A Pound of Ptolemies

TIF2 · January 18, 2015 5:36AM

Well... almost a pound. I'm 40 grams short. Guess I'll have to buy another coin

. It's a great series to collect and there are hundreds more I could justify adding to the set. I don't even have all the denominations yet, much less all rulers and major types.

Eight of these came from one fantastic lot (Stack's Bowers, 8/20/13). That lot also included three Alexandrian tetradrachms (which I love to collect) and a very worn COL NEM. I bid on the lot primarily for the massive Ptolemy II, advertised as 47mm but I measure 48. Stop rolling your eyes... in the "mine is bigger" world of monster bronzes this is a point of pride

. Another huge plus for that lot was provenance. They were collected by Professor James R. Eaton (1834-1897) and stayed in his family until I bought them. I guess Professor Eaton wasn't sure of some attributions either as none came in handy envelopes with full attribution. In his defense, Svoronos wasn't yet written when Eaton was alive.

I've photographed and rephotographed these coins and still am not satisfied. I also never attributed most of the Stack's coins until today. Rather, I tried and failed to attributed them. A few still have question marks. My pages and pages of notes are scattered about as I write. Literature is conflicting and/or I'm confused. I've used PtolemyBronze, their attribution software, and the online-viewable text and plate of Svoronos, etc but it's a challenge. After uploading this post I'll work on it a bit more.

I have an even dozen Ptolemy bronzes, although I thought I had one more medium-sized Ptolemy. Maybe it's misfiled.

The accumulation began out of a fascination with Zeus Ammon. More were purchased as gifts... gifts which once again have not been given and which probably won't be given. I want to keep them now!

Please pile on your Ptolemy bronzes to this already piled-on post. Ptolemy party!

(Relative sizes preserved in this composite)

Top left to bottom, then bottom right to top:

1. Ptolemy II, 48 mm, 91.8 gm. Sv446
2. Ptolemy IV, 42 mm, 67.9 gm. Sv992
3. Ptolemy IV?, 40 mm, 64.8 gm. Sv1125 or 1126?
4. Ptolemy III, 38 mm, 44.0 gm. Sv974
5. Ptolemy IV, 36 mm, 41.9 gm. Sv1148?
6. Ptolemy II, 32 mm, 22.5 gm. Sv760
7. Ptolemy VI-VIII? V-VI?, 30 mm, 25.4 gm. Sv1383? 1424a or b?
8. Ptolemy VI-VIII?, 29 mm, 24.3 gm. Sv1383? 1424b?
9. Ptolemy II, 22 mm, 8.75 gm. Sv483
10. Ptolemy IX, X, XI, or XII?, 20 mm, 9.2 gm. Sv1698? (what is that thing or things in the left field reverse? Might it be a cornucopia? I can't find a match)
11. Ptolemy VIII?, 20 mm, 6.8 gm. Double eagles, no monogram between legs. I cannot determine the left field figure. It somewhat looks like a silphium plant which would make this Ptolemy VIII struck in Kyrene, Sv1158.
12. Ptolemy VII?, 20 mm, 6.6 gm. Same dilemma as coin #11.

If anyone reading this is fluent with Ptolemy bronze attributions please chime in and correct me or set me on the right path. If you need a larger picture of one of the coins in question just let me know and I will post the individual image.

NiceCurrency · January 18, 2015 5:51AM

those are all quite respectable examples too

I wish the Ptolemies wouldn't have been so busy marrying their sisters that they could have made their coins more distinguishable between rulers

here's mine: (sellers images and description)

A large 36 mm brass coin of Ptolemy IV Philopater (221-205 BC). Soon after the death of his father, Ptolemy III, in 222, Ptolemy IV had his mother, Berenice II, murdered to free himself from any regency arrangements. His reign marked the start of the decline of the Ptolemaic Kingdom: While invasions and rebellions rocked his domains, he devoted himself to hedonism and left the governing of Egypt to court favorites. He actually lost control of Upper Egypt to a renegade dynasty of native Pharaohs. Ptolemy IV is also noted for building the Tessarakonteres war galley, which at 425 feet was the largest ship ever built in the ancient world. The front of the coin shows the head of the horned Graeco-Egyptian god Zeus-Ammon. The back shows an eagle standing on a thunderbolt, with a Greek letter lambda between its legs, indicating year 11 of Ptolemy IV's rule, or 211 BC. Around the edge is a Greek inscription that reads "King Ptolemy". The coin is in nice shape -- the front is good, but the back is sharp, detailed, and deeply-struck. The Minted in Alexandria, Egypt, 211 BC. Reference: Svoronos 1167

JCMhouston · January 18, 2015 9:09AM

Very cool.

Icollecteverything · January 18, 2015 9:20AM

Here's my one and only. Photo needs more contrast or something.

NiceCurrency · January 18, 2015 9:25AM

oh my, that one looks like a hockey puck, size and weight?

Icollecteverything · January 18, 2015 11:50PM

<< <i>oh my, that one looks like a hockey puck, size and weight? >>

Mine? I don't have a weight but it is about silver dollar diameter but thicker.

determined · January 19, 2015 1:15AM

Very nice TIF. I have never seen anyone post all the different denominations and sizes with the relative sizes intact before.
I would like to see this picture in a little larger size so that the details are more easily seen. Maybe post a larger size on your site?

And BTW I really like your site. A great variety of coins. And you post more info about the coins than just the seller's or auction description. And the drop down menus make it very easy to navigate through.

TIF2 · January 20, 2015 7:32PM

Nice examples, everyone!

@determined-- thanks for that suggestion and the website kudo. I will add a composite shot to the site, perhaps an enlargeable composite on each coin's page or maybe as a separate entry under stories... when I get around to writing the story

Zohar · January 21, 2015 12:55AM

Very nice collage. I would like to own one of these at some point.

nicholasz219 · January 21, 2015 9:31PM

Tif2, I am following your thread here because I recently bought a few Ptolemies myself. I know literally nothing about them but I think they are cool and this thread is infinitely expanding my knowledge base of these coins.

Zohar, please leave Ptolemy alone. He's copper, you don't like him, they are too big for your holders and have you bought an aureus or solidus yet? You should work on those things. (and leave the copper coins to me.)

nicholasz219 · January 21, 2015 9:36PM

These were some impulse buys but I am still really enamored of the eagle design and Zeus-Ammon myself. See you later, unspent dollars!

TIF2 · January 21, 2015 9:45PM

Nice ones, Nicholasz!

I just started reading a very interesting book which relates to these coins plus a bunch of other types I collect. "The Rise and Fall of Alexandria: Birthplace of the Modern World" by Justin Pollard and Howard Reid.

So far it is fantastic! Very well written, engaging, and with handy references at the back (map, chronology, appendix, bibliography, and index). This is really going to fuel my drive for more Alexandrian coins.

I never was interested in history prior to collecting ancient coins. Although many folks say "buy the book before the coin", in my case it has been better to buy these books after amassing a good number of coins. Now when I read such books the names and basics are already familiar, greatly improving the flow and enjoyment.

nicholasz219 · January 21, 2015 10:27PM

I just added that to my Amazon list. I was just reading a Outline of Greek Coins by Klawans and was able to pick up some limited information as well. More reading on the Internet later.

SmEagle1795 · January 22, 2015 8:04AM

Fantastic group!! If you acquire enough of these, you could justify them as a core component in your workout regimen!

A Pound of Ptolemies

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