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FUN Newp: pretty 1866 quarter
rhedden
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This PR65/CAC Seated quarter was a Newp at FUN in the auction. The reserve was 10% over price guide, so nobody bid. I retrieved it from post-auction buys a few seconds later via Heritage Live after saying, "wait a minute..." It replaces a PR62 CAM that I will ultimately sell to some other collector who needs the date. 1866-P is an "impossible" key date in the business strikes, with BU examples being available only once in a blue moon, and with most examples being flatly struck on the reverse. The 1866 proofs do bring a premium over later dates because anyone who collects Seated quarters by date generally has to make a decision between a proof or a lower grade business strike that probably costs just as much. If anyone here has a great business strike example of this date, please add it to this post. In the mean time, please enjoy the pretty colors on this proof example.
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- Jim
I've never found the MS 1866 quarters to be extremely hard to find. And since nearly all of them come poorly struck it makes it even harder to want to buy one. The last one I had was a MS62/63 coin entombed in an old ANACS AU55 holder. Apparently, ANACS was fooled by the strike. When I sent it in to NGC for a cross or higher it came back body bagged AT....the joke was on me! I ended up flipping the coin to Jim Halperin for MS money. He liked the coin despite its weak strike and AT-ness. The VF-XF 1866's are a different story....very hard to find. And with the strike issue they probably appear a grade lower than they really are. The terrible strike on these pretty much precludes most everyone being fooled into buying a proof as a business strike. I've been tempted a few times in buying some gorgeous 1866 MS65/66 business strikes, but could never get past the weak strikes....usually flat in the centers on both sides of the coin. I've heard rumors of sharply struck business strikes but have never personally seen one to verify it.
I don't know if I've ever seen a finer example!!!!
All stars are full on the obverse as well as feathers on the eagle.
That is just SWEET
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Check out the May 91 Superior auction catalog, if you have one. I'm pretty sure there was a colorful, fully struck gem in there. And I'm 100% sure that the coin exists, whether it was in that sale or not. (Previous appearance was in a Christies NYC auction a few years earlier, where it was accompanied by a matching half and dollar.)
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
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<< <i>This PR65/CAC Seated quarter was a Newp at FUN in the auction. The reserve was 10% over price guide, so nobody bid. I retrieved it from post-auction buys a few seconds later via Heritage Live after saying, "wait a minute..." It replaces a PR62 CAM that I will ultimately sell to some other collector who needs the date. 1866-P is an "impossible" key date in the business strikes, with BU examples being available only once in a blue moon, and with most examples being flatly struck on the reverse. The 1866 proofs do bring a premium over later dates because anyone who collects Seated quarters by date generally has to make a decision between a proof or a lower grade business strike that probably costs just as much. If anyone here has a great business strike example of this date, please add it to this post. In the mean time, please enjoy the pretty colors on this proof example.
Very nice - good play on waiting.
<< <i> I've been tempted a few times in buying some gorgeous 1866 MS65/66 business strikes, but could never get past the weak strikes....usually flat in the centers on both sides of the coin. I've heard rumors of sharply struck business strikes but have never personally seen one to verify it.
Check out the May 91 Superior auction catalog, if you have one. I'm pretty sure there was a colorful, fully struck gem in there. And I'm 100% sure that the coin exists, whether it was in that sale or not. (Previous appearance was in a Christies NYC auction a few years earlier, where it was accompanied by a matching half and dollar.) >>
I also heard of "the one" from that era. Never examined it closely. I can only say if there's one, why aren't their others? It's not like collectors of that era (1863-1867) didn't put away an inordinate amount of choice and gem Philly MS silver half dime, dimes, and quarters due the very low mintages. Also, why nothing inbetween. Nearly every 1866 unc you see is very weakly struck in the centers. And I say "nearly" because you never see them all and you can't ever so "never." It's sort of like running into a fully struck 1842-0 sd quarter...only worse. The bottom line is that seated quarter collectors aren't as juiced as the guys with the 20th century registry sets where "FULL something" on the label often nets you a double or triple. I doubt there's anyone building a choice/gem unc seated quarter set in full drapery/full feathers/full claws/full stars. A difficult task indeed considering several dates in the series still don't exist in technical mint state 61 or better condition.
<< <i>Concerning the aforementioned fully struck, Gem 1866 business strike that appeared in a 1991 catalogue, I have to wonder if it isn't the same as an NGC MS66 1866 that I found in the Heritage archives this morning. There is indeed a fully struck example in existence- have a look. Sad thing is, it's dipped blast white. >>
This would be the Joe Thomas coin from early 2009
Appears to have been purchased in 2006 from an earlier Heritage sale. Being dipped appears to be one of its lesser problems. Of all the couple dozen MS64-66 coins listed no others were sharply struck in the centers. In checking back through my LSCC collective volumes 1-4 I can't find anything on differentiating an 1866 business strike vs. a proof via die diagnostics. Other than the flat centers, and the right half of the stars being flat, I don't see a way to tell them apart using photos. Obviously an edge inspection would be helpful. They both appear to have the same positioning of the date digits. A number of proof seated quarters and halves come with flat stars. So using that as a "diagnostic" is far from fool proof.
This one has somewhat weak centers, but strongish right hand side stars and arrow heads.
Also has a fairly wide and square rim with >50% of it wired. The denticles are also quite sharp and squared up.
100% Positive BST transactions
The coin Andy mentions is very fully struck, colorful, and once in a PC MS67 holder. I've only seen a pic. The coin fell out of the pop reports years ago and I was told indirectly it did not end up a proof. Who knows? I've heard of one other gem+ coin. Neither of those two coins are the ones mentioned/posted so far. Or mine
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<< <i>wow! Nice coin!! >>
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
I don't know about the pop reports, but the coin is an unquestionable business strike.
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Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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<< <i>Starting to sweat a bit. Didn't get the package from Heritage yet. Watch my quarter show up on ebay tomorrow...
Great example, don't worry, it'll come eventually...
I have to see if I can find the Superior '91 catalog. Never saw a fully struck '66 business strike, or even a fairly well struck example with full center definition. However, if Andy says it exists as a fully struck up MS example, that's good enuf for me.