I'm not making any nefarious accusations, I'm just saying Google is pretty powerful, even when you're just going on a screen name.
Good luck to both parties in figuring out this hairy situation. >>
wow, a real class act! >>
In the above post his sister is accepting donations for his medical bills...in the link below he is looking for donations for his sick grandson: (he also changed his user id on the vam forum 3-19-2015)
My daughter was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at the age of 2 (2003). My son was diagnosed with Type 1 when he was 17 on December 31, 2009. We were stunned that another child of ours had been diagnosed. Please, if you don't have a favorite charity, consider giving to the JDRF (Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation)
I'm not making any nefarious accusations, I'm just saying Google is pretty powerful, even when you're just going on a screen name.
Good luck to both parties in figuring out this hairy situation. >>
wow, a real class act! >>
In the above post his sister is accepting donations for his medical bills...in the link below he is looking for donations for his sick grandson: (he also changed his user id on the vam forum 3-19-2015)
I very rarely even look over at the BST boards for this reason.
I don't think opening a package in from of a postal employee is going to do you much good in court. The post office would probably make it difficult for the employee to go to court for you, and when a package spends 3 to 5 days in the system your video just shows a couple of minutes out of thousands, does not prove the sender did it.
All said I hate to see anyone get ripped off.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
Folks, that is some serious Sherlock Holmes-style sleuthing going on here. My hat is off to those who rooted out the story behind the story here.
It is truly unfortunate that events such as this gets everyone on edge about the BST. I imagine there are hundreds (thousands?) of transactions accomplished there for every one of these nefarious scandals. There are some very good people conducting business there and it has been a privilege to interact with the parties from whom I have acquired coins.
I think it is abundantly clear who is the victim in this case. I hope you get a satisfactory resolution!
<< <i>By the way, the PO does weigh the packages exactly. I don't know how to get that info but if 2 silver dollars and the envelope weigh more than the package that was accepted by his PO, you got this guy, at least in small claims court. >>
The package weight is recorded on the receipt [even if it is a flat rate box/envelope] that the sender gets from the clerk. It doesn't show when you plug in tracking # 9114901230803073283196, but it's possible that the USPS tracking system may have it.
I am going to add a few comments to this thread, because I remember the listing, I myself asked for better photo's/info because I was interested in purchasing these, as they honestly looked to be pretty decent grades compared to the price. This was shortly (with in the hour) after the listing went up. I never received acknowledgement back from the seller period. I am glad that I didn't enter into this transaction after seeing this?
It should be inherently obvious that all of the stories this user has told has been fabricated. This is your classic scam artist - fraudulent transactions on a coin forum, fake fundraisers for phantom relatives diagnosed with cancer, the list goes on.
To the OP: It's going to take some researching, time and money to take this guy down, but it will be in spectacular fashion if/when you do. I hope you do; the satisfaction of true justice is much more satisfactory than several hundred dollars.
Be a pest to the scammer's local PD until they knock on a door.
Although an interesting story, the OP best just chalk it up as a loss like losing in Vegas , cause you have already wasted more than the money amount in time and energy, especially when there is no possible recourse whatsoever that can be enforced...
Take the package and insert two silver dollars, bring it to the PO and see if the postage back to him is more, less or the same as he paid.
The lad stated he is in the "recovery business". AKA he is a tow truck driver. From what I've seen in SoCal, a lot of drivers think they have some affiliation with PD and start to morph their personality to PD worship. A delusional tendency. He may very well believe he is above the law because he does involuntary tows- where the PD directs the job and not the RO.
<< <i>Although an interesting story, the OP best just chalk it up as a loss like losing in Vegas , cause you have already wasted more than the money amount in time and energy, especially when there is no possible recourse whatsoever that can be enforced... >>
I completely disagree. He can get the postal inspector involved. Several individuals provided a compelling example of getting justice through that avenue. Absolute worst case scenario, he gets a judgment in Small Claims court. The defendant can refuse to pay, and the victim may never get his money. But if so motivated, can put liens on personal property, and if he's very very lucky, land a judge that comes royally ticked off when an award for damages is not paid in a timely manner and ties up his court yet again.
There are cases where the rebellious party was held in contempt for refusing to pay an award, jailed, had assets seized and auctioned to provide a portion of the compensation due. Granted, that's a one in a million...but it could happen...
Sometimes it becomes a matter of principle. I've been in worse situations and it depends on your state of mind at the time. Been burned and would have fought to the death to get what was owed. And I've been stolen from and decided to let Karma, or the laws of sowing and reaping take their due course. It is an individual choice.
"It should be inherently obvious that all of the stories this user has told has been fabricated. This is your classic scam artist - fraudulent transactions on a coin forum, fake fundraisers for phantom relatives diagnosed with cancer, the list goes on.
To the OP: It's going to take some researching, time and money to take this guy down, but it will be in spectacular fashion if/when you do. I hope you do; the satisfaction of true justice is much more satisfactory than several hundred dollars.
Be a pest to the scammer's local PD until they knock on a door.
First it is a civil matter to the police unless the Postal Inspector makes a claim.
Second, if you read the sellers reply you will see that he states he knows what was sent.
Third, the seller does not state that the coins were not exactly what was sent to the OP.
Forth, the only threat made was by the seller to expect legal action.
This is common of scam artists ( are they really artists if they are getting caught?), they always threaten that an attorney has been called.
Most people pulling a scam keep it under $1000.00 so that most victims will just give up and most do. The seller here needs to refund the OPs money as he will be in deep and I say this because true coin people are very tenacious, sometimes waiting years to find a coin. This being said I can bet that the OP is one such person who will follow through with what he has said. Nothing the OP stated comes anywhere near slanderous so your little blip of legalese about slander is very ill informed and undaunting to anyone on this board. Members here bicker back and forth, call people names and such things but that is how a family acts and a family also helps it's members that have been wronged. THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO PULL A SCAM.
To the OP please keep us informed and those that can help you will as you have seen. I hope you get your money back and that the seller straightens his life out. Hope is the belief that what you want to happen will.
Doesn't the great state of Minnesota have newly added strict laws concerning numismatic/bullion transactions??? Maybe contact his State senators or congress as well as LEO. The fresh wet ink on the bill of the new law should have those politicians eager to help prove their point. Good luck to you and I hope you get your money back.
I'm late looking at this thread, had my own story that turned out OK over a $150 issue.
I did file with the postal inspectors and got this response several days later:
Thank you for contacting the U.S. Postal Inspection Service. The information you provided has been entered into our national Fraud Complaint System. Your reference number is C#1742723. If we need more information, you will be contacted directly. Please hold on to any original documents related to your complaint. Please note that Postal Inspectors do not have the authority to ensure that your losses are refunded. We may share the information you provided with other agencies when there is a possible violation within their jurisdiction. In the future, if you have complaints about mail fraud or mail theft, you can visit our website, http://postalinspectors.uspis.gov, to file a complaint online.
United States Postal Inspection Service
Also, I got this smart response on an advice forum:
One of the great American myths is that collections has the upper hand in this country. Unfortunately, for most small amounts the only way to get it back is to bluff. If the customer is an initiate of the system, they'll recognize the bluff and laugh. If they are new to the game you might get your money or the product back.
What proof do you have of the transaction? Did the other party say anything after the deal, like claiming they didn't get it? In other words, is there something, other than your word, that the coin was requested, shipped and received by the buyer?
If the answer is no, you probably have no recourse at all.
Was this transaction via U.S. Mail? If so:
1. Kindly inform the deadbeat that you are initiating a U.S. Postal Inspector mail fraud investigation. I do mean "kindly." No threats or harsh language. Inform him that part of the process will include a phone call to his local police department. He may freak out and buckle.
2. Initiate a mail fraud investigation through the post office. This will in all probability do nothing. This function is a useless waste of you time. However, most police departments will not initiate any type of report unless you have done this.
3. Call the non-emergency police number in the city where the deadbeat lives. Odds are this will also yield no result. However there is a slim chance of 2 possibilities. The person may be a known trouble maker and the detective might enjoy the opportunity to rattle the guy's cage. If the detective sounds like they aren't going to do anything, see if you can sweet talk them into making a call to your deadbeat.
If that route isn't appealing, you can go the collections route. There are on-line collections agencies that will send the proper legal letters and give the buyer a credit report finding. They typically charge a flat fee and a percentage. It will chew up about $50. If they care about their credit rating you may get paid. If they don't care about their credit rating, it will sit on their credit report for 7 years.
Typically someone willing to rip you off for $150 in this manner fears neither the legal system or collections
If people haven't paid me on the threat to perform legal or collections, rarely will the follow up by those authorities actually work.
I would send a certified demand letter and then pursue it in other recommended ways.
One guy offered to guarantee payment through scandalizing the perpetrator:
Are you willing to take action for $50?
I'll give you the simple step-by-step process - you follow it to a T. It may take time, but I believe that Buffalo nickel or its sale price will eventually come back to you - AND You get the satisfaction of pointing this thief (though you can't say that,) embarrassing him/her/it for a good, long time.
Private email me when interested.
Note: I'm interested in any other 'recovery problems' like this - anyone?
There is more than one way to skin a cat.
Or you could get someone within driving distance knock on his door and try to find out what is going on like PIs do.
I got her number on the wall......for a good time call........
Seriously, mistake No.1 - circumventing PayPal. PayPal is a racket, and it sucks - but it sucks more not to have much recourse when you just lost $750.
I agree with streeter that it's time for the postal inspector. This guy has had some practice (and some success) in ripping people off with convoluted stories, threats & innuendo. Classic antisocial behavior.
I've had some good experiences on BST, and maybe a couple of purchases that were "dumps", but no outright theft. This was outright theft.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Take your case to Judge Judy and show her that messaging log you posted. She won't believe a word of his obviously fabricated story and will rip the guy a new one...
<< <i>Take your case to Judge Judy and show her that messaging log you posted. She won't believe a word of his obviously fabricated story and will rip the guy a new one...
Best of luck to you, >>
I had a small claims issue once against a cosmetics executive that did not pay for a bunch of back-breaking labor for no good reason and would not communicate. So I got a call from "People's Court" that said they would guarantee my claim which was under $1000. I thought that would be a really bad idea for my business to get caught up in that circus. You gotta love all the dummies that take their grievances to national TV. BTW Judge Judy is the #1 paid TV personality, but Judge Wapner thinks she sets a really bad example.
<< <i>I am not going to contact my local PD, I am going to contact his local sheriff's office and the postal inspector. >>
They typically won't care either. In fact, you'll probably get less help from an out of state police force than you will your own jurisdiction. The local USPS PI will have you put your claim on the govt's internet crimes site...where it will linger. If you have a particularly aggressive internet crimes/fraud investigator that handles the seller's region, you might get lucky. Police don't care much about small amounts like this or what is often referred to as white color crime. Your best bet might just be a civil case and hope that the claimant eventually pays you. I had a case ($2K loss) where the seller lifted an auction, sent nothing, and didn't even dispute it. Yet I went through all the avenues you are suggesting and no one lifted a finger, including the local PI. My local police were the most helpful. But, being 1,000 miles from the source of the crime, they really couldn't do anything but file a report. While some forum members have been successful in getting compensated, they are probably in the minority.
Hope you get some recourse. If the seller is a serial scammer the other warrants on them might benefit your case. Good luck.
<< <i>I sent him the following message this afternoon immediately after receiving the package, and he has not responded:
"I strongly suggest you mail me the two Morgan dollars: 78-CC and 81-CC. The package that I just received was video taped while being opened and was not messed with in any way. It has two nickels, a quarter, another quarter in a holder and a presidential dollar in a holder. The police in Lake Elmo, MN will be contacted tomorrow morning if I am not refunded $750 USD to my Paypal account by 9am tomorrow morning. "
I will give his name tomorrow morning. He has nothing else up for sale and has not commented on anything since he defrauded me. >>
I have stated in T3 ripoff thread,, economic times are such that people need money ,are sometimes willing to do anything... Be careful
Unfortunately.. we are in a slow motion silent depression
OP wake up smell the coffee, your exercise in futility can be over if you so choose... And you have to take some responsibility also for making a bad decision in your checks and balances system you used...
<< <i>OP wake up smell the coffee, your exercise in futility can be over if you so choose... And you have to take some responsibility also for making a bad decision in your checks and balances system you used... >>
That was the same advice I was given by various people; "how could you have been so stupid or careless?" "You have only yourself to blame for trusting the guy on the bst". "It is the price of tuition in this business". "fugetaboutit". "How could you have been so stupid?" And other defeatist attitudes.... Turn your anger inward...hit the bottle...etc..
No, follow basic steps and use smart methods to at least identify, penalize and expose the fraud.
In light of the additional posts exposing the potential cancer donation fraud by the seller on another website probably a good idea to alert more authorities.
Seller appears to be a real class act.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
People starting to notice that the scams are coming from the sellers that are getting PPG and the buyers really don't know them (also, the sellers don't have any real history with the forums...and, if they have any time/posts on the forum, it is usually ONLY in the BST).
Like others, I have done more than a few BST transactions. Buying and selling. Sometimes thousands of dollars at once. I have also sold for local friends who wanted to sell. When I am dealing with my own stuff, I am careful. When I am dealing with someone else's, I am even moreso.
I can probably count on 1 or 2 fingers the number of times I have used PPG as a buyer....and I used the "feature" to pay the fee myself so I would (hopefully) be covered, just in case.
Some "deals" are very nice....but at the end of the day, if you're a collector, a few dollars on something that is hundreds of dollars, shouldn't be a deal breaker. Use PP with a fee, for protection. Those that want to play like a dealer, and/or are playing the PM game, the fees make it harder. Sometimes, it is what it is though. Safety isn't free.
from another site posted by 'Gacha' on Nov 26, 2013.
'Like the title says...im looking for a nice looking rainbow toner...a good friend of mine does not have much time left...at all. He has had one hell of a battle with cancer. He was a collector, but not a very big collector especially the past year as his treatment was so damn spendy he sold all he had and couldnt really buy anything but for some reason he LOVED .....'
If you have time, go to 'vamworld' and search "Gacha" in the discussion forums.
Grab a large cup of coffee, put your feet up and get ready to be entertained.
What a show!!
All I have to say is UNBELIEVABLE!!
"Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
<< <i>...The postal inspector is the general branch that investigates fraud or other possible criminal activity involving the USPS. >>
While that's generally true, my local USPS PI told me the local town branches do not investigate internet mail fraud. Those complaints get uploaded to the govt's website where a regional investigator/inspector deems whether a case(s) are worthy or not. My local PI said he could do nothing for me except give me their internet crimes website address to upload my complaint. It ain't the 1980's any more. Being "responsible" for something and actually doing something about it are 2 totally different things. What I learned is that if you want to do internet mail fraud....the Atlanta area is a good one to work out of.
Hey everybody! I am throwing a benefit for my Godson Tyler and his parents. A few years ago Tyler was diagnosed with Epilepsy. It has been a very long and difficult road for his family. Tyler has1 younger sister and 2 younger brothers. On good days (not very often) he has about 25 siezures but typically its about 100. Doctors are having a hard time treating him as its (from what i understand) so deep in the brain its not really showing up on scans. He has been at Childrens Hospital for most of this time. Pat, his father is a blue collar worker whos insurance doesnt help too much. Tanya, his mom takes care of the kids daily. With everything that's been happening Pat has had to take off work, even tho he hates to and tries not to (only income) its his son...he needs to be there. Medical bills are...well huge. Of course life doesnt stop and daily living bills are piling up too. They have done all they can to pay the bills. (no cable, 1 phone, etc) Tyler is a candidate for a new surgery. Its not proven but it seems to be his best chance for a normal life, a normal childhood. Of course its not cheap and being brain surgery, comes with risks. With that im throwing a benefit on March 1st to help with bills, and to pay for this surgery. Ive been able to secure a donated space to hold the event, as well as numerous gift cards, baskets, sports memorabilia, sports tickets, as well as numerous items from myself, etc to put up for auction at the benefit...which has been fantastic but im hoping to really fill those tables up. Im also putting stuff up such as coins (from myself and a few others) on internet auction sites. I feel it would get more exposure that way. I hate asking for things...but This is for a fantastic 10 year old boy and its family! So i ask, if anybody has anything they are willing to donate for this benefit please, let me know! Items, gift cards, gift baskets, even prayers are much appreciated! I can provide an address.I wish i could invite all of you but im in MN & everybody is living all over the country. Thank you for reading, i appreciate you. Please keep Ty Ty and his Family in your thoughts and prayers!
<< <i>...The postal inspector is the general branch that investigates fraud or other possible criminal activity involving the USPS. >>
While that's generally true, my local USPS PI told me the local town branches do not investigate internet mail fraud. Those complaints get uploaded to the govt's website where a regional investigator/inspector deems whether a case(s) are worthy or not. My local PI said he could do nothing for me except give me their internet crimes website address to upload my complaint. It ain't the 1980's any more. Being "responsible" for something and actually doing something about it are 2 totally different things. What I learned is that if you want to do internet mail fraud....the Atlanta area is a good one to work out of. >>
I was just trying to point out to rawteam that while the name says inspector, that doesn't necessarily mean that's what they do. They don't inspect anything. The OIG "Office of Inspector General" likely derives its name from the use of Inspector as a police rank.
<< <i>from another site posted by 'Gacha' on Nov 26, 2013.
'Like the title says...im looking for a nice looking rainbow toner...a good friend of mine does not have much time left...at all. He has had one hell of a battle with cancer. He was a collector, but not a very big collector especially the past year as his treatment was so damn spendy he sold all he had and couldnt really buy anything but for some reason he LOVED .....'
If you have time, go to 'vamworld' and search "Gacha" in the discussion forums.
Grab a large cup of coffee, put your feet up and get ready to be entertained.
What a show!!
All I have to say is UNBELIEVABLE!! >>
Interesting that after stating he would have to sell his coins for medical treatment, and soliciting coin donations.....he's back to buying for his own collection a couple months later? ...........And just before fundraisers started burglars hit and stole everything from him. Talk about bad luck. With all the different benefits and fundraisers that Johnny is part of it's hard to keep track of which of his coins, firearms, and sports memorabilia are coming or going at any time, not to mention the incoming "donations."
<< <i>...The postal inspector is the general branch that investigates fraud or other possible criminal activity involving the USPS. >>
While that's generally true, my local USPS PI told me the local town branches do not investigate internet mail fraud. Those complaints get uploaded to the govt's website where a regional investigator/inspector deems whether a case(s) are worthy or not. My local PI said he could do nothing for me except give me their internet crimes website address to upload my complaint. It ain't the 1980's any more. Being "responsible" for something and actually doing something about it are 2 totally different things. What I learned is that if you want to do internet mail fraud....the Atlanta area is a good one to work out of. >>
I was just trying to point out to rawteam that while the name says inspector, that doesn't necessarily mean that's what they do. They don't inspect anything. The OIG "Office of Inspector General" likely derives its name from the use of Inspector as a police rank. >>
Let me introduce you to a dictionary.... Look up humor...
Comments
Interesting
Name Change
The Whisker Cheek Collection - Top 50 Peace VAM Registry
Landmark Buffalo Collection
<< <i>Is this the same person?
Interesting
Name Change >>
Yes, I posted that on the previous page. Draw your own conclusions...
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins]
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<< <i>
<< <i>If you have this gentleman's full name, you can do a criminal check on him in the state of Minnesota.
Here is the link. Just an FYI.
I also found it interesting that someone who was apparently on his deathbed 8 months ago or so is now working from 345am until past 530pm (when post offices close in Minnesota).
I'm not making any nefarious accusations, I'm just saying Google is pretty powerful, even when you're just going on a screen name.
Good luck to both parties in figuring out this hairy situation. >>
wow, a real class act! >>
In the above post his sister is accepting donations for his medical bills...in the link below he is looking for donations for his sick grandson: (he also changed his user id on the vam forum 3-19-2015)
Another post looking for donations for godson
My daughter was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at the age of 2 (2003). My son was diagnosed with Type 1 when he was 17 on December 31, 2009. We were stunned that another child of ours had been diagnosed. Please, if you don't have a favorite charity, consider giving to the JDRF (Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation)
JDRF Donation
<< <i>Is this the same person?
Interesting
Name Change >>
The aroma sure is similar.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>If you have this gentleman's full name, you can do a criminal check on him in the state of Minnesota.
Here is the link. Just an FYI.
I also found it interesting that someone who was apparently on his deathbed 8 months ago or so is now working from 345am until past 530pm (when post offices close in Minnesota).
I'm not making any nefarious accusations, I'm just saying Google is pretty powerful, even when you're just going on a screen name.
Good luck to both parties in figuring out this hairy situation. >>
wow, a real class act! >>
In the above post his sister is accepting donations for his medical bills...in the link below he is looking for donations for his sick grandson: (he also changed his user id on the vam forum 3-19-2015)
Another post looking for donations for godson >>
It's getting deep in here...
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins]
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
You know...what I am...saying!
The Whisker Cheek Collection - Top 50 Peace VAM Registry
Landmark Buffalo Collection
<< <i>A graphologist would most likely say....all one and the same!
You know...what I am...saying! >>
Does 'Jenny' exist??
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>
<< <i>A graphologist would most likely say....all one and the same!
You know...what I am...saying! >>
Does 'Jenny' exist?? >>
Try calling 867-5309 to see if she answers
<< <i>
<< <i>A graphologist would most likely say....all one and the same!
You know...what I am...saying! >>
Does 'Jenny' exist?? >>
If she does, she writes exactly like her brother.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
I don't think opening a package in from of a postal employee is going to do you much good in court. The post office would probably make it difficult for the employee to go to court for you, and when a package spends 3 to 5 days in the system your video just shows a couple of minutes out of thousands, does not prove the sender did it.
All said I hate to see anyone get ripped off.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
It is truly unfortunate that events such as this gets everyone on edge about the BST. I imagine there are hundreds (thousands?) of transactions accomplished there for every one of these nefarious scandals. There are some very good people conducting business there and it has been a privilege to interact with the parties from whom I have acquired coins.
I think it is abundantly clear who is the victim in this case. I hope you get a satisfactory resolution!
<< <i>By the way, the PO does weigh the packages exactly. I don't know how to get that info but if 2 silver dollars and the envelope weigh more than the package that was accepted by his PO, you got this guy, at least in small claims court. >>
The package weight is recorded on the receipt [even if it is a flat rate box/envelope] that the sender gets from the clerk. It doesn't show when you plug in tracking # 9114901230803073283196, but it's possible that the USPS tracking system may have it.
To the OP: It's going to take some researching, time and money to take this guy down, but it will be in spectacular fashion if/when you do. I hope you do; the satisfaction of true justice is much more satisfactory than several hundred dollars.
Be a pest to the scammer's local PD until they knock on a door.
Let us know what we can do.
Check out my iPhone app SlabReader!
The lad stated he is in the "recovery business". AKA he is a tow truck driver. From what I've seen in SoCal, a lot of drivers think they have some affiliation with PD and start to morph their personality to PD worship. A delusional tendency. He may very well believe he is above the law because he does involuntary tows- where the PD directs the job and not the RO.
He is not LEO.
Time for the postal inspector.
<< <i>Time for the postal inspector. >>
What? He's gonna inspect something... Better to call CI Jacques Clouseau...
<< <i>Although an interesting story, the OP best just chalk it up as a loss like losing in Vegas , cause you have already wasted more than the money amount in time and energy, especially when there is no possible recourse whatsoever that can be enforced... >>
I completely disagree. He can get the postal inspector involved. Several individuals provided a compelling example of getting justice through that avenue. Absolute worst case scenario, he gets a judgment in Small Claims court. The defendant can refuse to pay, and the victim may never get his money. But if so motivated, can put liens on personal property, and if he's very very lucky, land a judge that comes royally ticked off when an award for damages is not paid in a timely manner and ties up his court yet again.
There are cases where the rebellious party was held in contempt for refusing to pay an award, jailed, had assets seized and auctioned to provide a portion of the compensation due. Granted, that's a one in a million...but it could happen...
Sometimes it becomes a matter of principle. I've been in worse situations and it depends on your state of mind at the time. Been burned and would have fought to the death to get what was owed. And I've been stolen from and decided to let Karma, or the laws of sowing and reaping take their due course. It is an individual choice.
"It should be inherently obvious that all of the stories this user has told has been fabricated. This is your classic scam artist - fraudulent transactions on a coin forum, fake fundraisers for phantom relatives diagnosed with cancer, the list goes on.
To the OP: It's going to take some researching, time and money to take this guy down, but it will be in spectacular fashion if/when you do. I hope you do; the satisfaction of true justice is much more satisfactory than several hundred dollars.
Be a pest to the scammer's local PD until they knock on a door.
Let us know what we can do.""
What Mach1ne said! Yes!
First it is a civil matter to the police unless the Postal Inspector makes a claim.
Second, if you read the sellers reply you will see that he states he knows what was sent.
Third, the seller does not state that the coins were not exactly what was sent to the OP.
Forth, the only threat made was by the seller to expect legal action.
This is common of scam artists ( are they really artists if they are getting caught?), they always threaten that an attorney has been called.
Most people pulling a scam keep it under $1000.00 so that most victims will just give up and most do. The seller here needs to refund the OPs money as he will be in deep and I say this because true coin people are very tenacious, sometimes waiting years to find a coin. This being said I can bet that the OP is one such person who will follow through with what he has said. Nothing the OP stated comes anywhere near slanderous so your little blip of legalese about slander is very ill informed and undaunting to anyone on this board. Members here bicker back and forth, call people names and such things but that is how a family acts and a family also helps it's members that have been wronged. THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO PULL A SCAM.
To the OP please keep us informed and those that can help you will as you have seen. I hope you get your money back and that the seller straightens his life out. Hope is the belief that what you want to happen will.
I did file with the postal inspectors and got this response several days later:
Thank you for contacting the U.S. Postal Inspection Service. The information you provided has been entered into our national Fraud Complaint System. Your reference number is C#1742723. If we need more information, you will be contacted directly. Please hold on to any original documents related to your complaint.
Please note that Postal Inspectors do not have the authority to ensure that your losses are refunded.
We may share the information you provided with other agencies when there is a possible violation within their jurisdiction.
In the future, if you have complaints about mail fraud or mail theft, you can visit our website, http://postalinspectors.uspis.gov, to file a complaint online.
United States Postal Inspection Service
Also, I got this smart response on an advice forum:
One of the great American myths is that collections has the upper hand in this country. Unfortunately, for most small amounts the only way to get it back is to bluff. If the customer is an initiate of the system, they'll recognize the bluff and laugh. If they are new to the game you might get your money or the product back.
What proof do you have of the transaction? Did the other party say anything after the deal, like claiming they didn't get it? In other words, is there something, other than your word, that the coin was requested, shipped and received by the buyer?
If the answer is no, you probably have no recourse at all.
Was this transaction via U.S. Mail? If so:
1. Kindly inform the deadbeat that you are initiating a U.S. Postal Inspector mail fraud investigation. I do mean "kindly." No threats or harsh language. Inform him that part of the process will include a phone call to his local police department. He may freak out and buckle.
2. Initiate a mail fraud investigation through the post office. This will in all probability do nothing. This function is a useless waste of you time. However, most police departments will not initiate any type of report unless you have done this.
3. Call the non-emergency police number in the city where the deadbeat lives. Odds are this will also yield no result. However there is a slim chance of 2 possibilities. The person may be a known trouble maker and the detective might enjoy the opportunity to rattle the guy's cage. If the detective sounds like they aren't going to do anything, see if you can sweet talk them into making a call to your deadbeat.
If that route isn't appealing, you can go the collections route. There are on-line collections agencies that will send the proper legal letters and give the buyer a credit report finding. They typically charge a flat fee and a percentage. It will chew up about $50. If they care about their credit rating you may get paid. If they don't care about their credit rating, it will sit on their credit report for 7 years.
Typically someone willing to rip you off for $150 in this manner fears neither the legal system or collections
If people haven't paid me on the threat to perform legal or collections, rarely will the follow up by those authorities actually work.
I would send a certified demand letter and then pursue it in other recommended ways.
One guy offered to guarantee payment through scandalizing the perpetrator:
Are you willing to take action for $50?
I'll give you the simple step-by-step process - you follow it to a T.
It may take time, but I believe that Buffalo nickel or its sale price will eventually come back to you - AND
You get the satisfaction of pointing this thief (though you can't say that,) embarrassing him/her/it for a good, long time.
Private email me when interested.
Note: I'm interested in any other 'recovery problems' like this - anyone?
There is more than one way to skin a cat.
Or you could get someone within driving distance knock on his door and try to find out what is going on like PIs do.
Try calling 867-5309 to see if she answers
I got her number on the wall......for a good time call........
Seriously, mistake No.1 - circumventing PayPal. PayPal is a racket, and it sucks - but it sucks more not to have much recourse when you just lost $750.
I agree with streeter that it's time for the postal inspector. This guy has had some practice (and some success) in ripping people off with convoluted stories, threats & innuendo. Classic antisocial behavior.
I've had some good experiences on BST, and maybe a couple of purchases that were "dumps", but no outright theft. This was outright theft.
I knew it would happen.
Best of luck to you,
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
<< <i>Take your case to Judge Judy and show her that messaging log you posted. She won't believe a word of his obviously fabricated story and will rip the guy a new one...
Best of luck to you, >>
I had a small claims issue once against a cosmetics executive that did not pay for a bunch of back-breaking labor for no good reason and would not communicate. So I got a call from "People's Court" that said they would guarantee my claim which was under $1000. I thought that would be a really bad idea for my business to get caught up in that circus. You gotta love all the dummies that take their grievances to national TV. BTW Judge Judy is the #1 paid TV personality, but Judge Wapner thinks she sets a really bad example.
<< <i>I am not going to contact my local PD, I am going to contact his local sheriff's office and the postal inspector. >>
They typically won't care either. In fact, you'll probably get less help from an out of state police force than you will your own jurisdiction. The local USPS PI will have you put your claim on the govt's internet crimes site...where it will linger. If you have a particularly aggressive internet crimes/fraud investigator that handles the seller's region, you might get lucky. Police don't care much about small amounts like this or what is often referred to as white color crime. Your best bet might just be a civil case and hope that the claimant eventually pays you. I had a case ($2K loss) where the seller lifted an auction, sent nothing, and didn't even dispute it. Yet I went through all the avenues you are suggesting and no one lifted a finger, including the local PI. My local police were the most helpful. But, being 1,000 miles from the source of the crime, they really couldn't do anything but file a report. While some forum members have been successful in getting compensated, they are probably in the minority.
Hope you get some recourse. If the seller is a serial scammer the other warrants on them might benefit your case. Good luck.
Have a Great Day!
Louis
<< <i>I sent him the following message this afternoon immediately after receiving the package, and he has not responded:
"I strongly suggest you mail me the two Morgan dollars: 78-CC and 81-CC. The package that I just received was video taped while being opened and was not messed with in any way. It has two nickels, a quarter, another quarter in a holder and a presidential dollar in a holder. The police in Lake Elmo, MN will be contacted tomorrow morning if I am not refunded $750 USD to my Paypal account by 9am tomorrow morning. "
I will give his name tomorrow morning. He has nothing else up for sale and has not commented on anything since he defrauded me. >>
I have stated in T3 ripoff thread,, economic times are such that people need money ,are sometimes willing to do anything... Be careful
Unfortunately.. we are in a slow motion silent depression
<< <i>
<< <i>Time for the postal inspector. >>
What? He's gonna inspect something... Better to call CI Jacques Clouseau... >>
The postal inspector is the general branch that investigates fraud or other possible criminal activity involving the USPS.
And you have to take some responsibility also for making a bad decision in your checks and balances system you used...
<< <i>OP wake up smell the coffee, your exercise in futility can be over if you so choose...
And you have to take some responsibility also for making a bad decision in your checks and balances system you used... >>
That was the same advice I was given by various people; "how could you have been so stupid or careless?" "You have only yourself to blame for trusting the guy on the bst". "It is the price of tuition in this business". "fugetaboutit". "How could you have been so stupid?" And other defeatist attitudes.... Turn your anger inward...hit the bottle...etc..
No, follow basic steps and use smart methods to at least identify, penalize and expose the fraud.
Seller appears to be a real class act.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
Like others, I have done more than a few BST transactions. Buying and selling. Sometimes thousands of dollars at once. I have also sold for local friends who wanted to sell. When I am dealing with my own stuff, I am careful. When I am dealing with someone else's, I am even moreso.
I can probably count on 1 or 2 fingers the number of times I have used PPG as a buyer....and I used the "feature" to pay the fee myself so I would (hopefully) be covered, just in case.
Some "deals" are very nice....but at the end of the day, if you're a collector, a few dollars on something that is hundreds of dollars, shouldn't be a deal breaker. Use PP with a fee, for protection. Those that want to play like a dealer, and/or are playing the PM game, the fees make it harder. Sometimes, it is what it is though. Safety isn't free.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
Coin Club Benefit auctions ..... View the Lots
'Like the title says...im looking for a nice looking rainbow toner...a good friend of mine does not have much time left...at all. He has had one hell of a battle with cancer. He was a collector, but not a very big collector especially the past year as his treatment was so damn spendy he sold all he had and couldnt really buy anything but for some reason he LOVED .....'
If you have time, go to 'vamworld' and search "Gacha" in the discussion forums.
Grab a large cup of coffee, put your feet up and get ready to be entertained.
What a show!!
All I have to say is UNBELIEVABLE!!
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>...The postal inspector is the general branch that investigates fraud or other possible criminal activity involving the USPS. >>
While that's generally true, my local USPS PI told me the local town branches do not investigate internet mail fraud. Those complaints get uploaded to the govt's website where a regional investigator/inspector deems whether a case(s) are worthy or not. My local PI said he could do nothing for me except give me their internet crimes website address to upload my complaint. It ain't the 1980's any more. Being "responsible" for something and actually doing something about it are 2 totally different things. What I learned is that if you want to do internet mail fraud....the Atlanta area is a good one to work out of.
<< <i>
Does 'Jenny' exist?? >>
If she does, she writes exactly like her brother. >>
Wow... They seem even closer then peas & carrots
Hey everybody! I am throwing a benefit for my Godson Tyler and his parents. A few years ago Tyler was diagnosed with Epilepsy. It has been a very long and difficult road for his family. Tyler has1 younger sister and 2 younger brothers. On good days (not very often) he has about 25 siezures but typically its about 100. Doctors are having a hard time treating him as its (from what i understand) so deep in the brain its not really showing up on scans. He has been at Childrens Hospital for most of this time. Pat, his father is a blue collar worker whos insurance doesnt help too much. Tanya, his mom takes care of the kids daily. With everything that's been happening Pat has had to take off work, even tho he hates to and tries not to (only income) its his son...he needs to be there. Medical bills are...well huge. Of course life doesnt stop and daily living bills are piling up too. They have done all they can to pay the bills. (no cable, 1 phone, etc)
Tyler is a candidate for a new surgery. Its not proven but it seems to be his best chance for a normal life, a normal childhood. Of course its not cheap and being brain surgery, comes with risks. With that im throwing a benefit on March 1st to help with bills, and to pay for this surgery. Ive been able to secure a donated space to hold the event, as well as numerous gift cards, baskets, sports memorabilia, sports tickets, as well as numerous items from myself, etc to put up for auction at the benefit...which has been fantastic but im hoping to really fill those tables up. Im also putting stuff up such as coins (from myself and a few others) on internet auction sites. I feel it would get more exposure that way. I hate asking for things...but This is for a fantastic 10 year old boy and its family! So i ask, if anybody has anything they are willing to donate for this benefit please, let me know! Items, gift cards, gift baskets, even prayers are much appreciated! I can provide an address.I wish i could invite all of you but im in MN & everybody is living all over the country. Thank you for reading, i appreciate you. Please keep Ty Ty and his Family in your thoughts and prayers!
Johnny
(Jabbss651)
<< <i>
<< <i>...The postal inspector is the general branch that investigates fraud or other possible criminal activity involving the USPS. >>
While that's generally true, my local USPS PI told me the local town branches do not investigate internet mail fraud. Those complaints get uploaded to the govt's website where a regional investigator/inspector deems whether a case(s) are worthy or not. My local PI said he could do nothing for me except give me their internet crimes website address to upload my complaint. It ain't the 1980's any more. Being "responsible" for something and actually doing something about it are 2 totally different things. What I learned is that if you want to do internet mail fraud....the Atlanta area is a good one to work out of. >>
I was just trying to point out to rawteam that while the name says inspector, that doesn't necessarily mean that's what they do. They don't inspect anything. The OIG "Office of Inspector General" likely derives its name from the use of Inspector as a police rank.
<< <i>from another site posted by 'Gacha' on Nov 26, 2013.
'Like the title says...im looking for a nice looking rainbow toner...a good friend of mine does not have much time left...at all. He has had one hell of a battle with cancer. He was a collector, but not a very big collector especially the past year as his treatment was so damn spendy he sold all he had and couldnt really buy anything but for some reason he LOVED .....'
If you have time, go to 'vamworld' and search "Gacha" in the discussion forums.
Grab a large cup of coffee, put your feet up and get ready to be entertained.
What a show!!
All I have to say is UNBELIEVABLE!! >>
Interesting that after stating he would have to sell his coins for medical treatment, and soliciting coin donations.....he's back to buying for his own collection a couple months later?
Vam World - we gacha
Burglars hit....and wouldn't ya know it, Johnny keeps no records, no receipts, no inventory list, nada.
Worthy of a Twilight Zone episode
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>...The postal inspector is the general branch that investigates fraud or other possible criminal activity involving the USPS. >>
While that's generally true, my local USPS PI told me the local town branches do not investigate internet mail fraud. Those complaints get uploaded to the govt's website where a regional investigator/inspector deems whether a case(s) are worthy or not. My local PI said he could do nothing for me except give me their internet crimes website address to upload my complaint. It ain't the 1980's any more. Being "responsible" for something and actually doing something about it are 2 totally different things. What I learned is that if you want to do internet mail fraud....the Atlanta area is a good one to work out of. >>
I was just trying to point out to rawteam that while the name says inspector, that doesn't necessarily mean that's what they do. They don't inspect anything. The OIG "Office of Inspector General" likely derives its name from the use of Inspector as a police rank. >>
Let me introduce you to a dictionary.... Look up humor...
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