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CSA Cent Post Haseltine Pre Bashlow 19th Century "Unofficial Restrike" Newp
ambro51
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I'm rather Proud of this eBay NewP. It looks like I was the only one who knew what this is. What it is.....is an R8-R9 example of a mysterious striking of the CSA Cent using the chisel defaced Original Lovett dies, but without all the "work" done by AG Frank and Bashlow before preparing his 1961 dies. The Original Lovett coins (16) Haseltines 1874 restrikes (100 +-) and this Unofficial 19th Century mystery strike (2-4?) were all struck from the original die. ••••••. Main points which separate this from the Bashlow are the sharp detail on the lower bust edge and absence of many file cut lines on the reverse. Compare the 19th century piece with the Bashlow and note many differences. This IS a known coin mentioned in Corell and Levi's book, though dammit I cannot locate my copy and would appreciate anyone with a copy telling us what he wrote about it. So......What'cha Think? 
Here is the transfer made by AG Frank for Bashlow. Note the differences. 
Here is the transfer made by AG Frank for Bashlow. Note the differences. 0
Comments
<< <i>So......What'cha Think? >>
I think it looks pretty awesome! It's a cool part of the history and progression of these pieces. And pretty similar to your avatar coin
Do we have any idea who made it?
Does PCGS slab these yet? If not, will you get it slabbed ATS?
From The Numismatist March 1919...
Confederate Coinage: A Short-lived Dream
By Vanashree Samant
1861 Confederate Cent Silver Restrike
The South had always seen itself as a unique region of the United States because it possessed the "peculiar institution" of slavery, around which its society and economy had developed. In an attempt to preserve this way of life, Southerners had always supported states' rights and advocated nullification along with a strong plea to be left alone. During the antebellum period, the slightest infringement on states' rights was seen as the first step in a conspiracy to end slavery and destroy the Southern way of life.
When Lincoln won the 1860 election with only the support of the free states, the South was convinced that a Northern conspiracy existed against them. For Southerners it seemed likely that the Lincoln administration would not only halt the spread of slavery, but also endeavor to abolish it, and with that, end the Southern way of life. The cry for localism now became one for secession. South Carolina, a long-time supporter of Southern rights and slavery, was the first state to secede on December 20, 1860. By February 1, Alabama, Mississippi, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas had joined South Carolina.
The Southern states supported slavery and justified their secession with the constitutional theory that the Union was a compact among sovereign states from which a state could withdraw. Delegates from these Deep South states met in Montgomery, Alabama on February 4 to establish the Confederate States of America. Eleven days later, Jefferson Davis of Mississippi was elected to the post of President of this new nation.
Having always seen themselves as a unique region of the United States, the Southern states that had seceded now had the opportunity to assert their sovereignty and independence from the United States of America. Issuing a new Confederate currency would allow this new nation to establish its identity. The saga of the Confederate coinage reflects the shifting fortunes of the Civil War - the rise and fall of the Confederacy, the new nation's initial hopes and later its sudden realization that the four-year old nation would be coming to an end.
The monetary system of the Confederate States of America developed largely from the existing banking and credit systems of the South. Even though state and property banks were the centerpieces of the Southern banking system, most Southerners had little contact with them. Planters dealt with a third party who sold their goods, balanced their books, and made purchases for them. Such services were provided by a factor, usually a Northern or European merchant, at a percentage of the planter's sales. Small farmers established a similar factor system, with a local merchant serving as the factor. This system made the South economically a colony of the North, with even the local merchant relying on a stock of Northern commodities. Having been economically and commercially dependent on the North before the War, the South now planned to symbolically declare their independence from Northern capital by issuing their own coinage and taking fiscal matters into their own hands.
Yet oddly enough, the Confederate Government contacted the renowned Philadelphia jewelers, Bailey & Co. about a contract coinage. The firm, well connected with medalists and diesinkers, commissioned Robert Lovett Jr. for the job. Lovett planned for something uniform with the United States one-cent piece, weighing 4.67 grams and of the same size as the copper-nickel Indian cent. He prepared a die which had his signature design, a Liberty Head, on the obverse, surrounded by the words "Confederate States of America 1861." The reverse bore the inscription "1 cent" surrounded by a wreath of corn, cotton, maple, wheat and tobacco, and two barrels. At the beginning of the wreath lay a cotton bale signed "L." Although Lovett prepared dies for the one-cent pieces and struck twelve coins in copper-nickel, he never handed over the samples to Confederate officials for inspection. Fearing that the United States government might arrest him for assisting the enemy, he dropped the project and buried the dies and coins in his cellar. Even when the war was over, Lovett was reluctant to show them.
Although one-cent Confederate pieces exist, much of the history behind these coins is dubious. Interestingly enough, no documentary evidence exists that links these cents with the Confederacy. Numismatist Fred L. Reed 111, having read the entire Journal of the Confederate Congress, found a mention for an all-copper emergency coinage. However, there were no references to the names of either Bailey & Co. or of Lovett. Reed conjectures that the Confederate cent, rather than being a commissioned pattern, was a story invented after the war by Captain John Haseltine, who claimed to have purchased the dies from Lovett and produced restrikes. Perhaps Haseltine created the story to ensure the sales of his three gold, five silver, and fifty-five copper restrikes of the Confederate cent. Despite the doubts about the authenticity of Lovett and his coin, the one-cent piece definitely captured what the Confederacy had in mind for itself: an independent nation where "Cotton is king" and liberty took the form of sovereignty of the states. But the one-cent piece never gave the Confederacy its chance to establish an identity or to declare its economic self-sufficiency.
Before the war, there had been three United States mints in the South located in New Orleans, Louisiana, Charlotte, North Carolina, and Dahlonega, Georgia. Although the branches in Charlotte and Dahlonega minted gold coins from 1838 to 1861, the one in New Orleans was the main Southern facility, busy with the production of large quantities of silver coins. In just the two months of 1861 that the mint was under United States' control, the New Orleans branch had produced 330,000 Seated Liberty half dollar pieces.
After Louisiana seceded from the Union on January 26, 1861, rebel forces plotted the seizure of the New Orleans Mint. The Secretary of the United States Treasury warned that "if anyone attempts to haul down the American flag, shoot him on the spot." Disregarding this command, the New Orleans Mint Superintendent, William A. Elmore resigned from federal employment, and the mint was taken over in the name of the State of Louisiana. Elmore and other mint employees, such as Treasurer A. J. Guirot, Assayer Howard Millspaugh, and Melter/Refiner Dr. M.F. Bozano, retained their former jobs after swearing allegiance to the Confederacy. Georgia, following Louisiana's example, transferred its mint over to the central government before the first shots of the civil war were heard. However, North Carolina, which did not secede until May 20, 1861, turned over its mint almost a month later on June 27.
From the onset of the war, the South was fiscally handicapped because it lacked a treasury and financial policy based on experience. Although everything had to be improvised, it compensated for its lack of experience with spirit and patriotic zeal. After Southern forces took over the New Orleans Mint, they confiscated the bullion kept by the mint at a state bank depository and minting continued as before using union dies. 1,240,000 half dollars and 9,750 double eagles were minted in February 1861 in the name of the State of Louisiana.
On March 6, 1861, before the New Orleans Mint was officially transferred to the Confederate government, Elmore had asked Christopher G. Memminger, the Confederate Treasury Secretary, if he should begin preparing for a Confederate coinage before the transfer of bullion. The same day, the Provisional Congress ordered that all mints remain open and that dies be prepared for a new coin. The immediate response of the Confederate government reflects the young nation's initial excitement and its desire to create a unique, distinguishable identity for itself without delay. With its own monetary system, the Confederacy could immediately start trading with powerful European nations such as Britain and France, letting them know that the Confederate States of America was not a measly insurgent faction but a solid, strong, independent nation.
On March 7, 1861, the Louisiana government had its Treasurer, Anthony J. Guirot, transfer the New Orleans Mint along with its bullion over to the Confederate government. The bullion of the New Orleans Mint-now renamed the Confederate State Mint-formed the nucleus of the Confederate treasury funds, which were augmented by Southern banks. In March and April of this year, 962,633 half dollars and 2,991 double eagles were struck in the name of the Confederate States of America. Although most researchers claim that the appearance of these 1861-0 half dollars does not reveal the government under which they were struck, one die variety does exist. The "cracked Confederate obverse," containing a crack running from the coin's rim to Liberty's nose and passing near the seventh star, can be attributed to the Confederacy's control of the mint because this cracked die would later be used to produce four Confederate half dollar proofs.
Early in April 1861, Memminger approved of a design for the Confederate half dollar. No government engravers worked at the New Orleans Mint because prior to secession, the branch received dies produced by the Philadelphia Mint. Although lacking qualified engravers, the young, spirited Confederate government, eager to establish its identity and assert its autonomy and self-sufficiency, immediately employed August H.M. Patterson, a local, private engraver and diesinker to make the Confederate half dollar reverse die. Conrad Schmidt, foreman of the coining room, burnished the Confederate reverse die along with an 1861 United States obverse die, in a hurry to produce proof specimens for inspection by Confederate officials.
The hybrid design proposed that the usual United States' Seated Liberty adorn the obverse while the new Confederate coat of arms made its debut on the reverse. The obverse contained a seated representation of the Goddess of Liberty, surrounded by thirteen stars, representing the thirteen original colonies of America, or as chief coiner of the Confederacy Dr. B.F.Taylor stated, "from whence the Confederacy sprung."
On the bottom of the reverse, the denomination "HALF DOL." was written. Above this inscription lay the Confederate coat of arms, consisting of a central shield with seven stars and bars, representing the seven states that had seceded at that time. The shield was flanked by stalks of cotton and sugar cane in bloom. The interesting choice of flora represented the South's commitment to its cash crops and with it, the commitment to the labor system responsible for these crops' cultivation - slavery.
Over the shield loomed a liberty cap on a pole, reminiscent of U.S. copper cents of 1793-1796. By using a motif, which harkened back to the early days of the nation, the Confederacy expressed its belief that its form of government and the principles on which it was based were the same principles that the founding fathers had in mind for the nation. The concept of a small central government and the sovereignty of the states were ideas from which the Union had deviated, but the Confederacy had reinstated in their government. Although the Confederacy sought to distinguish itself from the United States, the proposed design did not vary much from that of United States' coinage. The similarity of design suggests that the Confederacy did not see itself as a radical, new faction but as the embodiment of the "more perfect union" which the constitution set out to achieve.
A distinctively designed Confederate obverse would have been created after the reverse had been approved. However, Memminger stated that coins were "a waste of means and money," because he feared that there would not be enough bullion to produce circulating coinage, and that most of the coins produced would be exported and melted outside the nation. With these thoughts in mind, Memminger ordered that the New Orleans Mint suspend its operations.
But just before minting was halted, workers at New Orleans struck four proof pieces bearing the Confederate reverse and the cracked United States 1861 obverse. Weighing 12.44 grams and having a 90% silver and 10% copper alloy, the four coins met U.S. Mint standards for a silver half dollar. The crack, which was on the obverse of some 1861-0 half dollars minted under the Confederacy, had now expanded, stretching between Liberty's foot, the coin's rim, and adjacent stars. Even the reverse bore a small crack through the base of the inscription "HALF DOL." The four proof samples were presented as gifts to Dr. B. F. Taylor, chief coiner of the Confederate States of America, Dr. John Leonard Riddle of Louisiana, often misreported as Professor Biddle, Dr. E. Ames of New Orleans, and Memminger himself, who later passed it along to President Jefferson Davis for his approval.
After minting only four pieces, the Confederate State mint ceased production on April 30, 1861. There were slim chances that production would be resumed in the near future, and even if it did, Memminger wanted to mint the minimal amount of coins required for the Confederacy's internal commerce. No further plans were made for the Confederate half dollar's obverse. Rather early on in its history, the Confederacy was forced to set aside its grand plans for a Confederate coinage and its hope of receiving immediate recognition and support from Britain and France, then dominant powers. Britain, having toyed with the notion of recognizing the Confederacy, quickly gave up the idea, fearing that indirect support of slavery would raise a public outcry. Had Confederate coinage prevailed and displayed any inherent strength; the prospect of trade might have swayed Britain and France to consider intervention in American politics.
Lacking any significant quantity of bullion, the Confederacy's attempt at coinage seemed impractical. From the onset of the war, the economic drawbacks of the South began to eat away at its future plans, giving an early death to the Confederacy's dream of economic and political independence through a coinage. In April 1861, Memminger committed the Confederate government to a policy of paper currency in order to save bullion from local use and to allow it to be employed elsewhere. On May 3, Memminger allowed Governor Thomas O. Moore of Louisiana to use the New Orleans Mint's copper for percussion caps for his soldiers' guns.
Although the main Southern facility had ceased production, the desire to establish some sort of Southern metallic currency never died out. An alternative to coinage that was discussed was a copper token coinage. Elmore told Memminger that dies could be ordered at an average cost of one hundred dollars to strike copper tokens in denominations of one, five, and twenty-five cents. But both houses of the Confederate Congress did not approve the bill, and after October 13, 1862, they never again attempted to establish a system of token coinage.
The two other Confederate mints never had the opportunity to serve their purpose under the Confederate government because of the short supply of bullion. John H. Gibbon, the Assayer of the Charlotte Mint, suggested to the North Carolina Governor John W. Ellis, that their gold be used to make 1,000 five-dollar gold pieces bearing a unique state design. Nothing ever came from this suggestion since the Governor never took it seriously.
All mints were eventually converted into assay offices. On August 24, 1861, the Confederate Congress voted to keep the mints at Charlotte and Dahlonega open as assay offices. On January 27, 1862, the New Orleans Mint received the same fate as its sister mints. Only the Dahlonega Mint remained open during most of the war, actually serving as an assay office. The quantities of precious metals that passed through Dahlonega were never very large, with the largest coming from New Orleans in the 3rd quarter of 1862 to avoid Union capture. Melter/Refiner Dr. Bozano, even after having sworn allegiance to the Confederacy, worked as a Union spy and graciously offered to stand guard at the closed New Orleans Mint. He did so until Union troops under Farragut captured the city in 1862, but he was unable to prevent the bullion from leaving the mint. Safely aboard the rebel ship, Star of the West, the bullion made its way to Dahlonega. Once New Orleans had been captured and the main Southern facility passed out of Confederate hands, the realization occurred to the Southerners that a stable and effective Confederate coinage was unlikely to materialize.
While the first two years of the war were predominantly in the Confederacy's favor, fortunes began changing in 1863. 1n that year, the South lost its brilliant general, Stonewall Jackson, shot by one of his own men at Chancellorsville, suffered a bloody Confederate loss at Gettysburg, and saw Vicksburg along the Mississippi fall into the hands of the Union troops under Grant. With the sudden turn of events against the South's favor, the eventual outcome of the war became clearly outlined.
Seeing that its military successes were low in number while inflation was running high, the Confederacy realized that it could use some help and turned once again to what it believed was its ally nation across the Atlantic. Knowing that industrialized Britain relied on Southern cotton for its textile mills, the South hoped that a threat to their cotton supply would force the British into an alliance with the South. With the intent of securing an overseas ally, the deferred dream of a Confederate coinage was resuscitated. On January 22, 1863, Judah P. Benjamin, the Confederate Secretary of State proposed issuing a five-dollar gold coin, called a "cavalier," of the exact value of the English gold sovereign. This coin, part of a series that included ten and twenty gold dollar pieces, called double and quadruple cavaliers respectively, would facilitate direct commerce with Europe rather than the United States.
Although the South saw the tide was turning against them, they did not forfeit the dream of existing as an independent and self-sufficient nation. Even the proposed name for the coin, cavalier, captured what they believed was the spirit of the Southerner - gracious, courteous, and chivalrous. Southerners believed that such qualities were bred by their agrarian, virtuous way of life, which relied on slavery. The proposed coin revealed the South's commitment to preserving this way of life along with its institution of slavery even as the war was nearing its close.
The South's hand at "King Cotton" diplomacy failed since Britain was able to purchase large quantities of cotton from Egypt and India. To add to the new nation's problems, inflation was continually on the rise, while morale was ebbing. The fixed prices established by the Confederate government required frequent revision. From May 1863 to March 1865, the fixed price of bacon went from $1 to $4 a pound, and a bushel of beans went from $4 to $30 a pound. In 1863, a food riot occurred in Richmond, Virginia, the capital of the Confederate nation. The Confederacy was being attacked from two sides, externally and internally, with discontent arising from the seat of power of the new nation.
Suffering and food shortage were now problems plaguing the South. With such concerns at hand, the idea of establishing a Confederate coinage completely faded from the people's minds. Whether the Confederacy itself would last was the question at hand. Famine and hunger signaled that the South was fighting for a lost cause. In 1865, Confederate President Jefferson Davis, fabled to have disguised himself in woman's clothing, was captured by Union soldiers at Irwinville, Georgia, and the Confederate half dollar that he carried as a souvenir "pocket piece" was stolen. The capture of the fleeing President marked the official end to the Civil War and the Confederacy. Like the other three Confederate half dollar coins, the coin which Davis had carried was now indeed a memento - a mere legacy to the Confederacy's short-lived dream of establishing a coinage to assert their independence, self-sufficiency, and Southern identity.
Bibliography
Alexander, David T. Coin World Comprehensive Catalog & Encyclopedia of United States Coins. New York: World Almanac, 1990
Breen, Walter. Walter Breen's Complete Encyclopedia of U.S. and Colonial Coins. New York: Doubleday, 1988.
Cooke, John Esten. Commercial Enfranchisement of the Confederate States of America. Richmond: West, 1862
Criswell, Grover, and Romerstien, Herb. The Official Guide to Confederate Money and Civil War Tokens. New York: HC Publishers, 1971.
Fuller, Claud. Confederate Currency and Stamps. Nashville: Parthenon Press, 1949
Godfrey, John Munro. Southern Banks and the Confederate Monetary Expansion. Atlanta: Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta, Research Department, 1978
Krause, Barry. "Tracking the Confederate Half." The Numismatist. March 2001: 285
Morgan, James F. Graybacks and Gold: Confederate Monetary Policy. Pensecola: Perdido Bay Press, 1985
Pollard, Edward A. The Lost Cause. New York: E.B. Treat, 1867
Reinfeld, Fred. The Story of Civil War Money. New York: Sterling Publishers, 1959
These used to come in a little red folding case with other copies such as territorial gold and even two hard times tokens.
Thank you for viewing my sale. All my sales start at $1.00.
This is a restrike of the 1861 Confederate Cent in whatappears to be brass or copper.
According to authors Harold Levi and George Corell in their book The Lovett Cent: aConfederate Story (2006), this restrike predates the Bashlow restrikes because this restrike carries many of the sameidentical diagnostics as the Bashlow in the exact locations such as the stamped letter "L" in the cotton bale on the bottom reverse side,rust damage and the 3 defacing slashes on the reverse, but unlike the Bashlow, the rust damage on this restrike is less thanthat of the Bashlow and does not carry the additional slashes across the reverse field though the word "CENT."
The authorsadditionally note that the point of Liberty's bust truncation does not show the level of rust damage as the Bashlowrestrike and the words "CONFEDERATE STATES OF AMERICA" do not show the advance level of rust damage that is present on theBashlow restrike.
The thickness of this restrike is .0765 which is about the thickness of a contemporary Flying Eagle orpre-1865 Indian Head cent. The author's conclusion is that these restrikes were made from theoriginal dies during some period after the 1870s when John Haseltine purchased the original defaced dies from RobertLovett, and made less than 100 restrikes before the dies broke, and 1961 when Robert Bashlow acquired the dies which had deteriorated over the 80 some years and produced30,156 restrikes for the Civil War Centennial.
I've provided a couple of nice large pictures of this restrike in different light conditions for your scrutiny. Also pleasetake a minute or so and check my response.
For those who are not familiar with the Confederate Cent and its restrikes, here is a little history:
In 1861, an official of the Confederate States of America contacted Bailey & Co. of Philadelphia concerning supplying onecent pieces for the Confederacy. Bailey & Co. commissioned Robert Lovett, a well known medalist and token maker from thesame city who had previously designed a cent sized token featuring the profile of "Miss Liberty," as the person to designthe new CSA coin and make the dies. Lovett adopted his "Miss Liberty" head for the obverse of a cent, with CONFEDERATESTATES OF AMERICA surrounding the profile and the date below. The reverse design was in the form of a wreath with a bale ofcotton below on which was the initial of the engraver, L. Within the wreath was "1 CENT." Lovett struck 12 pattern piecesin copper-nickel, the alloy being used at the time to make United States Indian Head cents.Fearing treason charges fromUnion authorities for aiding the Confederacy, he cancelled the project, defaced the dies and hid the 12 coins until afterthe War when he carried around one of the coins as a pocket piece.In 1873, Lovett, who was now an alcoholic, spent theConfederate cent by mistake in a Philadelphia bar. The bartender recognized the piece as being unusual, and showed it to afew individuals who who eventually made contact with John Haseltine. Haseltine bought the coin and contacted Robert Lovettto buy any remaining coins. Lovett denied any knowledge of the coin until one evening when he was “drunk and goaded beyondendurance, confessed all….†At this point, Lovett unearthed the remaining coins and dies and sold the entire lot toHaseltine.Haseltine took the dies to Peter Kinder of Philadelphia to make restrikes of the Confederate cent. After sevengold, twelve silver, and 54 copper restrikes had been made, the dies broke on the 55th copper strike. No copper-nickelalloy restrikes were made to preserve the integrity of the original dozen coined by Lovett.For years the dies were thoughtto have been destroyed but in 1961 they surfaced in the hands of Robert Bashlow, a New York City coin dealer. The obversedie had been defaced by hammer blows and the reverse by chisel cuts. Bashlow had August C. Frank & Co. of Philadelphia maketransfer dies and strike 30,156 copies in a variety of metals in time for the Civil War centennial. Known as the Bashlow"second restrikes," they are the final run of Confederate cents. Following his 1961 production strikes, Bashlow donatedboth dies to the Smithsonian Institute where they currently reside.
Shipping and insurance on this item will be free to the lower 48 states.
I offer a 5 day return period from the time the
I hope you are right ambo51......but I think its a recent 60's token.
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
<< <i>Bashlow had August C. Frank & Co. of Philadelphia make transfer dies and strike 30,156 copies in a variety of metals in time for the Civil War centennial. Known as the Bashlow"second restrikes," they are the final run of Confederate cents. Following his 1961 production strikes, Bashlow donated both dies to the Smithsonian Institute where they currently reside. >>
Thanks for this. I've been wondering if Bashlow donated both the original and transfer dies to the Smithsonian or if one set was sold with the rest of his collection.
Are there a lot of 60s tokens with die cancellation marks?
<< <i>From the photo comparison, it seems like there may be some discrepancies.
Are there a lot of 60s tokens with die cancellation marks? >>
Glance at the book link as many of the different fakes listed have the cancellation marks.
<< <i>You can preview most all of Harold Levi and George Corell book here >>
Thanks for the link. The story on the copies using molds from the original dies, possibly by Virgil Brand's family, is fascinating. The Brand family had the dies within their possession from September 1919 to May 1954. Apparently, there are only 6-7 of those known and they may be related to the true dies, though not true restrikes.
Still feel the example posted here is a novelty.
If you look at the cap on the obverse and sharpness of the letters.
On the reverse it's just not accurate in the scale on items as the ear of corn and wheat along with many of the striking details not being there.
It has nothing to do with having slight rub on the high points as much is protected and just was never there.
<< <i>That sounds like this coin may be one of those. It's not any cheap copy. Did they seriously copy a n obscure die crack? Where's that GIF >>
If your piece turns out to be a Virgil Brand piece, I still think that's extremely cool and a great find.
<< <i>
<< <i>That sounds like this coin may be one of those. It's not any cheap copy. Did they seriously copy a n obscure die crack? Where's that GIF >>
If your piece turns out to be a Virgil Brand piece, I still think that's extremely cool and a great find. >>
I read the Brand portion of the book and think it's bogus. Virgil had the means to own all the Lovett originals and Haseltine restrikes. He was a hoarder so if one was good 40 where better as he actually owned that many of a George Lovett Baker issue which was considered a R-7 for 100 years until his 1982 sale. I do believe he may have owned the dies but strongly doubt that he, his brother, niece, or nephew used them.
<< <i>No Broadstruck. Not it. This is what I see, the die crack from the leaf curl to the base progresses through the original strikes by Lovett on Copper Nickel. This area of the die is where the troubles began. Here we see the crack, an insignificant minor feature which I'm sure even Broadstruck would agree would go wholly unnoticied by a replica coin maker and too minor to be present on a cast. Here's the marker on the Lovett CSA.
Not sure what your trying to prove with these miniaturized images
<< <i>You're " not sure"..? There's the same exact die crack from the leaf curl to the dentils. Look back on your big photos. It's a shared diagnostic with that die. >>
Your going to have to offer some longitudinal direction or better yet post some larger images.
I can't be sure of anything as what you've posted is like trying to find Waldo on a Rice Krispie
<< <i>Sorry I'm on Mobil and can't do much about size. Look from top left corner to bottom right corner on the original Lovett photo. That bisect runs along the die marker. Dead center all small images >>
There's no corners on a round coin...
How about if the cent was a clock what time would the marker be at
I am not saying that this is what happened. I am merely offering it as a possible explanation for the discrepancy in the markings.
TD