Does this seem right to you ?
TRADECOIN
Posts: 467 ✭✭
Bought a Lg. Cent from a dealer . The coin was in an old flip . The coin stated a tuff variety . Not being a Lg. Cent collector I made a deal with the seller to pay for the coin after PCGS slabbed the coin with stated variety . The coin came back from PCGS with the variety stated on the original flip . I paid the seller $300 for the coin . Plus PCGS fee's ( a super buy ) . Awhile later I showed the coin to a friend who collects Lg. Cents . He said he was sure the coin was not the variety stated on the holder . I sent the coin back to PCGS . They returned it with a different variety and a lower grade . I called explained the problem and was told to resubmit for reconsideration again . At first the customer service rep. at PCGS said it was a mechanical error , I told them it was slabbed with the submitted variety . Their mistake not a mechanical error . After over 5 months of calls PCGS finally offered me $150 ( because of the lower grade not their variety mistake ) They raised their offer to $200 with them keeping the coin . I'm not happy with the way PCGS treated me . I lost time and money , I'll bet This post gets taken off by our host .
Viet Nam Vet 66/67.
Retired Coin Shop Owner .
Still Collecting
Love my Grandkids and my German Shepherd Dogs . Kind of like my wifes Cat.
Retired Coin Shop Owner .
Still Collecting
Love my Grandkids and my German Shepherd Dogs . Kind of like my wifes Cat.
0
Comments
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.I'm sorry for what happened but I believe PCGS played it as they should have.
Lance.
They did make two mistakes. They didn't catch the incorrect variety on your original submission and overgraded it as well.
They offered you compensation for what they thought was fair.
I don't think the original $300 you paid for the coin raw really comes into play. You also missed the variety and over paid, which doesn't have anything to do with PCGS.
Edit - even though it's been 5 months, you might want to contact the dealer you bought it from (if you still have the coin) and see if you can work something out with them with returning the coin.
Retired Coin Shop Owner .
Still Collecting
Love my Grandkids and my German Shepherd Dogs . Kind of like my wifes Cat.
Retired Coin Shop Owner .
Still Collecting
Love my Grandkids and my German Shepherd Dogs . Kind of like my wifes Cat.
Just reading what you have put here, you obviously have the information and timelines, but what I don't see is how it was presented to PCGS.
I would put them in a simple timeline and outline names of who I talked to, what I was told, and what my expectations were.
I would also call out the bottomline....
"Bought and paid for in a done-deal from a dealer based on the PCGS submission results and now those results proved erroneous and the out of pocket, due to relying on PCGS' expert, and paid for, attributions are $coincost+fees, and that my expectations are to be made who...and that PCGS can keep the coin if it comes down to it".
Since you have obviously been dealing with customer service, and aren't happy with the results, I would politely ask to go up the chain.
PCGS can be reasonable when things are laid out nicely....so, if the above wasn't quite done with the laid out information and request on expectations, then that would be my path.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
David Hall )makes the decisions .
Retired Coin Shop Owner .
Still Collecting
Love my Grandkids and my German Shepherd Dogs . Kind of like my wifes Cat.
You sent the coin back for them to correct one problem and they created another. In my opinion they should offer you the value of the coin correctly attributed and in the original grade. Anything else just looks sketchy.
am I understanding that PCGS returned to you a coin different than the one you sent them ?
No, that is not what he said at all. You should go back and read the post again. He stated that the coin was sent in for reconsideration and was returned with a different variety listed and at a lower grade.
You could have avoided all the hassles by learning yourself what the variety was in the first place.
But your point about mistakes in variety attribution is still good.
Perhaps PCGS could improve the accuracy of their variety attribution by
teaming up with specialists.
After detailed coin photos are taken, they could be put online and the specialist
could check them.
The specialist's name could be added to the label as well.
This is a mess.
Yup. I'd be upset too. The hardest things to sort out are when there are a pile of mistakes to deal with. There are at least four here. The dealer didn't attribute it correctly. You didn't attribute it correctly. The TPG didn't grade it consistently, and the TPG took two tries to get the attribution right.
I don't think our host is responsible for two of the four, (the buy price is irrelevant) but with the other two it would be nice if they could work out something that was acceptable to you.
I doubt there's any scenario that leaves everyone with good feelings though.
PCGS is firmly behind grade guarantees. That is all you can rely on.
Lance.
Is the Variety Attribution guaranteed?
Yes.
With that said, my thoughts are I would think the dealer should take the coin back. I believe I have heard that in some cases PCGS would like to back track to the original submitter. In this case it would not work. I would not have purchased a coin that I could not verify myself, which was stated earlier by Yosclimber. If this were me, I would take the offer from PCGS (either keep the coin if you like it w/$150.00 or turn the coin over and receive $200.00) and chalk this up to a learning experience.
Ken
p.s. I know ats states they do not guaranty attributed coins and that is why I use PCGS. Still one has to be sure that what they are buying.........
My Washington Type B/C Set
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Variety and die marriage attributions are not covered by the guarantee. Period...
PCGS is firmly behind grade guarantees. That is all you can rely on.
Lance.
I dont think you are correct, Lance. It clearly states under their variety attributions page that they ARE in fact guaranteed. What is the point of paying all that money for variety attibutions if they can just claim "mechanical error" anytime they get it wrong? They verified the variety, and now it is time to own up to their mistake and make the submitter whole again.
Afterall, he trusted them for their expert opinion and based his purchase off that trust.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
That has been my experience with more than a dozen mistakes caught over the last year or two which were later fixed by PCGS.
Still, I would not be surprised if something really significant happened and PCGS worked out a settlement as a matter of good faith or business.
Lance.
-------
From PCGS's website:
What the PCGS Guarantee Does Not Cover
The following is further explanation of what the PCGS Guarantee does not cover.
Clerical or "mechanical" errors. PCGS occasionally makes clerical errors in inputting data which is shown on the insert in the PCGS holder; consequently the PCGS Guarantee does not cover obvious clerical errors, what we call "mechanical errors." The key concept is how obvious the error is to the naked eye. If you can easily tell just by looking at the coin that the description on the holder is wrong, then the coin/holder combination is not covered by the PCGS Guarantee. Examples would include the following:
A date listed on the holder that does not match the date of the coin. For example, if you had a 1928 $20 St. Gaudens, but the PCGS holder showed the date as 1929 (a much more valuable coin), this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as the date on the coin itself is obviously 1928.
A designation that is obviously incorrect. For example, if you had a 1945 Philadelphia Mercury dime and the bands on the reverse were as flat as a pancake and obviously not fully struck, but the PCGS holder showed the designation as "FB" for fully struck crossbands, this coin would not be covered the PCGS Guarantee as the crossbands are obviously not fully struck.
Proofs shown as regular strikes and regular strikes shown as proofs. For example, if you had an obvious regular strike 1907 $2.5 gold piece, but the PCGS holder showed the coin as a proof, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as the difference between a regular strike and proof 1907 $2.5 is obvious.
An obviously misidentified coin. For example, if you have a Hudson silver commemorative, but the PCGS holder showed the coin as a Hawaiian silver commemorative, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as a Hudson is obviously not a Hawaiian.
A variety attribution that is obviously incorrect. For example, if you had a normal date 1942 Mercury dime, but the PCGS holder showed the coin as a much rarer 1942/1 overdate, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as the date is obviously normal. Another example would be if you had a 1945 Mercury dime with an obviously normal size mint mark, but the PCGS holder showed the coin as a "Micro S." This coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee since the mint mark is obviously normal size.
A blatantly obvious clerical input mistake with respect to the actual grade of the coin. For example, if you had an 1893-O Morgan dollar and the PCGS holder showed the coin as MS65 (a Gem quality coin), but the coin was so beat up and marked up that it would grade MS60 at best, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as this would be an obvious input error. The rule of thumb here would be a difference of more than two points on the grading scale.
Bottom line = due diligence.
Sorry for your loss.
Cheers
Bob
THIS
If you don't really understand what you intend to buy, the only safe thing to do is keep your money in your pocket.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
In my opinion they honored the first guarentee by correcting the variety designation but have failed by not guaranteeing the original grade gauarentee .
WS
In my opinion they honored the first guarentee by correcting the variety designation but have failed by not guaranteeing the original grade gauarentee .
WS
Did you say what you meant? PCGS honored the grade guarantee for having lowered the grade. It was the usual straight payout with the coin returned ($150), or higher payout without the coin ($200).
What they were unwilling to do is compensate OP for the reduced value of the coin due to its corrected variety.
Lance.
In my opinion they honored the first guarentee by correcting the variety designation but have failed by not guaranteeing the original grade gauarentee .
WS
Did you say what you meant? PCGS honored the grade guarantee for having lowered the grade. It was the usual straight payout with the coin returned ($150), or higher payout without the coin ($200).
What they were unwilling to do is compensate OP for the reduced value of the coin due to its corrected variety.
Lance.
I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant...
You're paying for the service so let PCGS figure it out.
I think a better strategy is to cite the correct PCGS coin number and variety or die marriage, assuming you are certain of what it is.
Yeah, I get that doing this makes it easy for PCGS to quickly swallow your variety attribution money without exerting much effort (they will verify it, of course). But I'd rather have it right the first time.
Lance.
I thought the guarantee covered attributions; does it not? This is of interest to variety collectors.
Variety Attributions are in fact guaranteed.
That's why they cost $18.
Additionally, the folks that answer the telephone's, often do not know what they are talking about or they get misinformation from callers. Either way, it's not a reliable source for making a determination on the status of a coin or how to address a problem.
In the OP's case, maybe some better attribution skills are needed before plunking down a lot of money for a coin and "UNDERSTAND" that PCGS, while a reputable grading company, doe snot ALWAYS get attributions correct.
There are COUNTLESS 1971-S Eisenhower FS-103's out there which simply are NOT FS-103's. It really honks up the values.
The name is LEE!
Now lets say hypothetically a second example, a lower graded example hit the auction block and hammers at $5,000.
I would expect the price guide to eventually adjust accordingly.
Now the owner of the 1st coin sends it in because it's clearly a missattribution, not even close and at best a $10 dollar coin.
Does the owner receive let's say the new price guide # of $7,500? Or the $10 dollars?
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I thought the guarantee covered attributions; does it not? This is of interest to variety collectors.
Variety Attributions are in fact guaranteed.
That's why they cost $18.
Additionally, the folks that answer the telephone's, often do not know what they are talking about or they get misinformation from callers. Either way, it's not a reliable source for making a determination on the status of a coin or how to address a problem.
Sigh...I don't know how to say it more clearly.
Lance.