This predates my collecting but I have buddies that talk about common date graded Morgans and Peace dollars being 400bucks in 64 and higher for 65s? As part of a grouping of coins that could be a vehicle that was traded on the stock market? Who here knows how that story went? I know of a guy that's still buried in this stuff from that time period. Late 80s eRly 90s? Thanks
<< <i>Back in the 1960s and early '70s, the 1960 Small Date Proof cent carried a price of $50.00, in 1960s and '70s dollars. That was some pretty serious money when a decent paying job brought in $100 to $150 a week.
Today, what is Gem Proof 1960 Small Date cent worth? The 2016 Red Book says 15 bucks. >>
To put the 60's and 70's in perspective, how much were common double eagles and BU bags of 1881-S Morgans?
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
Successful, problem free and pleasant transactions with: illini420, coinguy1, weather11am,wayneherndon,wondercoin,Topdollarpaid,Julian, bishdigg,seateddime, peicesofme,ajia,CoinRaritiesOnline,savoyspecial,Boom, TorinoCobra71, ModernCoinMart, WTCG, slinc, Patches, Gerard, pocketpiececommems, BigJohnD, RickMilauskas, mirabella, Smittys, LeeG, TomB, DeusExMachina, tydye
<< <i>This predates my collecting but I have buddies that talk about common date graded Morgans and Peace dollars being 400bucks in 64 and higher for 65s? As part of a grouping of coins that could be a vehicle that was traded on the stock market? Who here knows how that story went? I know of a guy that's still buried in this stuff from that time period. Late 80s eRly 90s? Thanks >>
In the late 80's and early 90's there were several "investment" deals that offered Morgan Dollars to individuals who had little or no numismatic knowledge. Many of these firms self-slabbed their coins. A business associate of mine bought into one of these "investment" plans and ended up with about 30 of those "self-slabbed" Morgans. Around 1993 he asked me to evaluate what he had bought, each coin apparently costing $300-$400. I had the unfortunate task of informing him that the coins he bought were probably worth no more than $30-$40 each. The coins appeared to be what are referred to as commercial uncs. and were "slabbed" in cardboard holders that were sealed in PVC plastic.
By this time the "investment company" that sold him the coins was long gone.
<< <i>I guess the low mintage 2009 PD Jefferson nickel rolls can be compared to the 1950-D. But the big difference between those two years, for 2009, your highest quality collector coins are in the mint sets, not the rolls. And they made 784,614 coins each of the P and D for the mint sets. Just another big loser investment unfolding before everyone's eyes as they learn how the US Mint used a higher coining pressure to make better coins for the mint sets.
And here's a little bit of info that may be an eye opener for some; but when the US Mint change the way they made coins, perfecting the coins for all denominations for the mint sets back in 2005, all the modern series technically came to an end in 2004. It's nothing today to go out and add a MS68, MS69 Jefferson nickel or Kennedy half to your collection after 2004. There's no hunt in it. Those coins dated 2005 to date 2015 are there if you want them for as little as 2X face value unless you want them in plastic or you're bent on getting a MS70 label. Have fun with that when there's such a minuscule difference between a MS69 and MS70. Even the MS70's show some flaws. >>
The coins in the 2005 to 2010 mint sets are not considered to be regular uncirculated strikes. They are generally referred to as "satin finish" and are given special designations when slabbed by the TPGs. Regular circulation strikes in the higher grades fetch far more money than "satin finish" coins of the same dates from the mint sets. On eBay a 2009-D circulation-strike nickel fetched $100 in MS66FS, while a pair of 2009-PD "satin finish" nickels two grades higher (SP68FS) brought only $50 on a "best offer".
Beginning in 2011 the "satin finish" coins were discontinued, and regular circulation strikes were once again placed in the mint sets.
<< <i>This predates my collecting but I have buddies that talk about common date graded Morgans and Peace dollars being 400bucks in 64 and higher for 65s? As part of a grouping of coins that could be a vehicle that was traded on the stock market? Who here knows how that story went? I know of a guy that's still buried in this stuff from that time period. Late 80s eRly 90s? Thanks >>
In the late 80's and early 90's there were several "investment" deals that offered Morgan Dollars to individuals who had little or no numismatic knowledge. Many of these firms self-slabbed their coins. A business associate of mine bought into one of these "investment" plans and ended up with about 30 of those "self-slabbed" Morgans. Around 1993 he asked me to evaluate what he had bought, each coin apparently costing $300-$400. I had the unfortunate task of informing him that the coins he bought were probably worth no more than $30-$40 each. The coins appeared to be what are referred to as commercial uncs. and were "slabbed" in cardboard holders that were sealed in PVC plastic.
By this time the "investment company" that sold him the coins was long gone. >>
Thanks for your response. I was under the impression that these investment deals had raised the prices for these coins for everybody, not just for a few unfortunate ones that got caught up in a bad deal. I'm sure these bad deals are still around today and not really what this thread is about, so mine isn't the best example I see.
<< <i>This predates my collecting but I have buddies that talk about common date graded Morgans and Peace dollars being 400bucks in 64 and higher for 65s? As part of a grouping of coins that could be a vehicle that was traded on the stock market? Who here knows how that story went? I know of a guy that's still buried in this stuff from that time period. Late 80s eRly 90s? Thanks >>
In the late 80's and early 90's there were several "investment" deals that offered Morgan Dollars to individuals who had little or no numismatic knowledge. Many of these firms self-slabbed their coins. A business associate of mine bought into one of these "investment" plans and ended up with about 30 of those "self-slabbed" Morgans. Around 1993 he asked me to evaluate what he had bought, each coin apparently costing $300-$400. I had the unfortunate task of informing him that the coins he bought were probably worth no more than $30-$40 each. The coins appeared to be what are referred to as commercial uncs. and were "slabbed" in cardboard holders that were sealed in PVC plastic.
By this time the "investment company" that sold him the coins was long gone. >>
Thanks for your response. I was under the impression that these investment deals had raised the prices for these coins for everybody, not just for a few unfortunate ones that got caught up in a bad deal. I'm sure these bad deals are still around today and not really what this thread is about, so mine isn't the best example I see. >>
The prices for correctly graded Morgans that were slabbed by the major companies were very high for everyone at that time. This led to the rise of "investment companies" that touted the value of Morgans to the general public and then delivered inferior coins at greatly inflated prices. The target for these "investment companies" was people who knew little about coin collecting, not seasoned collectors.
<< <i>I guess the low mintage 2009 PD Jefferson nickel rolls can be compared to the 1950-D. But the big difference between those two years, for 2009, your highest quality collector coins are in the mint sets, not the rolls. And they made 784,614 coins each of the P and D for the mint sets. Just another big loser investment unfolding before everyone's eyes as they learn how the US Mint used a higher coining pressure to make better coins for the mint sets.
And here's a little bit of info that may be an eye opener for some; but when the US Mint change the way they made coins, perfecting the coins for all denominations for the mint sets back in 2005, all the modern series technically came to an end in 2004. It's nothing today to go out and add a MS68, MS69 Jefferson nickel or Kennedy half to your collection after 2004. There's no hunt in it. Those coins dated 2005 to date 2015 are there if you want them for as little as 2X face value unless you want them in plastic or you're bent on getting a MS70 label. Have fun with that when there's such a minuscule difference between a MS69 and MS70. Even the MS70's show some flaws. >>
The coins in the 2005 to 2010 mint sets are not considered to be regular uncirculated strikes. They are generally referred to as "satin finish" and are given special designations when slabbed by the TPGs. Regular circulation strikes in the higher grades fetch far more money than "satin finish" coins of the same dates from the mint sets. On eBay a 2009-D circulation-strike nickel fetched $100 in MS66FS, while a pair of 2009-PD "satin finish" nickels two grades higher (SP68FS) brought only $50 on a "best offer". >>
But both the circulation-strike nickel and the "satin finish" nickels all came from the same working dies. The early strikes went into the mint sets.
<< <i>Beginning in 2011 the "satin finish" coins were discontinued, and regular circulation strikes were once again placed in the mint sets. >>
While the "satin finish" coins were discontinued, they're still using higher coining pressure during the early stages of the working dies to stamp the coins for the mint sets.
As working dies wear down, the design becomes less detailed and since the "satin finish" effect is a part of the design, it too begins to fade or appears less evident in the fields of the coin but yet can still be observed on the coin. And it doesn't help that there is less pressure being applied during the striking of the circulating coins. But being what it is, circulating coins are just that, coins made for commerce. The hair strands of Jefferson's bangs will appear melded together on the coins made from circulation, another telltale detail that the coin is an inferior strike.
But here's a question for you, that is if you have come to a better understanding on my point above, when that MS66FS coin was submitted, how would the grader know from where the coin came from, a roll or a mint set? A coin from a mint set is easy, just leave it in the mint packaging. But for a coin made for circulation, one would need to submit the entire unopened roll to make the submission legitimate.
And here's another, do you think the "satin finish" mint set coins are included in the total mintage of production for the years 2005 to 2010? They are because there's nothing that special about them to give them a separate mintage number. Proof coins have a separate mintage but not for coins made with a "satin finish". Why? Because only slightly higher pressure was applied and special handling care of the mint set coins are the only two things that separate the circulating coins from the early strikes that went into the mint sets.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
And here's another, do you think the "satin finish" mint set coins are included in the total mintage of production for the years 2005 to 2010? They are because there's nothing that special about them to give them a separate mintage number. Proof coins have a separate mintage but not for coins made with a "satin finish". Why? Because only slightly higher pressure was applied and special handling care of the mint set coins are the only two things that separate the circulating coins from the early strikes that went into the mint sets.
>>
Before 1999 mint set coinage was reported as a part of total production figures but since then they are reported separately.
Since 1965 mint set coins have been struck under higher than normal pressure with new dies on vertical presses. Finding Gems in mint sets is like shooting fish in a bar- rel compared to finding them in BU rolls.
"Satin Finish" coins were more than just early strikes at higher pressure. According to this article, "The frosted look was achieved by **burnishing the coin blanks** before striking them with dies that had been sand-blasted." The difference is especially noticeable on Denver Mint issues, whose circulation strikes tend to have a more proof-like appearance than those from Philadelphia.
The burnishing is likely part of the special coining process that helps give the mint set coins their satin finish and now brilliant finish in the US Mint's definition of the term "uncirculated" in their glossary. They likely struck a few thousands extra coins that weren't used for mint sets but were thrown in with the circulating coins.
The term "uncirculated" may have three different meanings when applied to a coin.
First, it can refer to the particular manufacturing process by which a coin is made. Second, it can be used as a grade when referring to a coin's degree of preservation and quality of the strike. Or third, "uncirculated" can point to the fact that a coin has not been used in everyday commerce.
At the United States Mint, we use the term uncirculated when referring to the special coining process used to make the coin, which gives it a satin finish. Uncirculated coins are manufactured using the same process as circulating coins, but with quality enhancements such as slightly higher coining force, early strikes from dies, special cleaning after stamping, and special packaging. Uncirculated coins may vary to some degree because of blemishes, toning, or slight imperfections.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
Comments
ing.
A collection of silver art bars?
No thanks. I'm a bit more interested in a collection of nice Chinese made counterfeits.
CC
<< <i>Back in the 1960s and early '70s, the 1960 Small Date Proof cent carried a price of $50.00, in 1960s and '70s dollars. That was some pretty serious money when a decent paying job brought in $100 to $150 a week.
Today, what is Gem Proof 1960 Small Date cent worth? The 2016 Red Book says 15 bucks.
To put the 60's and 70's in perspective, how much were common double eagles and BU bags of 1881-S Morgans?
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
Successful, problem free and pleasant transactions with: illini420, coinguy1, weather11am,wayneherndon,wondercoin,Topdollarpaid,Julian, bishdigg,seateddime, peicesofme,ajia,CoinRaritiesOnline,savoyspecial,Boom, TorinoCobra71, ModernCoinMart, WTCG, slinc, Patches, Gerard, pocketpiececommems, BigJohnD, RickMilauskas, mirabella, Smittys, LeeG, TomB, DeusExMachina, tydye
<< <i>This predates my collecting but I have buddies that talk about common date graded Morgans and Peace dollars being 400bucks in 64 and higher for 65s? As part of a grouping of coins that could be a vehicle that was traded on the stock market? Who here knows how that story went? I know of a guy that's still buried in this stuff from that time period. Late 80s eRly 90s? Thanks >>
In the late 80's and early 90's there were several "investment" deals that offered Morgan Dollars to individuals who had little or no numismatic knowledge. Many of these firms self-slabbed their coins. A business associate of mine bought into one of these "investment" plans and ended up with about 30 of those "self-slabbed" Morgans. Around 1993 he asked me to evaluate what he had bought, each coin apparently costing $300-$400. I had the unfortunate task of informing him that the coins he bought were probably worth no more than $30-$40 each. The coins appeared to be what are referred to as commercial uncs. and were "slabbed" in cardboard holders that were sealed in PVC plastic.
By this time the "investment company" that sold him the coins was long gone.
<< <i>I guess the low mintage 2009 PD Jefferson nickel rolls can be compared to the 1950-D. But the big difference between those two years, for 2009, your highest quality collector coins are in the mint sets, not the rolls. And they made 784,614 coins each of the P and D for the mint sets. Just another big loser investment unfolding before everyone's eyes as they learn how the US Mint used a higher coining pressure to make better coins for the mint sets.
And here's a little bit of info that may be an eye opener for some; but when the US Mint change the way they made coins, perfecting the coins for all denominations for the mint sets back in 2005, all the modern series technically came to an end in 2004. It's nothing today to go out and add a MS68, MS69 Jefferson nickel or Kennedy half to your collection after 2004. There's no hunt in it. Those coins dated 2005 to date 2015 are there if you want them for as little as 2X face value unless you want them in plastic or you're bent on getting a MS70 label. Have fun with that when there's such a minuscule difference between a MS69 and MS70. Even the MS70's show some flaws. >>
The coins in the 2005 to 2010 mint sets are not considered to be regular uncirculated strikes. They are generally referred to as "satin finish" and are given special designations when slabbed by the TPGs. Regular circulation strikes in the higher grades fetch far more money than "satin finish" coins of the same dates from the mint sets. On eBay a 2009-D circulation-strike nickel fetched $100 in MS66FS, while a pair of 2009-PD "satin finish" nickels two grades higher (SP68FS) brought only $50 on a "best offer".
Beginning in 2011 the "satin finish" coins were discontinued, and regular circulation strikes were once again placed in the mint sets.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>
<< <i>This predates my collecting but I have buddies that talk about common date graded Morgans and Peace dollars being 400bucks in 64 and higher for 65s? As part of a grouping of coins that could be a vehicle that was traded on the stock market? Who here knows how that story went? I know of a guy that's still buried in this stuff from that time period. Late 80s eRly 90s? Thanks >>
In the late 80's and early 90's there were several "investment" deals that offered Morgan Dollars to individuals who had little or no numismatic knowledge. Many of these firms self-slabbed their coins. A business associate of mine bought into one of these "investment" plans and ended up with about 30 of those "self-slabbed" Morgans. Around 1993 he asked me to evaluate what he had bought, each coin apparently costing $300-$400. I had the unfortunate task of informing him that the coins he bought were probably worth no more than $30-$40 each. The coins appeared to be what are referred to as commercial uncs. and were "slabbed" in cardboard holders that were sealed in PVC plastic.
By this time the "investment company" that sold him the coins was long gone. >>
Thanks for your response. I was under the impression that these investment deals had raised the prices for these coins for everybody, not just for a few unfortunate ones that got caught up in a bad deal. I'm sure these bad deals are still around today and not really what this thread is about, so mine isn't the best example I see.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>This predates my collecting but I have buddies that talk about common date graded Morgans and Peace dollars being 400bucks in 64 and higher for 65s? As part of a grouping of coins that could be a vehicle that was traded on the stock market? Who here knows how that story went? I know of a guy that's still buried in this stuff from that time period. Late 80s eRly 90s? Thanks >>
In the late 80's and early 90's there were several "investment" deals that offered Morgan Dollars to individuals who had little or no numismatic knowledge. Many of these firms self-slabbed their coins. A business associate of mine bought into one of these "investment" plans and ended up with about 30 of those "self-slabbed" Morgans. Around 1993 he asked me to evaluate what he had bought, each coin apparently costing $300-$400. I had the unfortunate task of informing him that the coins he bought were probably worth no more than $30-$40 each. The coins appeared to be what are referred to as commercial uncs. and were "slabbed" in cardboard holders that were sealed in PVC plastic.
By this time the "investment company" that sold him the coins was long gone. >>
Thanks for your response. I was under the impression that these investment deals had raised the prices for these coins for everybody, not just for a few unfortunate ones that got caught up in a bad deal. I'm sure these bad deals are still around today and not really what this thread is about, so mine isn't the best example I see. >>
The prices for correctly graded Morgans that were slabbed by the major companies were very high for everyone at that time. This led to the rise of "investment companies" that touted the value of Morgans to the general public and then delivered inferior coins at greatly inflated prices. The target for these "investment companies" was people who knew little about coin collecting, not seasoned collectors.
<< <i>
<< <i>I guess the low mintage 2009 PD Jefferson nickel rolls can be compared to the 1950-D. But the big difference between those two years, for 2009, your highest quality collector coins are in the mint sets, not the rolls. And they made 784,614 coins each of the P and D for the mint sets. Just another big loser investment unfolding before everyone's eyes as they learn how the US Mint used a higher coining pressure to make better coins for the mint sets.
And here's a little bit of info that may be an eye opener for some; but when the US Mint change the way they made coins, perfecting the coins for all denominations for the mint sets back in 2005, all the modern series technically came to an end in 2004. It's nothing today to go out and add a MS68, MS69 Jefferson nickel or Kennedy half to your collection after 2004. There's no hunt in it. Those coins dated 2005 to date 2015 are there if you want them for as little as 2X face value unless you want them in plastic or you're bent on getting a MS70 label. Have fun with that when there's such a minuscule difference between a MS69 and MS70. Even the MS70's show some flaws. >>
The coins in the 2005 to 2010 mint sets are not considered to be regular uncirculated strikes. They are generally referred to as "satin finish" and are given special designations when slabbed by the TPGs. Regular circulation strikes in the higher grades fetch far more money than "satin finish" coins of the same dates from the mint sets. On eBay a 2009-D circulation-strike nickel fetched $100 in MS66FS, while a pair of 2009-PD "satin finish" nickels two grades higher (SP68FS) brought only $50 on a "best offer". >>
But both the circulation-strike nickel and the "satin finish" nickels all came from the same working dies. The early strikes went into the mint sets.
<< <i>Beginning in 2011 the "satin finish" coins were discontinued, and regular circulation strikes were once again placed in the mint sets. >>
While the "satin finish" coins were discontinued, they're still using higher coining pressure during the early stages of the working dies to stamp the coins for the mint sets.
As working dies wear down, the design becomes less detailed and since the "satin finish" effect is a part of the design, it too begins to fade or appears less evident in the fields of the coin but yet can still be observed on the coin. And it doesn't help that there is less pressure being applied during the striking of the circulating coins. But being what it is, circulating coins are just that, coins made for commerce. The hair strands of Jefferson's bangs will appear melded together on the coins made from circulation, another telltale detail that the coin is an inferior strike.
But here's a question for you, that is if you have come to a better understanding on my point above, when that MS66FS coin was submitted, how would the grader know from where the coin came from, a roll or a mint set? A coin from a mint set is easy, just leave it in the mint packaging. But for a coin made for circulation, one would need to submit the entire unopened roll to make the submission legitimate.
And here's another, do you think the "satin finish" mint set coins are included in the total mintage of production for the years 2005 to 2010? They are because there's nothing that special about them to give them a separate mintage number. Proof coins have a separate mintage but not for coins made with a "satin finish". Why? Because only slightly higher pressure was applied and special handling care of the mint set coins are the only two things that separate the circulating coins from the early strikes that went into the mint sets.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>
And here's another, do you think the "satin finish" mint set coins are included in the total mintage of production for the years 2005 to 2010? They are because there's nothing that special about them to give them a separate mintage number. Proof coins have a separate mintage but not for coins made with a "satin finish". Why? Because only slightly higher pressure was applied and special handling care of the mint set coins are the only two things that separate the circulating coins from the early strikes that went into the mint sets.
>>
Before 1999 mint set coinage was reported as a part of total production figures but
since then they are reported separately.
Since 1965 mint set coins have been struck under higher than normal pressure with
new dies on vertical presses. Finding Gems in mint sets is like shooting fish in a bar-
rel compared to finding them in BU rolls.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
The term "uncirculated" may have three different meanings when applied to a coin.
First, it can refer to the particular manufacturing process by which a coin is made.
Second, it can be used as a grade when referring to a coin's degree of preservation and quality of the strike.
Or third, "uncirculated" can point to the fact that a coin has not been used in everyday commerce.
At the United States Mint, we use the term uncirculated when referring to the special coining process used to make the coin, which gives it a satin finish. Uncirculated coins are manufactured using the same process as circulating coins, but with quality enhancements such as slightly higher coining force, early strikes from dies, special cleaning after stamping, and special packaging. Uncirculated coins may vary to some degree because of blemishes, toning, or slight imperfections.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
BHNC #203