photo. If it was blasted with white light and a straight up shot, Connecticut might even call it AU!
I hope you are right and get your 67. Here was my 67 and I don't think yours looks anything like it, but I still Pray for your coin Gods to step in, and mine.
By the way, blasted with white light to show everything.
There is not a dealer on Earth, who knows anything, that is going to sell a 67 or 68 for 65 money.....
There are plenty of dealers who don't know enough not to sell a raw MS67 for MS65 money. I had one such dealer in my area who just recently passed away. For almost 30 yrs the other dealers would routinely call or visit him looking for newps to rip off. Another dealer couldn't tell an AU from an UNC. It wasn't unusual to buy weak strike 63-65 coins for AU money. A friend of mine picked up a MS63 $5 no motto Lib from one for AU money. He quintupled his money. This kind of stuff goes on all the time, even today.
The OP bought a raw coin that they saw potential in. That MS67 1884-cc CAC Morgan "belongs" to PCGS and CAC. They're the ones that certified it. Unless you bought that coin raw and submitted it, your grading skills didn't enter into the equation.
I am still praying for you, especially now that you are convinced it's a 67. I also prayed that solid gold bars dropped out of my Butt. Still waiting for an answer on both.
That's all you need, is sometimes the coin gods smile down on you and say here you go. It's just a matter of being in the right place at the right time.
If everyone graded well there would be little need for TPG's. The fact that there is a CAC operating quite successfully, suggests even a TPG is not above the fray.
Abraham Lincoln (February 12, 1809 – April 15, 1865) 5$ bills are WOW with the numbers - wanted: 02121809 04151865 Wanted - Flipper notes with the numbers 6-9 or 0-6-9 ON 1$ 2$ 5$ 10$ 20$ Wanted - 10$ Sereis 2013 - fancy Serial Numbers
I'm hoping the grade pops on Monday, as that is my birthday. It would be really nice to get some good news on your birthday.. At least I hope it's good news..
Comments
-Paul
The obverse is cleaned, so sorry.
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I suspect the coin has full luster and will not get no-graded for cleaning.
Based on the updated photos, see a few more ticks, so I will go with MS66 shot 67. As always, tough to grade from photos -- the challenge is the "read" the photo -- it appears to me that the luster is washed out a bit by the photo style making it look overdipped. I get that impression from seeing the OP's other photos.
I suspect the coin has full luster and will not get no-graded for cleaning.
By tomorrow you will be calling it cleaned. From worth 80K to junk status. Glad you are not the grader at PCGS.
.
a nice cc and it may grade, perhaps even a lofty grade but the coin has been tampered with.
perhaps just improper and/or vigorous dipping.
for those that dont know, whomever you are, over/improper-dipping can be done to give a coin an appearance of less contact by removing frost which gives stronger contrast between non-contacted fields and contact marks/scrapes.
the more lustrous, pl, dmpl, proof etc a coin is, the more contact marks show and coins with more luster usually do get loftier grades because the graders aren't dumb, albeit overworked and a bit inconsistent. never met a human that wasnt and for that matter, machine(s).
ive seen 64/65s recently, because of dipping, they looked 67/68 but were treated properly and it is good, we for sure dont want to reward coins to be stripped and to some extent doctored.
not blasting your coin and i hope it turns out well but watch out for coins with this look, especially when paying up as you will end up getting nailed.
glad you shared and nice images, obviously.
.
thanks nice info....
My Washington Type B/C Set
Nice coin!
My YouTube Channel
The obv luster and Lib's cheek has an odd look to it so I think it could no grade or even net at 65/66. If the luster is just a tad off, they will knock 1-2 points off.
My best guess is netted down to MS65 if they grade it.
my 3 are logged in. wonder how my 79o will do.
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These were my first submissions to PCGS. One was this coin by itself and the other submission were the 4 coin voucher. I'm anxious for them to arrive.
These were my first submissions to PCGS.
did mine overnight. talk about impatient. lol
gratz on ur first pcgs sub despite the results.
did u send everything there in one package? then have them come back separate?
.
I also see a couple of insignificant marks.
My guess is MS 66.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
These were my first submissions to PCGS.
did mine overnight. talk about impatient. lol
gratz on ur first pcgs sub despite the results.
did u send everything there in one package? then have them come back separate?
.
I sent them separately.. I know it was more expensive, but I wanted them completely separated.
I don't know what you mean by despite the results. I don't have any results as of yet. I am fairly confident in getting good news. I'm nearly certain the '83-CC will grade at a 67 based on the coin in my hands. I know the images can be deceiving. It was sent in for Express Secure Plus, so they will be imaging the coin as well. I will post the image they take of it when it becomes available.
The second submission, that I used my voucher on is no slouch either. In it is the raw 1945-S Micro S that I posted about a couple of weeks ago, which I'm hoping for a 65FB or better on. Then there are 3 other Morgan's, common dates, 1886, 1898-O and 1902-O. I'm expecting 65's or better on those 3, but we shall see.
The second set of pics changed my mind some.
Doesn't look as 7-ish as the first set.
Based on the newer pics, I'm at 5+/6.
As another poster stated earlier, it's tough without rotating/tilting coin under a light source to really get a feel.
I don't know what you mean by despite the results. I don't have any results as of yet.
gratz on doing your first pcgs sub despite whatever happens.
my first one was a heck of an experience to pcgs, ngc and anacs.
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I still think it's Details and if not details then no higher then a 65.
But you might be more lucky then myself.
I'm hoping the good surprises keep coming. According to my tracking, both of my packages were picked up this morning.
How long does it take for an order to show up as accepted in the system? Just curious.
Everyone wants a beautiful picture like a trueview, and then they start making foolish comments like, it's a 68! There is not a dealer on Earth, who knows anything, that is going to sell a 67 or 68 for 65 money.
I am still praying for you, especially now that you are convinced it's a 67. I also prayed that solid gold bars dropped out of my Butt. Still waiting for an answer on both.
Wabbit2313, you would be surprised at what some dealers are unable to do. The MS66 1882-CC I bought was from a dealer that graded it as a 64 and sold it to me for 64 money. I knew the second I saw it, that is was a 65+ or 66. The dealer I bought this '83-CC from sold me the 1884-CC at MS-63 money, and recently sold an ugly and heavily toned 1878-CC for $100.00 because he could not grade it. I snatched it up because I could tell it was MS under the crud. I dipped it very briefly to lift a majority of the ugliness off of it, then sold it to another dealer for strong 62 money. My opinion on the coin after the dip was that it was MS62. I saw no need to send it in for grading to have some of the meat taken away.
I am not trying to declare myself an expert, I am far from it. I am also not trying to tell any of you that you don't know what you are talking about, probably 95% of you have far more knowledge than I do. I have been collecting on and off since I was 10 and only in the last year have I really dedicated myself to learning more about Numismatics. I have looked at a lot of coins in holders and learned what should grade what. I have also spent a lot of time looking at photos on Heritage and making mental notes on what the assigned grades are. In my opinion, and it is only an opinion, I think I have developed a pretty good eye. I know it is difficult to grade coins especially higher MS coins from pictures on a computer screen.
My personal gut feeling on this particular coin is it's MS67+.
I have another submission that also was shipped the same day, but separately, and has also arrived today. It was the voucher submission I got for signing up for the PCGS membership. In it was the following:
1945-S Micro S Mercury Dime. My grade guess on it is MS65 FB.
1886 Morgan Dollar. My grade guess MS65+ if not higher
1898-O Morgan Dollar. My grade guess MS65 possibly higher
1902-O Morgan Dollar. My grade guess MS65 possibly higher
I'll post the results on that submission in another thread when those results post. I may start another thread and post the images I took of all 4 of those coins prior to submitting them, along with my guess.
I didn't say you thought it was 68, but those original images had others doing so. As far as I know, the coin remained the same and you took a more accurate photo. If it was blasted with white light and a straight up shot, Connecticut might even call it AU!
I hope you are right and get your 67. Here was my 67 and I don't think yours looks anything like it, but I still Pray for your coin Gods to step in, and mine.
By the way, blasted with white light to show everything.
Here was my 67 and I don't think yours looks anything like it
nice1. wow. great frost.
just sold an 80s ms67 looked similar to this.
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got grades.
i will let op say when i can post since this is his thread.
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There is not a dealer on Earth, who knows anything, that is going to sell a 67 or 68 for 65 money.....
There are plenty of dealers who don't know enough not to sell a raw MS67 for MS65 money. I had one such dealer in my area who just recently passed away. For almost 30 yrs the other dealers would routinely call or visit him looking for newps to rip off. Another dealer couldn't tell an AU from an UNC. It wasn't unusual to buy weak strike 63-65 coins for AU money. A friend of mine picked up a MS63 $5 no motto Lib from one for AU money. He quintupled his money. This kind of stuff goes on all the time, even today.
The OP bought a raw coin that they saw potential in. That MS67 1884-cc CAC Morgan "belongs" to PCGS and CAC. They're the ones that certified it. Unless you bought that coin raw and submitted it, your grading skills didn't enter into the equation.
My YouTube Channel
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got grades.
i will let op say when i can post since this is his thread.
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My order page still shows "In Process".. I've been checking once in the morning and again in the evening. I just checked it again, and same message.
PM sent.
Thanks
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got grades.
i will let op say when i can post since this is his thread.
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What you talkin bout Willis...???
you guys crack me up.
i was referring to my 3 coins i mentioned earlier.
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You had me nervous.. LOL
What are your grades? Please... with sugar on top.
You SUCK!!!!! HAhahahahhah....
You had me nervous.. LOL
What are your grades? Please... with sugar on top.
Line # Item # Cert # PCGS No. Description Grade Country
1 1 81094505 7090 1879-O $1 MS65 USA------------bought raw $90---obv/rev toning
2 1 81094506 38443 1917-S 5C 2 Feathers FS-401 (FS-016.44) VF30 USA-----------bought raw $120
3 1 81094507 3957 1926 5C VF30 USA ------------bought raw $40-----ddo2
ty sellers, pcgs and the big guy in the sky.
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Line # Item # Cert # PCGS No. Description Grade Country
1 1 81094505 7090 1879-O $1 MS65 USA------------bought raw $90---obv/rev toning
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Nice! You paid MS60 money for an MS65 for a 30X to 40X gain.
Looks like you found a seller that didn't know what they were doing.
Not everyone can grade very well..
Looks like you found a seller that didn't know what they were doing.
the toning probably let it slip through the system. being a toner head myself, knew i had to try and am thankful it was placed in my path that day.
will image when they get back.
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Not everyone can grade very well..
If everyone graded well there would be little need for TPG's. The fact that there is a CAC operating quite successfully, suggests even a TPG is not above the fray.
5$ bills are WOW with the numbers - wanted:
02121809
04151865
Wanted - Flipper notes with the numbers 6-9 or 0-6-9 ON 1$ 2$ 5$ 10$ 20$
Wanted - 10$ Sereis 2013 - fancy Serial Numbers
Holy Crap, Sweet!