Coinfacts 1850 Double Liberty Proof -photo up now
northcoin
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Here is an attempt to provide photo of above coin which I own.
This is the coin identified as possibly unique on the Coinfacts site as the first $20 proof/presentation piece, excepting the 1849 specimen in the Smithsonian. Interestingly Breen identifies the coin in his reportings of gold proofs with the notation that he was aware of the Green coin but had not seen it personally. Breen estimated there may have been as many as 5 proofs of the 1850 Double Eagle. Coinfacts Description of the PR62 attributed to Dr. C.W. Green
This is the coin identified as possibly unique on the Coinfacts site as the first $20 proof/presentation piece, excepting the 1849 specimen in the Smithsonian. Interestingly Breen identifies the coin in his reportings of gold proofs with the notation that he was aware of the Green coin but had not seen it personally. Breen estimated there may have been as many as 5 proofs of the 1850 Double Eagle. Coinfacts Description of the PR62 attributed to Dr. C.W. Green
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You have to upload the picture first.
Follow the instructions nwcs left in your other thread.
Practice on the Testing Forum. After a while, you'll get it and it won't seem so tough.
He figured out how to post pics!
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
I'm not sure what SEGS means, and maybe I'm wrong. But it sounds like they are pointing out a flaw, like cleaning, or scratched, etc.
Or, are they referring to the proof status??
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A cool coin to own indeed.
Die striations showing up that SEGS thinks are hairlines holding the grade down? Or something else?
<< <i>Slab says, "Enhanced Surfaces".
I'm not sure what SEGS means, and maybe I'm wrong. But it sounds like they are pointing out a flaw, like cleaning, or scratched, etc.
Or, are they referring to the proof status?? >>
I think SEGS places a star(*) on the insert of the holder when a coin is a problem coin. Your coin does have the star(*). Can anyone confirm this?
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Those requesting a close-up. PM me your email address and I'll try to email the full sized photo Monday since I had to size it down to get it onto this site.
<< <i>
I think SEGS places a star(*) on the insert of the holder when a coin is a problem coin. Your coin does have the star(*). Can anyone confirm this? >>
That's correct. Amazingly, I recently got a SEGS "star" coin into a PCGS holder. It had a pinscratch which PCGS decided was "market acceptable".
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I was prompted to update this thread after reading new information provided in the Appendix of Michael Moran and Jeff Garrett's recently published book, "1849 - The Philadelphia Mint State Gold" (Whitman Publishing Company, 2016) at page 290 the following:
"There is reportedly a proof example of the date [1850 Double Eagle] that has been seen in Paris, France. ..... This coin would be an incredible addition to the population of great Double Eagles . Perhaps the coin will someday reach the shores of the United States."
Also of note it appears that a new category of "Proof 1850 Double Eagles" has now been added to the currently updated CoinFacts site now that it has been affiliated with PCGS. Therein reference is made to a "Cleaned" PR-61 1850 Double Eagle that had been seen in a Paris museum.
It would certainly be of interest to compare my "PR-62" with the "Cleaned" PR-61, if and when photographs surface.
I should add that in the intervening years I have learned that my 1850 Double Eagle was once part of Longacre's personal collection. (See below)
In any event, to respond to the earlier requests here is a photo of both the obverse and the reverse of my subject 1850 Double Eagle:
Here is the above referenced attribution provided by firstmint [Karl Moulton] with regard to my 1850 Double Eagle:
"That is certainly a distinctive coin. However, in 1949, when Max Mehl catalogued it, he disagreed with the Proof designation.
Mehl had numerous real twenty dollar proofs (from 1871 to 1907) in the same sale to compare this item with, including a 1904, that Green purchased as a Proof, that Mehl correctly catalogued as "brilliant uncirculated with proof surface".
To have this in a TPG holder now, and labeled as a Proof (according to Breen) is a real misnomer. There is no evidence there were any ever presented as special pieces.
IMO, the coin is a first strike from the regular production dies, that happened to get saved and ended up in numismatic channels.
That would be the real story behind this nice coin.
Edited to add the rest of the story -
After doing some quick research and looking for an answer to the reason for such a coin being saved, I uncovered the original appearance for this particular coin.
It came from the James B. Longacre estate (the coin's designer), and was sold in the January 21, 1870 auction sale conducted by
M(oses) Thomas & Sons in Philadelphia. It was lot #178.
The lot description was: "1850, Double Eagle, proof. This piece was from the first dies used for the double eagle, and might be termed a trial piece."
There were also three 1848 CAL Quarter Eagles listed as being proof. However, most everything in the past that was prooflike has been catalogued and sold as a proof, even though that is not the case.
I believe the J B Longacre pedigree (as a first strike) is much more significant than the C W Green listing as a proof w/ enhanced surfaces."
In response to firstmint's attribution, numisma of O.C. Rare Coin & Bullion added:
"I believe the J B Longacre pedigree (as a first strike) is much more significant than the C W Green listing as a proof w/ enhanced surfaces.
I agree. That is an important fact that you provided northcoin and can only add to the allure and historical significance of the piece (as well as the value). Nice work firstmint! This is proof that it pays to have an extensive library.
In today's fast pace numismatic world coins are traded quickly and often. As such, provenance and other historical facts associated with the coins tend to get lost in the transactions, which is regretful. "
The following may also be if interest to anyone who has read this far with regard to my 1850 Double Eagle:
As noted on the holder, it once belonged to C.W. Green. Interestingly in reading Breen's book cataloging gold proofs I came across a reference by Breen to the very coin. He noted that there were possibly several Presentation Pieces a/k/a proofs made of the first $20 gold piece available for circulation in 1850. He went on to note that Green was reported to have one, but that he had never seen it himself. In addition, the coin is featured on CoinFacts.com as its first described "Significant example" of the 1850 Double Eagle, and CoinFacts further notes under Mintage, "Proofs: Unique?"
An added personal footnote to the story. When David Bowers was compiling his book on Double Eagles I afforded him an opportunity to view the coin and to my surprise he kindly added my name to the credits for sharing the coin. ) At the time David Bowers was compiling his book on Double Eagles the coin's earlier auction history and connection to Longacre's personal collection, as above described, had not yet been learned.
In addition, here is the above referenced "Coin Facts" description of the coin and it more recent auction history:
Significant examples:
SEGS Proof-62, "Presentation/PL, enhanced surfaces". Ex - Superior Galleries' "Pre-Long Beach Sale" May 27-29, 2001, Lot 4170A, where it was described as follows: "1850 SEGS graded Proof 62 marked "Presentation/PL" and " Enhanced Surfaces". The coin is also pedigreed to Dr. C. W. Green and so noted on the holder. This is the first collectible issue of the United States Double Eagle series. This coin has a beautiful bold strike with full stars and all other details sharp and clear. The fields are Prooflike and you can see clearly with magnification that the dies and planchet were enhanced prior to striking..."