Roty's Sower - 1 Franc Series

brg5658 · March 11, 2015 11:38AM

Some 3 years ago I decided to work (slowly) on a date series set of France 1 Franc Sowers (semeuse in French) from 1898-1920. The design is one that I have long counted among my favorites of modern world coins. Beyond the design of this series, I am a fan of the artistry of Louis-Oscar Roty in general. It helps that I share the same birthday with Roty (June 11th), but I was also fascinated by his influence on Victor David Brenner (of Lincoln Cent fame), and the eventual importance of the Sower in influencing the design of the US Walking Liberty Half dollar (another one of my favorite designs).

The silver 1 Franc coin was issued each year from 1898 through 1920. The "keys" of the set are 1900, 1903, and the 1914-C -- each with relatively small mintages and are quite difficult (and pricey) in MS grades.

My set is still small, but this week I was very pleased to add a matte proof 1 Franc from 1898 to my growing set (proofs were struck only for years 1898 and 1900). It is a nice juxtaposition with my regular strike 1898 coin. I have been very picky about coins I acquire for this set, so that makes the progress even slower...but I'm going for a particular "look" to the set and I'm in no hurry.

Thanks for looking, and if you have any Sowers please post them here! I can't get enough of the design!

Regards, Brandon

Zohar · March 11, 2015 11:50AM

Doesn't get any better than this selection. Never seen the matte finish which is very appealing. Keep it up!

JCMhouston · March 11, 2015 12:26PM

Very nice, I do love the matte proof look.

jfoot13 · March 11, 2015 1:20PM

impressive

PatAR · March 11, 2015 1:51PM

Each coin uniquely beautiful!

Well done!

Weiss · March 11, 2015 2:01PM

Outstanding. Great eye for gorgeous pieces and great photos.

NiceCurrency · March 11, 2015 2:14PM

beautiful pieces, I like this design as well

bronzemat · March 11, 2015 2:39PM

Great stuff. I love the design too. I picked up a 2f last week, 1918. I already had a 1918 1f. I'm just doing a small birth year of my late grandmother.

lordmarcovan · March 11, 2015 3:04PM

It's certainly a lovely design.

The matte proof format, while interesting, doesn't do much for me vis-a-vis the business strikes. I sort of feel that way about matte proof coins in general. That is a nice example, though. Is the designer's name incuse on the proofs? Looks like it.

My favorite is your 1898 MS65, though I would imagine most would go for the 1919 MS66 coin (with good reason).

From what little browsing I've done in the past, I noticed these Sowers seem pretty affordable in MS. Perhaps not so cheap as Imperial German marks of the same period, but mostly budget-friendly. (Except the keys, I'm sure.)

Does NGC have a Registry for these?

Nice work... keep it up!

coinkat · March 11, 2015 8:15PM

nice

brg5658 · March 11, 2015 11:00PM

<< <i>It's certainly a lovely design.

The matte proof format, while interesting, doesn't do much for me vis-a-vis the business strikes. I sort of feel that way about matte proof coins in general. That is a nice example, though. Is the designer's name incuse on the proofs? Looks like it.

My favorite is your 1898 MS65, though I would imagine most would go for the 1919 MS66 coin (with good reason).

From what little browsing I've done in the past, I noticed these Sowers seem pretty affordable in MS. Perhaps not so cheap as Imperial German marks of the same period, but mostly budget-friendly. (Except the keys, I'm sure.)

Does NGC have a Registry for these?

Nice work... keep it up! >>

Hi Lordmarcovan - all of the sowers from this era have the "O. Roty" incuse...not just the proofs.

The Sowers in MS are mostly affordable. The proofs are more expensive, and the coins before 1911 will cost you more than those after. The 1914-C franc (the only issue not minted in Paris) will set you back around $1K in MS. The 1903 is similar.

I'm confident/hopeful I can complete the set for around $5K total in the condition and look I want -- it's just a matter of waiting to find that.

STLNATS · March 12, 2015 12:08AM

That proof is a beauty. I like the design and have picked up a few of the common dates but haven't seen many as nice as yours. Its interesting that they continued to strike the silvers into 1920 while I assume that the franc continued to devalue. Congrats on the coins and id'ing an interesting project.

STLNATS · March 12, 2015 12:09AM

argh, double post...altho maybe warranted since these coins as twice as nice!

GotTheBug · March 12, 2015 2:22AM

.

DaveG · March 14, 2015 1:10PM

I love Roty's medals, where his artistry in rather low relief really shines, but I've always thought that the Sower was in too low relief to be impressive.

I'm delighted to see the proof, however, since it really shows off the subtle details of the design.

I don't think I'd ever be interested in purchasing a business strike coin, but I'd really love to get a proof some time!

davidrj · March 14, 2015 9:25PM

One of my favorite designs too, which was reprised for the cupronickel francs 1959-2001, but what were they thinking of when they did this on the Euro series?

[URL=http://s593.photobucket.com/user/microtome/media/sowerbyroty.jpg.html]

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Bjorn · March 15, 2015 5:31AM

Very nice pieces. I am working on a date/mm collection of French coins from 1795 onward (which I will likely never complete), and can sympathize with finding high grade specimens before 1914 (except the 1898 and 1899). I'll post my better ones in a day or two, but they aren't as nice as the OP's.

-Bjorn

EVillageProwler · March 15, 2015 8:32AM

I know nothing of this series, but these are quite attractive to my eye.

It's nice to see one being able to build a kick-arse set without needing Farouk's (or Pogue's) resources.

Nice job with the coins as well as the images.

Just remembered this question: what is the size of these 1Fr pieces? Can you compare to a U.S. coin please?

EVP

STLNATS · March 15, 2015 8:52AM

<< <i>.

Just remembered this question: what is the size of these 1Fr pieces? Can you compare to a U.S. coin please?

EVP >>

A little smaller than a quarter at 5 gms which is 83.5% silver.

coinkat · March 15, 2015 8:05PM

EVP- There is a larger 2 fR series from basically the same time frame

STLNATS · March 15, 2015 11:00PM

<< <i>EVP- There is a larger 2 fR series from basically the same time frame >>

And a silver 50 centime rounds out the series.

marcmoish · March 19, 2015 10:19PM

Always loved this one - what a beautiful (and well graded) group - the 1898 is my fav but they all rock period - enjoy!

Typetone · March 20, 2015 2:32AM

Hi Everyone:

I thought I would jump in after a hiatus of many years without a post.

I have been collecting the 1F sower series since 2002 - and still need the 00 and 03 in MS condition. I am also working on 50c and 2F sower sets and 1c, 2c, 5c, and 10c Dupuis sets. They are the Typetone sets in the registry. My goal was to complete each set in MS60 or better. So far, I have only finished the 50c set.

Why am I collecting these coins? After many years of slogging through U.S. registry sets, I kind of got tired of the rat race - looking for small upgrades, caring more about the plastic instead of the coin. etc, etc. One day I noticed a sower coin at a local coin dealer. I loved the look! Soon I realized they are the coin on which our 50c Walkers are based. I picked up a used copy of the Kraus world coin book and started looking through all of the coins in the entire world! I decided the coins I liked the most were the sowers, the Dupuis group, French angels, and French roosters. Since I am not much of a gold collector, I decided to focus on the sower and Dupuis series. The first surprise was that for similar rarity (based on mintage), these beautiful French coins were available at a fraction of the cost of comparable U.S. coins (probably the Barber coins). You can still pick up a common date sower in 65-66 for under $100. Compare to the price of a common date Barber quarter at say $1000 in 65. The second surprise is that grade is not as important in France as in the U.S. Basically, there are three mint state grades. SUP (superior) usually means something between AU58 and MS61, SPL (splendide) means something like MS62 to MS 63, while FDC (Fleur de Coin) means MS 64 or better. Nobody really cares about small upgrades. There is not much difference in market price between say a 65 and 66 coin. I only consider upgrades when the coin is better and there is at least a full 2 grade improvement.

The main challenge is finding the coins in any MS grade. Few U.S. dealers that I know of handle these coins on a regular basis. Material comes up on Ebay, but for the most part they are common dates or raw. From time to time a French dealer lists a better date - you have to get on those fast. I find that I have to risk buying raw coins sight unseen. Of course, many of those get dinged by PCGS. You can try finding a French dealer to work with, but it is easier if you speak and write French. Actually this challenge is more fun than the challenge of the small upgrade that is needed in the U.S. registry set world.

If you want only MS pieces I don't think you can do the set for under $5,000. The stoppers are the 14-C, the 00, and the 03. I have never been offered one but am told to expect to pay about $2,500 for the 00 in entry MS grades. Same for the 03. I think I paid $1,800 for my 14-C in 64. I you want to stay under $5,000 consider the 2F or 50c sets. The 2 Francs are magnificent. The only real stopper is the 00. I think I paid $2,000 for my 65. There was a decent certified 63 on the cgb site (French dealer) for about $1,000 I think. Maybe it is still there (sorry its sold, I just checked for it). All the Dupuis sets except the 5c (1921 is almost impossible) can probably be done for under $5,000 in MS.

Here is the link to my set. The pic of the 14-c is terrible but the other illustrate what I am trying for.

Best of luck with your collections.

Greg

http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/publishedset.aspx?s=66626

brg5658 · March 25, 2015 3:29AM

@Typetone: Great summary and post with regard to these series. I really appreciate your input here. You have a wonderful set of these Sowers.

==============

I did find another common year coin that caught my eye in the past few weeks. Slow and steady...

brg5658 · October 21, 2015 6:31AM

Just a bit of an update -- over the past 6 months or so I have acquired 2 more dates.

SYRACUSIAN · October 21, 2015 7:30AM

I love the 1898 MS65. I've sold a set on these boards, (half, one, two francs toned and raw to another member and they all graded PCGS MS65). The buying price of the raw set was 300 euros hammer that went up to 385 with commission, handling ,shipping and pp surcharge because I was unable to send a wire due to capital controls... I've sold it at a loss, but it found a VERY good home, of a good member who's a discerning collector and I regret missing a chance to meet him in person during the summer in 2014.

I'm too not very fond of the pricey matte proof version of 1898, and I wonder if your coin has a cosmicdebris original pedigree. Indeed the 1914-c that mudskippie posted among the best designs in the world is the only post 1910 date that is costly, otherwise most halves,ones and twos from the late 1910s can be obtained for a very reasonable price. Clearly there are hoards of them, but who cares when the toning and the technical grade are so nice?

Give me as many nicely toned and dripping with luster MS68 1920 Swiss francs as you can, another famous hoarded European coin, readily available upto at least 67 and I will be eternally grateful.

The French Sower design reappeared in silver in 5 francs in the early 60s, but I have yet to see an attractively toned design. I like most gold versions, I saw recently a late 1970s pied fort selling for above $3K but I do not like the gold non circular versions and as for the flat dull euro design it's such a shame...... I believe the "last franc" in 2000, was also a gold one franc with the sower design, that must be readily available, but the gold coins have no attractive toning and are unreasonably expensive. All euro using countries minted a gold commem with their dying old coin I think, there's a gold drachma too, imitating the last copper design that circulated in the 1990s.

Great set and as usual, superb photos. I now remember that you provide a photographic service to members who want their coins imaged, right?

If memory serves, LordM must have had some of his coins imaged by you as must have done ajaan, before he finally acquired the skills to image coins digitally with a camera, still depriving them of any luster that they have, thus turning the image similar to the scanners' result of the 1990s, early 2000s.

PS: Building a date set of identical designs, reveal your collecting past as a Litesider, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'm more of a type set guy, trying to avoid building sets of the same design, with one single exception, the Geo V, VI and Eliz II farthings that I've built in a short period of time, now that farthings from that era are still relatively easy to locate in full red or almost full red, and only because I've won a 1951 PCGS MS65RD on Teletrade, by pure coincidence on the very day that my half English, half Greek daughter was born. I took it as a sign and I've built it for her, then I certified it by PCGS . Most of the later coins are still worth less than their plastic, but this won't be the case in 15-20 years from now, judging from the pennies and half pennies, and that unforgettable sale of a 1900 and a 1901 66 RD penny for ~$1000 a piece 2-3 years ago....

brg5658 · October 21, 2015 11:07AM

Originally posted by: SYRACUSIAN

Great set and as usual, superb photos. I now remember that you provide a photographic service to members who want their coins imaged, right?

If memory serves, LordM must have had some of his coins imaged by you as must have done ajaan, before he finally acquired the skills to image coins digitally with a camera, still depriving them of any luster that they have, thus turning the image similar to the scanners' result of the 1990s, early 2000s.

Nope, I have never photographed coins for ajaan or LordM's coins. I also don't offer a photographic service, but I have imaged some coins for friends from the forums (but not for pay).

Originally posted by: SYRACUSIAN

PS: Building a date set of identical designs, reveal your collecting past as a Litesider, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'm more of a type set guy, trying to avoid building sets of the same design...

Possibly, but I don't actively collect any other coin (US or non-US) by series except this one. I've always leaned toward type collecting or thematic collecting. Collecting multiple examples of the same coin with only different dates has never appealed much to me -- it always felt like "plugging holes" and was quite boring. I decided to do this set because I knew I could find most dates with unique toning / looks, and because I share a birthday with their designer (June 11, Louis Oscar Roty).

SeattleSlammer · October 21, 2015 11:51AM

Absolutely great group of gorgeous examples. Thanks for sharing.

Zohar · October 21, 2015 12:06PM

Some top end stuff here. Dimitri love the domain expertise

SYRACUSIAN · October 22, 2015 3:37AM

Originally posted by: brg5658

Originally posted by: SYRACUSIAN
Great set and as usual, superb photos. I now remember that you provide a photographic service to members who want their coins imaged, right?

If memory serves, LordM must have had some of his coins imaged by you as must have done ajaan, before he finally acquired the skills to image coins digitally with a camera, still depriving them of any luster that they have, thus turning the image similar to the scanners' result of the 1990s, early 2000s.

Nope, I have never photographed coins for ajaan or LordM's coins. I also don't offer a photographic service, but I have imaged some coins for friends from the forums (but not for pay).

My bad. My brain's RAM is getting worse by the day....

Originally posted by: brg5658

Originally posted by: SYRACUSIAN
PS: Building a date set of identical designs, reveal your collecting past as a Litesider, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'm more of a type set guy, trying to avoid building sets of the same design...

Possibly, but I don't actively collect any other coin (US or non-US) by series except this one. I've always leaned toward type collecting or thematic collecting. Collecting multiple examples of the same coin with only different dates has never appealed much to me -- it always felt like "plugging holes" and was quite boring. I decided to do this set because I knew I could find most dates with unique toning / looks, and because I share a birthday with their designer (June 11, Louis Oscar Roty).

Now THAT was some interesting insight and an excellent reason to collect them by date.

I apologize for jumping to my previous conclusions.

lordmarcovan · October 23, 2015 3:32PM

Originally posted by: davidrj

One of my favorite designs too, which was reprised for the cupronickel francs 1959-2001, but what were they thinking of when they did this on the Euro series?

Wow. That's like comparing a Roman coin of the First Century AD against one from the Fifth Century.

Or comparing a Roman coin minted in Rome itself with a "barbarous radiate".

In isolation, the Euro coin design isn't so objectionable, but it certainly does look cartoonish against the classic Sower design, doesn't it.

theboz11 · October 29, 2015 7:15PM

coinlieutenant · October 30, 2015 6:07AM

My those are lovely! Well done! One of my favorite designs on coins and another example of how European coins mimicked, or vice versa, American designs.

coinlieutenant · October 30, 2015 6:07AM

My those are lovely! Well done! One of my favorite designs on coins and another example of how European coins mimicked, or vice versa, American designs.

Greig · October 30, 2015 1:17PM

I am the very fortunate person to whom Dmitri sold his three 1898 Sower coins, for which I am extremely grateful. They are not as rare as some of the dates/denominations in these three series, but they are (as his photos show) simply gorgeous. I don't know if I will try to collect the other coins in these series, but I can certainly understand why people would want to!

Dmitri, I regret our not getting together last year and hope we'll have the chance sometime in the future. Thanks for selling me the set!!

brg5658 · March 14, 2016 1:09PM

Just a bit of an update, here are three more dates I have acquired within the last couple months with the look I like.

Zohar · March 14, 2016 1:41PM

Yep!

marcmoish · March 18, 2016 3:11AM

boy we share such similair taste in looks

I love the 1917 obviously but all 3 are super period!

Bob13 · November 22, 2017 10:45PM

I like this thread, and the Roty design. Any updates on the set?

Here is one of my favorites:

And a baby Roty:

topstuf · November 23, 2017 7:30AM

Thanks for this thread.
I got so many of these through the shop that I considered them "common" but you've changed that by simply posting pix of how neat they really are.
Good job!

Roty's Sower - 1 Franc Series

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