You Heard It Here First Folks (silver Kennedy Set coins related)

wondercoin · November 11, 2014 9:39AM

The "S" mint "business strike" enhanced coin from the set can come Prooflike just like a $20 2009 Ultra High Relief coin does at times.

Good chance this becomes the most valuable coin in the set with nice PL surfaces in "70" grade. PCGS will begin to recognize this special coin with PL surfaces which should likely include a separate coin number for the coin moving forward.

Stay tuned!

Wondercoin

BaronVonBaugh · November 11, 2014 10:03AM

19Lyds · November 11, 2014 10:11AM

I'd be surprised if any didn't qualify for PL given the three that I received and the designation just seems a little redundant since the profile intentionally has a faux cameo appearance.

ChiSao · November 11, 2014 10:21AM

tuned in....

Type2 · November 11, 2014 10:30AM

So did you get one or two?

Casman · November 11, 2014 10:39AM

<< I'd be surprised if any didn't qualify for PL given the three that I received and the designation just seems a little redundant since the profile intentionally has a faux cameo appearance. >>

profile shouldnt have anything to do with the fields which is the focus for the designation right?

wondercoin · November 11, 2014 10:43AM

Type 2. I did not get any coin back with a PL designation yet nor have I heard that any coin I submitted to date will be awarded that designation to this point. But, obviously, I hope that changes real soon with future submissions I get back!!

Wondercoin

Casman · November 11, 2014 10:46AM

Good luck Mitch...Have you noticed any that stood out as possible candidates?

illini420 · November 11, 2014 10:46AM

<< Type 2. I did not get any coin back with a PL designation yet nor have I heard that any coin I submitted to date will be awarded that designation to this point. But, obviously, I hope that changes real soon with future submissions I get back!!

Wondercoin >>

Is that because your coins didn't deserve the PL designation, or that they just decided to start doing PL designations??

Unfortunate when things like this are decided after folks have already paid for grading, like the many UHR coins that were graded before PL designations started to be used.

Casman · November 11, 2014 10:49AM

And dont forget the late to the playground PL for the 5 oz ATBS...

wondercoin · November 11, 2014 10:53AM

illini - First, a "thank you for the information" is always better than a confrontational approach. Hopefully, my heads up here can save fellow board members a bit of a hassle down the road.

Wondercoin

Edited to add ... when did NGC start recognizing the "PL" - from day 1???

wondercoin · November 11, 2014 10:56AM

Casman. My review of all of the "S' mint does show a "night and day" difference between the most potential "PL" and the least potential "PL". Of course, I have no idea where PCGS will draw the line for the designation, but, I would guess at least 10%-15% of the fresh coins might have a shot at an MS70PL. Pure guess at this point.

Wondercoin

Akbeez · November 11, 2014 1:11PM

THANKS for the head's up Mitch -- your insights are always appreciated!

Ethan · November 11, 2014 1:12PM

Neat of it comes to be true, what about the lines?

bigjpst · November 11, 2014 1:58PM

Thanks for the insight. I just went and looked at my two sets and one of the S mint coins has a seriously PL obverse, and the other is not even close. I guess I may have to pry them out and check the reverse.

wondercoin · November 11, 2014 3:13PM

My pleasure guys.

Congrats bigjpst!

Wondercoin

HATTRICK · November 11, 2014 11:00PM

Using the mints poor quality control and variations in coins produced as an excuse for a rare or different variation grade is

just another BS excuse to try and gouge the collecting public for more $$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Maby we need a sniffer to detect the "trickle down effect from the TPG's and other greedy dealers."

wondercoin · November 12, 2014 12:55AM

"Using the mints poor quality control and variations in coins produced as an excuse for a rare or different variation grade is..."

Hattrick. Isn't that what differentiates grades 68, 69, 70 on most every modern coin submitted to the grading services by collectors and dealers alike? Ditto for classic coins.

Wondercoin.

53BKid · November 12, 2014 12:55AM

Thanks for the heads up, Mitch.

This coin is beautiful in my opinion - lines, no lines, PL or otherwise.

Giving four of my five sets as gifts.

keets · November 12, 2014 1:47AM

Using the mints poor quality control and variations in coins produced as an excuse for a rare or different variation grade is
just another BS excuse to try and gouge the collecting public for more $$$$$$$$$$$$$.

if this is a serious post then you don't have a clue and might want to change hobbies.

pf70collector · November 12, 2014 2:11AM

My S in my raw set has prooflike surfaces (brushed lines on Kennedy) but I thought this is what they are supposed to look like. I hope others will post the difference. I would like to see the difference between the regular and PL. I personally don't care (really don't collect anything in the Kennedy series) and would not pay a premium for a PL. Would be ironic if the only way to get the PL is with the brush lines on the Kennedy. Maybe the brushed lines have something to do with the fresh dies.

keets · November 12, 2014 3:34AM

I would like to see the difference between the regular and PL

I have only seen 13-15 Sets. the portrait on all of them is frosted heavy enough to warrant a DCAM designation if the coin was a Proof. the fields differ on the coins and vary between what you might see on a 1998 Matte Proof and a nicely mirrored 1965 SMS Half-Dollar. the best Set has really nice mirrors but a small die scratch in the field parallel with JFK's nose. the next best Set is slightly less reflective but immaculate.

I would expect it to be a no-doubt PL, perhaps a DPL depending on how they are graded.

HATTRICK · November 12, 2014 5:37AM

In my opinion I see no problem with grading as to actual condition of the coin, wear, quality of strike ect., however the modern coins that are graded 69's & 70's

are not evenly graded on a cosistent basis and too many that do not deserve to be 70's are dumped on the collecting pubic. I believe proof like, non prooflike ect is

not really reflective of the quality of the coin to me. I want it to be perfect for a 70. There is too much streatching of the grades to generate more dollars. Great for flippers

and dealers trying to find an excuse to make an extra buck, but means nothing to me or my tastes. Just my opinion and obviusoly many think otherwise as there is much

money to be made by streatching the perception of reality.

keets · November 12, 2014 6:05AM

I believe proof like, non prooflike ect is not really reflective of the quality of the coin to me.

the dies are prepared and as coins are struck the finish/detail begins to erode. this is as true today as it was during the 19th Century. it is not only apparent regarding the Prooflike quality of a coin but also in the crispness of the detail, hence we have EDS/MDS/LDS to help understand what has taken place to the die(s) during the coining process.

bigole · November 12, 2014 6:54AM

[URL=http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/rallison7/media/photo66_zpsd59fdfbc.jpg.html]

[/URL]

This is how mine came. Is this what Mitch is talking about?
I thought I had two Proofs initially. I only bought the one set so I don't have any other S coins to compare to. (Sorry, just looked at this and I should have brushed off the lint on the capsules- the coins came out fine).

wondercoin · November 12, 2014 9:23AM

Bigole ... Now we're talking!

Wondercoin

jessewvu · November 12, 2014 9:38AM

I can kinda see it on some of the coins I have. However, when you move the coin around, the prooflike qualities breakdown fast... With that said, I think some folks will be upset when their "prooflike" coin does not get the designation. PL has to be PL at all angles.

Datentype · November 12, 2014 9:50AM

When I saw mine I was thinking the same thing. Coolest coin in the set but still no big deal. Just a sales angle expansion

wondercoin · November 12, 2014 9:53AM

And, an extra $25/coin for the designation ($10/coin for the 69 grade).

Wondercoin

Datentype · November 12, 2014 9:56AM

Ethan · November 12, 2014 10:15AM

I really wish we could get an good idea of the spread of these particular coins....I mean that picture above looks like a proof, mine are DCAM I would think but 4 of the 5 have the lines.

GRANDAM · November 12, 2014 10:34AM

<< And, an extra $25/coin for the designation ($10/coin for the 69 grade).

Wondercoin >>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So when you submit these it is $25/$10 to request the PL designation + the grading fee + the label fee? Is this correct?

If it doesn't grade PL are you still charged the $25?

GrandAm

bsshog40 · November 12, 2014 10:39AM

I tried taking a quick pic also. There is some nice PL surface to these.

Walker21 · November 12, 2014 11:51AM

I bought two sets and both S-mint ones look like DCAM. I also thought that how it suppose to be.

Kudbegud · November 12, 2014 12:04PM

<< 

<< And, an extra $25/coin for the designation ($10/coin for the 69 grade).

Wondercoin >>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So when you submit these it is $25/$10 to request the PL designation + the grading fee + the label fee? Is this correct?

If it doesn't grade PL are you still charged the $25?

GrandAm

>>

I just looked to confirm fees
$16 for Modern (1965 to Date)
$18 for First Strike
or the fee for a special Kennedy label.

I don't see any fee for PL HERE
You get it or you don't. Just like DCAM or MS/PF 70 you can get a DMPL. I've gotten a couple and wasn't charged anything extra. I could be wrong, have been before. If I am, point me to the page where it is explained.

The only mention I could find was this involving the 2009 UHR and 2010 5oz ATB

"Effective immediately, PCGS will recognize Prooflike (PL) designations for 2009 Ultra High Relief (UHR) $20 gold coins. Also effective immediately, PCGS will recognize Prooflike (PL) and Deep Mirror Prooflike (DMPL) designations for 2010 5-oz. America the Beautiful coins. Many of these business strike coins were minted from highly polished dies and warrant special recognition. All submissions automatically qualify for these new designations without any additional fees."

wondercoin · November 12, 2014 2:21PM

Perhaps someone can call PCGS tomorrow and confirm whether or not there will be added fees and how the PLs should be requested (if they need to be at all).

Wondercoin

CCC2010 · November 12, 2014 9:01PM

Yes please if anyone can officially confirm this with our host?

Steve27 · November 12, 2014 10:17PM

Mine is nicer than the proof:

wondercoin · November 13, 2014 12:29AM

I confirmed that the $10 or $25 extra charges for the PL designation are correct but only for bulk coins. Regular PCGS submissions should not see those extra charges.

Wondercoin

Datentype · November 13, 2014 1:38AM

The latest pricing trend for PCGS and NGC tends to be toward "profit sharing" on anything you have that is good for all services.

HalfStrike · November 13, 2014 4:45AM

No doubt this coin will become the most valuable in PL 70.

bsshog40 · November 13, 2014 5:24AM

I think that NGC is only designating these as SP (specimen).

19Lyds · November 13, 2014 5:51AM

<< I can kinda see it on some of the coins I have. However, when you move the coin around, the prooflike qualities breakdown fast... With that said, I think some folks will be upset when their "prooflike" coin does not get the designation. PL has to be PL at all angles. >>

19Lyds · November 13, 2014 5:53AM

<< And, an extra $25/coin for the designation ($10/coin for the 69 grade).

Wondercoin >>

So..................if you pay them then you'll get the designation?

I can live without it.

Will CAM and DCAM be an additional charge in the future?

19Lyds · November 13, 2014 5:56AM

<< 

<< 

<< And, an extra $25/coin for the designation ($10/coin for the 69 grade).

Wondercoin >>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So when you submit these it is $25/$10 to request the PL designation + the grading fee + the label fee? Is this correct?

If it doesn't grade PL are you still charged the $25?

GrandAm

>>

I just looked to confirm fees
$16 for Modern (1965 to Date)
$18 for First Strike
or the fee for a special Kennedy label.

I don't see any fee for PL HERE
You get it or you don't. Just like DCAM or MS/PF 70 you can get a DMPL. I've gotten a couple and wasn't charged anything extra. I could be wrong, have been before. If I am, point me to the page where it is explained.

The only mention I could find was this involving the 2009 UHR and 2010 5oz ATB

"Effective immediately, PCGS will recognize Prooflike (PL) designations for 2009 Ultra High Relief (UHR) $20 gold coins. Also effective immediately, PCGS will recognize Prooflike (PL) and Deep Mirror Prooflike (DMPL) designations for 2010 5-oz. America the Beautiful coins. Many of these business strike coins were minted from highly polished dies and warrant special recognition. All submissions automatically qualify for these new designations without any additional fees." >>

Thank You for clearing this up. I assumed that Wondercoin knew what he was talking about. My bad.

wondercoin · November 13, 2014 6:05AM

I did know what I was talking about. Those charges are for bulk coins. When a coin grades 69PL FS in bulk, the submittor will pay about $25, including the extra $10 for the PL. Regular submittors will pay at least $34 outside bulk for the same coin, so does one get the PL "for free"? Of course they do.... Sort of. Wondercoin

oreville · November 13, 2014 2:28PM

Informative thread!!

19Lyds · November 13, 2014 4:56PM

<< I did know what I was talking about. Those charges are for bulk coins. When a coin grades 69PL FS in bulk, the submittor will pay about $25, including the extra $10 for the PL. Regular submittors will pay at least $34 outside bulk for the same coin, so does one get the PL "for free"? Of course they do.... Sort of. Wondercoin >>

Ahhh.

I doubt that I and any other "collectors" will be submitting 25 sets.

HATTRICK · November 13, 2014 10:35PM

When a market becomes profitable more sellers come into it. When a market becomes more profitable the

sellers begin to squabble for another piece of the profit. As the sellers squabble more & more the buyers

begin to abandon the market. The writing is on the wall.

" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over."

bsshog40 · November 13, 2014 10:59PM

Have ya'll looked at these PL coins closely. I looked at mine with a 7x loupe and they look like they've been cleaned. Die polish lines galore. It's wierd to think that they had to polish the dies on these so fast. Some of these enhanced uncirculateds are not looking prooflike. Had to have been minted before the polished dies. If I had bought this coin raw on ebay, I would have been thinking it was cleaned.

agentjim007 · November 14, 2014 2:17AM

Just got a NGC69 Enhanced purchased off ebay for $36 NO lines. Better than 70 with lines IMO.

You Heard It Here First Folks (silver Kennedy Set coins related)

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