Another eBay fiasco
rmpsrpms
Posts: 1,968 ✭✭✭✭✭
Sorry to discuss yet another eBay fiasco but I am looking for guidance...
I purchased a numismatically-related accessory item recently, for a little over $1k. It was described as "used but in a new condition", and the seller reassured me saying it was "mint". The pictures showed "something" not right but I always go by the description first, and bought it. Well, the pictures did not lie, and the "something" I saw was cosmetic damage. The seller did not offer returns, so this was going to be a hassle. The item was still usable, and indeed is quite rare in any condition, and in fact the seller had other similar items (but not direct replacements), so I wrote back stating:
1) The damage lowered the value of the item, and if the item had been properly described, it would have sold for far less
2) I would prefer to keep the item, but would want a partial refund of ~33%
3) If that was not acceptable, then I'd like to return the item for refund using eBay's return system
4) I'd consider purchasing a similar item from him at a reduced price rather than getting cash back
After several days, the seller wrote back, telling me that the item was indeed properly described. He said that he had contacted eBay and they said my statements could be considered extortion and that if he started a case against me it could result in my account being sanctioned or closed. He also said that a decision against him would only require him to refund my money, and that he already has another interested buyer.
Feeling like the situation had been turned around, that I was in the right, and that he was now attempting to intimidate me, I immediately put in a SNAD case. After an extended wait while eBay negotiated with the seller (I guess >$1k is a "high value claim" so more discussion is warranted), eBay forced him to send me a preprinted return label and accept the return. I sent the item, and luckily it arrived "undamaged" (I was worried he'd claim damage), and he refunded my money.
So now I'm trying to decide what to do next. If I was in any way in the wrong, I would likely just drop it and move on without any feedback given, but I feel my statements were within bounds and that the seller's were not. That said, I'd like to hear opinions before I proceed with a negative feedback.
I purchased a numismatically-related accessory item recently, for a little over $1k. It was described as "used but in a new condition", and the seller reassured me saying it was "mint". The pictures showed "something" not right but I always go by the description first, and bought it. Well, the pictures did not lie, and the "something" I saw was cosmetic damage. The seller did not offer returns, so this was going to be a hassle. The item was still usable, and indeed is quite rare in any condition, and in fact the seller had other similar items (but not direct replacements), so I wrote back stating:
1) The damage lowered the value of the item, and if the item had been properly described, it would have sold for far less
2) I would prefer to keep the item, but would want a partial refund of ~33%
3) If that was not acceptable, then I'd like to return the item for refund using eBay's return system
4) I'd consider purchasing a similar item from him at a reduced price rather than getting cash back
After several days, the seller wrote back, telling me that the item was indeed properly described. He said that he had contacted eBay and they said my statements could be considered extortion and that if he started a case against me it could result in my account being sanctioned or closed. He also said that a decision against him would only require him to refund my money, and that he already has another interested buyer.
Feeling like the situation had been turned around, that I was in the right, and that he was now attempting to intimidate me, I immediately put in a SNAD case. After an extended wait while eBay negotiated with the seller (I guess >$1k is a "high value claim" so more discussion is warranted), eBay forced him to send me a preprinted return label and accept the return. I sent the item, and luckily it arrived "undamaged" (I was worried he'd claim damage), and he refunded my money.
So now I'm trying to decide what to do next. If I was in any way in the wrong, I would likely just drop it and move on without any feedback given, but I feel my statements were within bounds and that the seller's were not. That said, I'd like to hear opinions before I proceed with a negative feedback.
0
Comments
<< <i>... but I always go by the description first, and bought it. >>
This is where you went wrong.
If I were in your shoes, I'd probably just move on w/out leaving a negative. You got your $ back, albeit after pulling some strings, but the seller seemed to comply thereafter.
<< <i>
<< <i>... but I always go by the description first, and bought it. >>
This is where you went wrong.
... >>
I don't get this. Photos can be deceptive. Of course words can be as well, but it is the words that you must go by. Let's look at it from the other perspective...what if the photos showed no problems at all, but the words described the damage. At that point I would have no recourse because the damage was described.
http://macrocoins.com
In my view negatives are for very serious problems and this doesn't qualify. I realize others use negatives more freely.
Lance.
he may not like that you disagree and want an adjustment but factually the communication is simply that nothing that is against ebay policy in any respect.`
skip the feedback if your made whole other wise if he stalls after you return the item do what you gotta do. It could be a mistake on the sellers part the benefit of the doubt is warranted until he shows it is not in my opinion.
you made a good effort to communicate in a specific manner that would be considered reasonable by most people irregardless if one agrees or not.
You have been refunded. Move on.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
for not as described and was refunded.
bob
<< <i>
<< <i>... but I always go by the description first, and bought it. >>
This is where you went wrong. >>
Always going by description first and ignoring the pictures is easily the worst thing you can do on ebay. You'd actually be better off if you always did the exact opposite of that. Also, this: "2) I would prefer to keep the item, but would want a partial refund of ~33%" probably pissed him off. You should have just said it wasn't as described and asked to return it.
As for the situation at hand, it's really your call. I'd still give him a negative for him threatening you, because you shouldn't be able to do that and get off scott free. Personally I've only given out like 5 negatives to sellers on ebay, and 100% of those sellers are "No longer a registered user".
<< <i> The item was still usable, and indeed is quite rare in any condition >>
If you can use it and it isn't impaired for the intended usage, I'd say you might be lucky to have gotten it at all.
Coors, that's me and I don't know what it is.
Why would you disregard something you can see with your own eyes because of something someone tells you?
And an auction is a binary thing - you either buy it or you don't. You can't reopen negotiations after you receive the item. Why only a 33% discount - why not 70%?
1) This is why I don't sell on ebay...
2) Ebay always sides with the buyer...
3) It doesn't matter what you write as your policy since ebay will force a seller to do whatever it wants...
4) Why didn't the buyer ask questions prior to the close of the item...
5) The buyer knows he can SNAD the item and wants a discount...
6) The "damage" claimed is clearly visible in the images provided...
Folks would also likely be telling the seller to get in touch with ebay and relate the message from the buyer and then to take a strong stand in dealing with the buyer.
It's funny that when the situation is reversed there isn't so much outcry.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>Sorry to discuss yet another eBay fiasco but I am looking for guidance...
I purchased a numismatically-related accessory item recently, for a little over $1k. It was described as "used but in a new condition", and the seller reassured me saying it was "mint". The pictures showed "something" not right but I always go by the description first, and bought it. Well, the pictures did not lie, and the "something" I saw was cosmetic damage. The seller did not offer returns, so this was going to be a hassle. The item was still usable, and indeed is quite rare in any condition, and in fact the seller had other similar items (but not direct replacements), so I wrote back stating:
1) The damage lowered the value of the item, and if the item had been properly described, it would have sold for far less
2) I would prefer to keep the item, but would want a partial refund of ~33%
3) If that was not acceptable, then I'd like to return the item for refund using eBay's return system
4) I'd consider purchasing a similar item from him at a reduced price rather than getting cash back
After several days, the seller wrote back, telling me that the item was indeed properly described. He said that he had contacted eBay and they said my statements could be considered extortion and that if he started a case against me it could result in my account being sanctioned or closed. He also said that a decision against him would only require him to refund my money, and that he already has another interested buyer.
Feeling like the situation had been turned around, that I was in the right, and that he was now attempting to intimidate me, I immediately put in a SNAD case. After an extended wait while eBay negotiated with the seller (I guess >$1k is a "high value claim" so more discussion is warranted), eBay forced him to send me a preprinted return label and accept the return. I sent the item, and luckily it arrived "undamaged" (I was worried he'd claim damage), and he refunded my money.
So now I'm trying to decide what to do next. If I was in any way in the wrong, I would likely just drop it and move on without any feedback given, but I feel my statements were within bounds and that the seller's were not. That said, I'd like to hear opinions before I proceed with a negative feedback. >>
I wrote back stating:
1) The damage lowered the value of the item, and if the item had been properly described, it would have sold for far less
2) I would prefer to keep the item, but would want a partial refund of ~33%
3) If that was not acceptable, then I'd like to return the item for refund using eBay's return system
4) I'd consider purchasing a similar item from him at a reduced price rather than getting cash back
Writing back like this is, imho, the problem and why the seller got defensive. See the part I bolded above? How many times have people on these forums reported someone trying to "negotiate" (ie...extort) a discount from them AFTER the item was delivered?
How many times have forum members replied back to those forum member sellers "tell him to pound sand and send it back for the full refund....NO partial refunds!"????
Quite a bit.
If I were in your shoes, I would likely have said something more like: "Thanks for the quick shipment. Regrettably, as I went by the description, the actual item appears to have an issue that wasn't mentioned. I understand some things can be overlooked. If I had known about the issue, I wouldn't have bid as I did as I believe that, while it is still a nice piece, with the issue, the max it is worth, in my opinion, would have been 33% less than my winning bid". I do understand not everyone sees everything the same, but I can't justify the price I paid with the issue that is there that was not mentioned/missed.
Please let me know how you would like to proceed with the return/refund."
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Velocity, Not Valuation Defines A Bubble.
There you go.
http://macrocoins.com
Contracts can't be enforced on people with mental disabilities.
<< <i>I want to thank all of those who responded and voted. I like to look at things from all sides and appreciate the various perspectives. In any situation like this it's hard to be totally "clean" and this is why I wanted the additional input on how to proceed. At this point I will go with the overwhelming majority and do nothing. In doing nothing, when the seller probably expects a negative, for the next 60 days or so he'll wonder when that negative is going to show up. Plus, the PayPal fees (I will NOT cancel the auction) should be punishment enough for the perceived threats he gave me. >>
I hate to rain on your victory parade, but when an item is returned, eBay credits the final value fees and PayPal returns the percentage charged (~3%) BUT they keep the 30c fee, so he is out 30c plus postage both ways.
By opening a SNAD case, you did give the seller a defect on their account. Too many defects and they lose their Top Rated 20% discount (if they have one)
<< <i>I want to thank all of those who responded and voted. I like to look at things from all sides and appreciate the various perspectives. In any situation like this it's hard to be totally "clean" and this is why I wanted the additional input on how to proceed. At this point I will go with the overwhelming majority and do nothing. In doing nothing, when the seller probably expects a negative, for the next 60 days or so he'll wonder when that negative is going to show up. Plus, the PayPal fees (I will NOT cancel the auction) should be punishment enough for the perceived threats he gave me. >>
You cancelled the auction through the ebay return system All fees will be refunded.
I wonder how much nicer this world(and forum) would be if all those who voted to slam the seller would have the same attitude as those who voted like I just to let it pass.
I would love to know what you bought...might throw a different light on people's opinions!
He refunded your money
Leave a positive
I'd also take this as a lesson to send the seller a question when you are on the fence from something, especially a $1,000+ item. If they respond with information that accurately answers your question, you have the info you need to determine whether you purchase the item or not. If they don't respond, you should probably move on as they are either not a "dedicated" seller or they are trying to not answer a question.
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<< <i>I'd like to play a little Devil's Advocate here and wonder what might some of the replies be to this thread if the situation was reversed. That is, if the situation was of a board member who sold a numismatic-related item and the buyer sent an email with the four options listed by the OP. I imagine that folks would line up with the following responses-
1) This is why I don't sell on ebay...
2) Ebay always sides with the buyer...
3) It doesn't matter what you write as your policy since ebay will force a seller to do whatever it wants...
4) Why didn't the buyer ask questions prior to the close of the item...
5) The buyer knows he can SNAD the item and wants a discount...
6) The "damage" claimed is clearly visible in the images provided...
Folks would also likely be telling the seller to get in touch with ebay and relate the message from the buyer and then to take a strong stand in dealing with the buyer.
It's funny that when the situation is reversed there isn't so much outcry. >>
Excellent.
You forgot that posters would also have asked for the ebay ID to block the buyer.
<< <i>
<< <i>I'd like to play a little Devil's Advocate here and wonder what might some of the replies be to this thread if the situation was reversed. That is, if the situation was of a board member who sold a numismatic-related item and the buyer sent an email with the four options listed by the OP. I imagine that folks would line up with the following responses-
1) This is why I don't sell on ebay...
2) Ebay always sides with the buyer...
3) It doesn't matter what you write as your policy since ebay will force a seller to do whatever it wants...
4) Why didn't the buyer ask questions prior to the close of the item...
5) The buyer knows he can SNAD the item and wants a discount...
6) The "damage" claimed is clearly visible in the images provided...
Folks would also likely be telling the seller to get in touch with ebay and relate the message from the buyer and then to take a strong stand in dealing with the buyer.
It's funny that when the situation is reversed there isn't so much outcry. >>
Excellent.
You forgot that posters would also have asked for the ebay ID to block the buyer. >>
But do you really believe the seller would give all information honestly? Let me give you a coin analogy in the form you're describing and see if you still think the buyer would be crucified:
Title...Another eBay fiasco
Sorry to discuss yet another eBay fiasco but I am looking for guidance...
I sold a coin on eBay for a little over $1k. The coin had several scratches on it, but the grading company missed them (it was NOT PCGS) and gave the coin an MS67 grade. The scratches showed in the photos, so I figure even though the coin should not be in a MS67 holder any buyer will see the scratches and bid accordingly. The buyer asked about the scratches and I replied that the coin is a gem mint condition coin as indicated by the MS67 grade assigned and I know he'll be happy with it. It sold for top dollar, and I was pleased! But when the guy got the coin, he wrote back that the scratches should have been described, and lower the value of the coin. He had the gall to ask for 33% back on the coin! He said if that is not acceptable that he'd like to return the coin, but I specifically stated in the auction listing that I DO NOT OFFER RETURNS. This guy is trying to extort money from me and I won't have it. I wrote to him, telling him that if I put in a case against him that his extortion could get him kicked off eBay, but he went ahead with filing a case AGAINST ME asking to return the item.
So now I'm trying to decide what to do next. If I was in any way in the wrong, I would likely just accept the return and move on, but I feel I was within bounds and that the buyer is not. That said, I'd like to hear opinions before I proceed with trying to get him kicked off eBay.
http://macrocoins.com
Nonetheless, the seller tried to dupe you, and I think consider something along the lines of . . . Seller refunded my SNAD Item, but not willingly . . . would be appropriate.
Don't buy anything on eBay where the description doesn't match the pictures exactly. Be happy that you were refunded so quickly and move on.
Check out my iPhone app SlabReader!
<< <i>But do you really believe the seller would give all information honestly? >>
I don't know what you would do as a seller and I don't know what the seller in this transaction would do; but I know that I would disclose any known negative about an item I had for sale prior to having someone buy it. It's just the right thing to do and it also likely saves angst as well as shipping costs.
Look, I don't think your seller in this ebay transaction is evil. I think you bid on an item and ignored the problems you saw with your own eyes, which may or may not have been seen as problems by the seller. You then sent an entirely inappropriate message to the seller and opened up the subsequent can of worms all on your own. The seller might be a jerk, might not have noticed what you noticed or might have been afraid of a scam on your part, but whatever the case; the seller acted to protect his/her interests in using the ebay policies that apply to the sale. You appear bent out of shape with this transaction, but I can't fathom how you don't seem to realize that you shoulder a significant portion of the blame for this deal.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
<< <i>Look, I don't think your seller in this ebay transaction is evil. I think you bid on an item and ignored the problems you saw with your own eyes, which may or may not have been seen as problems by the seller. You then sent an entirely inappropriate message to the seller and opened up the subsequent can of worms all on your own. The seller might be a jerk, might not have noticed what you noticed or might have been afraid of a scam on your part, but whatever the case; the seller acted to protect his/her interests in using the ebay policies that apply to the sale. You appear bent out of shape with this transaction, but I can't fathom how you don't seem to realize that you shoulder a significant portion of the blame for this deal.
>>
What Tom said.
and will have a fixed length of time to respond. A negotiated settlement won't be out of the question,
but if it's a simple disagreement over the definition of "mint", the buyer (you) will win 100% of the
time. Assuming the seller isn't abusive in that scenario, I wouldn't leave a neg. If he really digs in,
I might leave a "neutral" as a courtesy to future prospective buyers. Assuming I got the refund without
undue hardship, I probably would leave no feedback.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I'd like to play a little Devil's Advocate here and wonder what might some of the replies be to this thread if the situation was reversed. That is, if the situation was of a board member who sold a numismatic-related item and the buyer sent an email with the four options listed by the OP. I imagine that folks would line up with the following responses-
1) This is why I don't sell on ebay...
2) Ebay always sides with the buyer...
3) It doesn't matter what you write as your policy since ebay will force a seller to do whatever it wants...
4) Why didn't the buyer ask questions prior to the close of the item...
5) The buyer knows he can SNAD the item and wants a discount...
6) The "damage" claimed is clearly visible in the images provided...
Folks would also likely be telling the seller to get in touch with ebay and relate the message from the buyer and then to take a strong stand in dealing with the buyer.
It's funny that when the situation is reversed there isn't so much outcry. >>
Excellent.
You forgot that posters would also have asked for the ebay ID to block the buyer. >>
But do you really believe the seller would give all information honestly? Let me give you a coin analogy in the form you're describing and see if you still think the buyer would be crucified:
Title...Another eBay fiasco
Sorry to discuss yet another eBay fiasco but I am looking for guidance...
I sold a coin on eBay for a little over $1k. The coin had several scratches on it, but the grading company missed them (it was NOT PCGS) and gave the coin an MS67 grade. The scratches showed in the photos, so I figure even though the coin should not be in a MS67 holder any buyer will see the scratches and bid accordingly. The buyer asked about the scratches and I replied that the coin is a gem mint condition coin as indicated by the MS67 grade assigned and I know he'll be happy with it. It sold for top dollar, and I was pleased! But when the guy got the coin, he wrote back that the scratches should have been described, and lower the value of the coin. He had the gall to ask for 33% back on the coin! He said if that is not acceptable that he'd like to return the coin, but I specifically stated in the auction listing that I DO NOT OFFER RETURNS. This guy is trying to extort money from me and I won't have it. I wrote to him, telling him that if I put in a case against him that his extortion could get him kicked off eBay, but he went ahead with filing a case AGAINST ME asking to return the item.
So now I'm trying to decide what to do next. If I was in any way in the wrong, I would likely just accept the return and move on, but I feel I was within bounds and that the buyer is not. That said, I'd like to hear opinions before I proceed with trying to get him kicked off eBay. >>
Excellent.
<< <i>In the future, I would recommend just opening a SNAD claim with eBay. The seller will be notified,
and will have a fixed length of time to respond. A negotiated settlement won't be out of the question,
but if it's a simple disagreement over the definition of "mint", the buyer (you) will win 100% of the
time. Assuming the seller isn't abusive in that scenario, I wouldn't leave a neg. If he really digs in,
I might leave a "neutral" as a courtesy to future prospective buyers. Assuming I got the refund without
undue hardship, I probably would leave no feedback. >>
Meanwhile even if the seller ends up being right, he still gets dinged because the case was opened in the first place. I've had SNAD cases opened where I could point to the problem the buyer described being stated verbatim in the listing, but I'm dinged as soon as the buyer opens the case instead of just emailing. If the seller won't help and you really think you're right, fine, but outside of egregious fraud, have the courtesy to just email the seller and let him make it right before opening a case.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I'd like to play a little Devil's Advocate here and wonder what might some of the replies be to this thread if the situation was reversed. That is, if the situation was of a board member who sold a numismatic-related item and the buyer sent an email with the four options listed by the OP. I imagine that folks would line up with the following responses-
1) This is why I don't sell on ebay...
2) Ebay always sides with the buyer...
3) It doesn't matter what you write as your policy since ebay will force a seller to do whatever it wants...
4) Why didn't the buyer ask questions prior to the close of the item...
5) The buyer knows he can SNAD the item and wants a discount...
6) The "damage" claimed is clearly visible in the images provided...
Folks would also likely be telling the seller to get in touch with ebay and relate the message from the buyer and then to take a strong stand in dealing with the buyer.
It's funny that when the situation is reversed there isn't so much outcry. >>
Excellent.
You forgot that posters would also have asked for the ebay ID to block the buyer. >>
But do you really believe the seller would give all information honestly? Let me give you a coin analogy in the form you're describing and see if you still think the buyer would be crucified:
Title...Another eBay fiasco
Sorry to discuss yet another eBay fiasco but I am looking for guidance...
I sold a coin on eBay for a little over $1k. The coin had several scratches on it, but the grading company missed them (it was NOT PCGS) and gave the coin an MS67 grade. The scratches showed in the photos, so I figure even though the coin should not be in a MS67 holder any buyer will see the scratches and bid accordingly. The buyer asked about the scratches and I replied that the coin is a gem mint condition coin as indicated by the MS67 grade assigned and I know he'll be happy with it. It sold for top dollar, and I was pleased! But when the guy got the coin, he wrote back that the scratches should have been described, and lower the value of the coin. He had the gall to ask for 33% back on the coin! He said if that is not acceptable that he'd like to return the coin, but I specifically stated in the auction listing that I DO NOT OFFER RETURNS. This guy is trying to extort money from me and I won't have it. I wrote to him, telling him that if I put in a case against him that his extortion could get him kicked off eBay, but he went ahead with filing a case AGAINST ME asking to return the item.
So now I'm trying to decide what to do next. If I was in any way in the wrong, I would likely just accept the return and move on, but I feel I was within bounds and that the buyer is not. That said, I'd like to hear opinions before I proceed with trying to get him kicked off eBay. >>
I think you missed the point. The excellent post by TomB that I quoted (and his equally excellent second post in this thread) supports my observation that, if the roles were reversed, individuals here would want to know YOUR ebay ID so they could block you from purchasing from their sites. I have read several threads by ebay sellers lamenting situations where a buyer wants a discount because they found some problems with the coin, and the standard refrain from other forum posters is 'out him so I can block him'.
huh?
What was it a copper frame from a Pan-Pac set?
While I absolutely HATE being gotten the better of when the other party wishes me harm or is callous, let it go.
You have your money back.
<< <i>...Look, I don't think your seller in this ebay transaction is evil. I think you bid on an item and ignored the problems you saw with your own eyes, which may or may not have been seen as problems by the seller. You then sent an entirely inappropriate message to the seller and opened up the subsequent can of worms all on your own. The seller might be a jerk, might not have noticed what you noticed or might have been afraid of a scam on your part, but whatever the case; the seller acted to protect his/her interests in using the ebay policies that apply to the sale. You appear bent out of shape with this transaction, but I can't fathom how you don't seem to realize that you shoulder a significant portion of the blame for this deal. >>
The reason I started this thread was to put the facts out and get opinions on my path forward. I know I could have done better, but the facts are the seller misled me and then threatened me when I asked to return the item. I don't see that my response was "entirely inappropriate", nor do I believe I shoulder a "significant portion of blame" for this deal. Some, for sure, since I did go forward given the description as well as reassurance from the seller.
<< <i> think you missed the point. The excellent post by TomB that I quoted (and his equally excellent second post in this thread) supports my observation that, if the roles were reversed, individuals here would want to know YOUR ebay ID so they could block you from purchasing from their sites. I have read several threads by ebay sellers lamenting situations where a buyer wants a discount because they found some problems with the coin, and the standard refrain from other forum posters is 'out him so I can block him'. >>
What is it about saying that you would either like to return a defective item, or get a partial refund? It gives the seller an option in case they don't want the item back. If the seller does not want to give a partial refund, then he can just take it back. I would really like to hear a logical argument against this.
http://macrocoins.com
<< <i>What is it about saying that you would either like to return a defective item, or get a partial refund? It gives the seller an option in case they don't want the item back. If the seller does not want to give a partial refund, then he can just take it back. I would really like to hear a logical argument against this. >>
If buyer and seller are familiar with one another...have some sort of friendship or professional relationship, let's say...then that approach is perfectly reasonable.
But when the parties are strangers, conducting business in an environment filled with suspicion and mistrust (eBay), then the possibility of unscrupulous intentions arises. "This guy is trying to squeeze me."
It's unfortunate that such thoughts are our first ones. Sadly, they have been justified too often.
Lance.
Just forget it and never, ever, ever, ask for a "partial refund" for an item which was purchased. It ALWAYS appears like extortion as this is why eBay has a global return policy which buyers can use.
The name is LEE!
http://macrocoins.com
Anyway, luthiers use a special tool to set the soundpost and so that required a trip to the local violin shop and about 20 bucks...max...maybe free if they are really cool. The bow, on the other hand, that's going to run 35 bucks for a student grade bow as they really aren't fixable with any reliability.
I sent the seller a similar message as yours stating that I would like to either keep the instrument with a partial refund to cover the costs of an equivalent bow and soundpost reset or simply return the entire package as I received it for a refund and that I would leave it up to him as to which option.
The way I looked at it was simply that I received the item not as described, but was willing to work it out provided I was unharmed by the transaction and let the seller decide what worked best for them. I really didn't care which option the seller took. In this instance, the seller likely thought I was trying to jam them for money as they left no feedback for me at all. I left positive feedback for them for making good on the transaction and said so in the feedback.
It's really a no win, but sometimes you can only do what's right and let things shake out how they will.
When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
Thomas Paine
<< <i>One last try. If I had said "I'd like to send this back for a full refund", it would be OK. But if I say "I'd either like to send this back for a full refund, or keep it with a partial refund", this is not OK. Or is the problem the order of how it is said, ie "I'd either like to keep the item and receive a partial refund, or send it back for a full refund" is not OK. I'm just trying to understand the logic. >>
As I said in an earlier post in this thread, yes, your approach was inappropriate.
If I were in your shoes, I would likely have said something more like: "Thanks for the quick shipment. Regrettably, as I went by the description, the actual item appears to have an issue that wasn't mentioned. I understand some things can be overlooked. If I had known about the issue, I wouldn't have bid as I did as I believe that, while it is still a nice piece, with the issue, the max it is worth, in my opinion, would have been 33% less than my winning bid". I do understand not everyone sees everything the same, but I can't justify the price I paid with the issue that is there that was not mentioned/missed.
Please let me know how you would like to proceed with the return/refund."
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Just move on and don't sweat the small stuff in life. >>
Yeah, that is what I will do. It is frustrating to read folks saying what I did was "inappropriate" or other nonsense without saying why, but that's why I started the thread, ie to get the full gamut of opinion and then make my decision. I am a very logical guy, and many of the responses were "nuanced", which I understand even less than I do "diplomacy" or "etiquette". I was made whole, though I had some hot moments when being accused of extortion and threatened with expulsion from eBay. I'll chock it up to "experience". For those who thought my asking for a partial refund was my downfall, I have decided to never do that again, not because I think it was wrong (and still don't), but because many of you did and I respect the opinions of the CU forumites.
http://macrocoins.com
You may not have meant it that way, but just sayin'....
www.brunkauctions.com
<< <i>Asking for a partial refund comes off as douche-y
You may not have meant it that way, but just sayin'.... >>
Another nuanced opinion with no logical reasoning that is beyond my comprehension.
Please, no more responses to this thread, OK?
http://macrocoins.com
You are not new to this forum and I can only imagine you have read multiple threads where posts have within them the equivalent of "return it for refund or keep it" and that the idea of a partial refund (when the seller believes he/she is correct) is not welcomed by quite a few forum folks who sell on ebay; perhaps even a significant majority. On occasion, there is even a call to find out who the ebay buyer might be who requests a partial refund under these circumstances and again there can be a tendency to write something like "block'em".
I don't think it particularly wise to bid upon a no return ebay auction to begin with, but also understand that sometimes it is the only way to get something or the risk appears absent or at least very low. In your case I imagine that the risk was perceived as low since you seem to have asked about the condition and were reassured that it was very nice. Of course, what one person thinks is very nice, mint, perfect or entirely acceptable is not always what someone else will think when examining the same item, even though we all believe we know what these terms mean and how to use them. From what I can see, this is what happened-
You bid.
You received the item.
You were disappointed and thought the item was misrepresented.
You believed you should be able to return the item.
If that were the entirety of the situation then I don't think many people here would have much of an issue other than to state that you should trust your eyes as much or more than you trust the written description of the seller. I also think most would support a move to ship it back for full refund. However, coming back to the seller with the suggestion that you would keep the item if you received one-third off on the price (on an approximately $1,000 item) can be easily viewed as a strong-arm tactic on your part and the seller could have felt as though he/she were backed into a corner and needed protection. After all, we repeatedly read about how ebay almost always sides with the buyer in any dispute and that selling on ebay is fraught with peril. Heck, it is sometimes written about like it's a den of thieves. That is where I think you went wrong and sent inappropriate content to the seller.
I don't know the bid history of the item so I don't know if there were only two bidders and your bid heavily influenced the sales price or if there were many active bidders at or near the closing price, which would reduce the effect that you had on the final price. Because of this, I have no idea if a one-third discount represents a bidding war between two parties or a reckoning on your part. Regardless, you state yourself that you are logical, but might not be universally well versed in diplomacy, nuance or etiquette. The seller might be the same way, or perhaps the seller has had experiences with bad buyers and/or potential scammers on ebay. We don't know, but you took what might have been a far simpler conversation about a return and stepped it up one or more notches with the idea of a substantial discount to keep the item. It is not hard to think that the seller might have felt intimidated and then took whatever action ebay gives to sellers (calling up ebay) to learn about seller options and to protect themselves. In this case, the seller could have indeed believed you were attempting extortion, the ebay rep could have thought the same and the seller could have sent you a response based upon that conversation; perhaps even coached by the ebay rep on how to write the response. The idea that you were attempting to extort the seller is not a theory that I subscribe to, but if the seller believed that he/she was correct in the determination of condition then I don't for one moment fault the seller for taking matters to an ebay rep and then sending some sort of written warning to you that you might be treading on thin ice.
Similar to you, I consider myself to be quite logical, though I do believe that I can pick up on some nuance, employ a sporadic form of diplomacy and display some etiquette. Even so, I also realize that my writing is not entirely user-friendly, can be thought of as heavy-handed and may even be considered at times to be belligerent or arrogant. One thing it generally isn't, however, is nonsense.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson