A $66 Coin Sells for about $2,500 including fees.

keyman64 · September 20, 2015 4:18PM

1881-S $1 PCGS MS-63 CAC
Oh, before I forget, it also happens to have some obverse toning that a few people like.

Congrats to the seller and new owner.

Christos · September 20, 2015 4:20PM

Very strong money for toning.

keyman64 · September 20, 2015 4:21PM

<< Very strong money for reverse toning. >>

My coin is not the coin in the auction. Removed it from my OP to avoid confusion.

Zoins · September 20, 2015 4:24PM

Very good to see the market is strong for Morgan toners. Nice elevation chromatics and subtle pull-away toning on that one.

I was just thinking about Morgan toners today and who the collectors are today. Is there a replacement for the Toned Coin Collectors Society (TCCS) today?

jcping · September 20, 2015 4:30PM

I don't understand why you said it is a $66 coin. It is a PCGS MS63 CAC coin. PCGS did not put $66 tag on it. Are all PCGS MS63 coin created equally

Zoins · September 20, 2015 4:32PM

<< I don't understand why you said it is a $66 coin. It is a PCGS MS63 CAC coin. PCGS did not put $66 tag on it. Are all PCGS MS63 coin created equally

>>

Actually, PCGS did put a $66 price tag on it

See here PCGS #30732394.

The thing is that the PCGS Price Guide doesn't include toning premiums.

This reminds me of the MS-62 that was posted here a while back. Does anyone have the link to the MS-62 thread?

keyman64 · September 20, 2015 4:33PM

<< I don't understand why you said it is a $66 coin. It is a PCGS MS63 CAC coin. PCGS did not put $66 tag on it. Are all PCGS MS63 coin created equally

>>

Seriously? I even have a winking smiley in my post indicating a bit of levity and you want to go there with this?

lordmarcovan · September 20, 2015 4:37PM

Very pretty toning, but man... that's nuts, IMHO.

TopographicOceans · September 20, 2015 4:52PM

Very Pretty
BUT
Very Expensive

291fifth · September 20, 2015 6:24PM

I wonder what the highest dealer buy offer for that coin would be if it were to be walked around the floor at a major show?

ambro51 · September 20, 2015 10:01PM

Silly, isn't it? People break their backs in minimum wage jobs and children go hungry while "pretty" coins sell for thousands. It's things like this that make me ashamed to be a coin collector.

JJSingleton · September 20, 2015 10:06PM

GreatCollections is really bringing some strong dollars for toners as of late. I asked this question in a similar previous post and never got an answer so let's try again...

Does GreatCollections have lot viewing for their auctions? Or are these bidders placing bids on images only?

oih82w8 · September 20, 2015 10:10PM

Nice coin, but...not that nice.

PQueue · September 20, 2015 10:14PM

Anyway you look at it, simply a widget.

ianrussell · September 20, 2015 10:17PM

<< GreatCollections is really bringing some strong dollars for toners as of late. I asked this question in a similar previous post and never got an answer so let's try again...

Does GreatCollections have lot viewing for their auctions? Or are these bidders placing bids on images only? >>

Yes, we do offer lot viewing by appointment and we also take highlights to coin shows we attend almost monthly.

- Ian

MrEureka · September 20, 2015 10:43PM

Silly, isn't it? People break their backs in minimum wage jobs and children go hungry while "pretty" coins sell for thousands. It's things like this that make me ashamed to be a coin collector.

I'm not quite sure how it's better for the poor when rich people collect ugly coins.

mercurydimeguy · September 20, 2015 10:50PM

I suspect there are a few collectors going after the same lots in these major auctions. It's a bit of a bubble that some might get entrapped by, because one day these few collectors might get bored and an owner of one of these things at $2k is going to watch it sell for $250. Now that owner might not care, but the bubble will burst. Every bubble has historically burst, it's just a matter of when not if.

Meanwhile, if you have the means and the gumption, buy what you like

PS. Edited to add: I might now get my book of toners re-slabbed and sell them. It seems like the market is paying big $$ premiums for them.

MrEureka · September 20, 2015 11:05PM

suspect there are a few collectors going after the same lots in these major auctions. It's a bit of a bubble that some might get entrapped by, because one day these few collectors might get bored and an owner of one of these things at $2k is going to watch it sell for $250. Now that owner might not care, but the bubble will burst. Every bubble has historically burst, it's just a matter of when not if.

I wouldn't call the toner market a bubble. Bubbles are what you get when people invest based on the upward momentum of a market, and not based on any concept of value. (With coins, a "concept of value" might be based on auction records, personal taste, relative value, etc.) And I don't think that's what's happening with toners.

In my opinion, coins like the one in the OP are vastly overvalued at present, so I expect them to dramatically lag the market for the foreseeable future. But I don't know that they will correct quickly, because it's not a bubble.

JBN · September 20, 2015 11:05PM

<< Silly, isn't it? People break their backs in minimum wage jobs and children go hungry while "pretty" coins sell for thousands. It's things like this that make me ashamed to be a coin collector. >>

What an utterly nasty comment. Shame on you.

Congratulations to the new owner.

Condolences to the underbidder.

Eye appeal does equate to additional procurement costs in our (well, everyone except the cited poster's) hobby.

NickDanger · September 20, 2015 11:07PM

<< I suspect there are a few collectors going after the same lots in these major auctions. It's a bit of a bubble that some might get entrapped by, because one day these few collectors might get bored and an owner of one of these things at $2k is going to watch it sell for $250. Now that owner might not care, but the bubble will burst. Every bubble has historically burst, it's just a matter of when not if.

Meanwhile, if you have the means and the gumption, buy what you like

PS. Edited to add: I might now get my book of toners re-slabbed and sell them. It seems like the market is paying big $$ premiums for them. >>

Decades ago, when I started collecting, toned coins were dipped.
Now toning is prized.
Go figure!

roadrunner · September 20, 2015 11:10PM

GC is getting to be "THE" place to sell Morgan toners. Seems 40X generic value is getting to be more frequent when it comes to toners in MS63-67.

Goldbully · September 20, 2015 11:18PM

Beautiful Morgan....WTG GC

VERY $$$$

Broadstruck · September 20, 2015 11:46PM

25 years ago I sold Julian a raw toned Peace $1 like this which was about MS62. I had written something to the sorts of "The overall beauty vastly exceeds any chatter & marks" on the cardboard insert of the flip before attending the show. He paid me the money I needed and we had a good laugh about the added comment.

rhedden · September 20, 2015 11:56PM

I actually like rainbow crescent toners better than this kind of coin. The market clearly does not agree with me.

291fifth · September 20, 2015 11:59PM

This is an ultra-common date Morgan that is usually found very well struck and very often in grades well above MS-63. Would you be willing to tie up about $2500 in a coin like the one under discussion?

rhedden · September 21, 2015 12:12AM

<< This is an ultra-common date Morgan that is usually found very well struck and very often in grades well above MS-63. Would you be willing to tie up about $2500 in a coin like the one under discussion? >>

Honestly, I wouldn't pay $66 for the coin. I don't even like the toning that much, and it's got an awful lot of marks for a 63. Now I'm probably going to get a lecture on how passionate toner fans are about certain colors (green, purple). That's fine, but count me out.

Broadstruck · September 21, 2015 12:18AM

I like the reverse a lot better then the obverse

keyman64 · September 21, 2015 12:23AM

Yup, the reverse looks like a MS66 coin.

keyman64 · September 21, 2015 12:26AM

Here is my PCGS MS63 CAC Reverse Toned Example if someone wants to compare contact marks.
Yes, obverse toners sell for much much more! Yes, strong green and purple toned examples sell for much much more.

Broadstruck · September 21, 2015 12:27AM

<< Yup, the reverse looks like a MS66 coin. >>

Yeah the reverse is very attractive without any visual distractions

asheland · September 21, 2015 1:21AM

Beautiful toning on that one for sure!

LanceNewmanOCC · September 21, 2015 1:24AM

.
sounds low considering recent events...
.

mercurydimeguy · September 21, 2015 1:36AM

<< I wouldn't call the toner market a bubble. Bubbles are what you get when people invest based on the upward momentum of a market, and not based on any concept of value. (With coins, a "concept of value" might be based on auction records, personal taste, relative value, etc.) And I don't think that's what's happening with toners. In my opinion, coins like the one in the OP are vastly overvalued at present, so I expect them to dramatically lag the market for the foreseeable future. But I don't know that they will correct quickly, because it's not a bubble. >>

Andy I love your view of the world, truly my friend, especially the personal definitions you ascribe to certain phenomenon...but whether you or me define a "bubble" as X or Y, it is irrelevant, because in terms of an economic definition, it's a bubble (see below).

The problem with bubbles, is the vast majority doesn't believe there is one until it bursts like nearly ever single time in our history, Mortgage crisis being the last bubble...for nearly a decade people said it wasn't a bubble, some made money on the way up, but the ones who knew it was and shorted the market became billionaires.

Anyhow, definition of a bubble...not according to mercurydimeguy, but according to people a lot smarter. We may disagree, but I believe there is a "toner" bubble...time will tell

Definition of "bubble"

1. An economic cycle characterized by rapid expansion followed by a contraction.

2. A surge in prices, usually in a particular sector, followed by a drastic drop in prices as a massive selloff occurs.

3. A theory that prices rise above their true value and will continue to do so until prices go into free-fall and the bubble bursts.

More about "bubbles"

Bubbles form in economies, securities, stock markets and many other business sectors because of a change in the way the market players conduct business. This can be a real change, as occurred in the bubble economy of Japan in the 1980s when banks were partially deregulated, or a paradigm shift, as happened during the dotcom boom in the late '90s and early 2000s. During the boom people bought tech stocks at high prices, believing they could sell them at a higher price until confidence was lost and a large market correction, or crash, occurs. Bubbles in markets and economies cause resources to be transferred to other areas of growth. At the end of a bubble, resources are moved again, causing prices to deflate. Thus, there is little long-term return on those assets.

ambro51 · September 21, 2015 1:39AM

I personally think this toning is the result of workers moving these heavy bags urinating on them.

MrEureka · September 21, 2015 2:06AM

Anyhow, definition of a bubble...not according to mercurydimeguy, but according to people a lot smarter.

That's a pretty sloppy "definition". We'll have to debate this over a pitcher of beer one day. That, or move the conversation to an economics forum.

Unknown · September 21, 2015 2:07AM

This content has been removed.

blu62vette · September 21, 2015 2:18AM

<< I personally think this toning is the result of workers moving these heavy bags urinating on them. >>

Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed today? You don't have to like the coin or price but obviously others do.

The blazing toners have been doing very well recently.

Broadstruck · September 21, 2015 2:26AM

<< I personally think this toning is the result of workers moving these heavy bags urinating on them. >>

No it was never Mint Employees

Some of the GSA bagged toners have liquid type regions within the toning progression as it was believed rodents urinated on the bags.

I think I've only ever seen one NGC GSA that had a wet or watery look from questionable mouse or rat pee

pocketpiececommems · September 21, 2015 2:27AM

Buy what you like if you've got the money for it. Most people here will never buy a 1913 Liberty Nickel.

braddick · September 21, 2015 3:15AM

Ironically, the OP's avatar is a $66. coin yet I bet it sells for multiples over that...

keyman64 · September 21, 2015 3:43AM

<< Ironically, the OP's avatar is a $66. coin yet I bet it sells for multiples over that... >>

Yup, $52 coin sold for almost $1,200.

Well done on your comparison! I should change my avatar one day.

golden · September 21, 2015 4:05AM

<< I wonder what the highest dealer buy offer for that coin would be if it were to be walked around the floor at a major show? >>

ambro51 · September 21, 2015 5:05AM

Im just stating my theory. Thes bags were probably moved stacked and stored many times. 19th century men were not too picky where they took a leak. No doubt they were under guard doing this hard work and unlikely to get a "hall pass" to go to the little boys room. I think this is why toning is mostly one sided on these... This toning isn't an act of God it's the result of random localized contamination of a canvas coin bag by an identical strongly reactive liquid possessed by people in contact with these bags during their storage during various eras in different location. ie.: Pee

braddick · September 21, 2015 5:10AM

<< 

<< Ironically, the OP's avatar is a $66. coin yet I bet it sells for multiples over that... >>

Yup, $52 coin sold for almost $1,200.

Well done on your comparison! I should change my avatar one day.

>>

Many, many of the coins within my collection are "$66." coins that I too have paid dearly for!
We should start a club. Make up jackets.

telephoto1 · September 23, 2015 5:21AM

<>

No dealer would pay $2500 for that coin or close, unless it was for his personal toner collection.
This is an example of two or three toner fanatics with auction fever determined to own the piece.
Great outcome for GC and the consignor; less so for the new owner when it comes time to liquidate.

keyman64 · September 23, 2015 5:28AM

<< 

<< 

<< Ironically, the OP's avatar is a $66. coin yet I bet it sells for multiples over that... >>

Yup, $52 coin sold for almost $1,200.

Well done on your comparison! I should change my avatar one day.

>>

Many, many of the coins within my collection are "$66." coins that I too have paid dearly for!
We should start a club. Make up jackets. >>

Thankfully, I have been the one to Cherrypick them all and then sell them for mad money.

Lucanus · September 23, 2015 6:11AM

Congratulations to the new owner.

Condolences to the underbidder.

I agree, only switch the congratulations and condolences.

Doug

winky · September 23, 2015 6:28AM

Very pretty but way too much money.

DollarAfterDollar · September 23, 2015 6:41AM

There's no mystery here, the coin has outstanding toning. You can walk a major coin show for hours and be lucky to find just one with this unusual toning, good luck with the price. Frankly I'd prefer a higher grade than MS 63 (CAC not withstanding) if I were the buyer but it suits the 3 qualifiers:

1) it's an Unc coin
2) it's toning is appealing
3) it would be difficult and expensive to find one better.

These are rare and it's unlikely there are new ones like this to be found in the years to come. It is what it is.

AMRC · September 23, 2015 6:43AM

It makes buying these coins, as a dealer, very difficult.

coinbuf · September 23, 2015 7:10AM

I have never been or will be a fan of coins like this, almost cartoonish and very unattractive to me. So from my perspective I could easily find many other things to buy/do with that much money, however if the buyer is happy then great. At some point the tide will turn and coins like this will fall out of favor and there will be some left holding the bag (so to speak), trends and tastes change and nothing stays on top forever.

A $66 Coin Sells for about $2,500 including fees.

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