They can grade it, but you set the price

TahoeDale · September 12, 2014 11:08AM

We will forever and a day discuss and tear apart the grades of coins, and be correct every time-there will be a difference in the grade of the same coin,
and on many occasions the grade will differ among the same grader-be it an expert or a novice collector.

But the price that will be paid(or recognized by the market) should depend heavily on the quality of the coin within or outside of the "grade".

I own 2 1830 small O variety CBH's. Assume there is no rarity difference and they are the same.

In August 2001, I paid 2800 for the 1st one, graded MS 64, NGC. It is now PC 65. Market pricing about 11,000.

In January, 2013, I paid $5000 for the 2nd one, graded AU 58, PCGS, rattler holder. Market pricing-about $900.
How did it come to pass that an AU 58 of the same date and rarity cost more today than a MS 64/65 from 12 years earlier??

I know of a very expert collector(ex dealer) who paid over 14,000 for an AU 58 Barber half, that would bring only 9000 as a 65 and maybe 14000
as a 66. I will not name him, but all on this board would recognize him.

Conclusion- the grade is technical, and may vary by 1 to 5 pts among experts. AU 55 to MS 63, probably only 2 pts if in the gem area.
But the price? A lot more variance than the difference in grade.

Nap · September 12, 2014 12:02PM

Not quite fair to compare 2001 to today. Many (though not all) series have seen heavy price increases since then. But this is elementary and certainly not what you are asking.

Are there AU58 coins that are worth more than MS64? Probably. Modern market is focused on a certain trendy "eye appeal," that's what brings the big bucks now.

Technical grade is almost the least important parameter these days, after "eye appeal" and "originality" (whatever those abstract terms mean), and 4th party stickering

lkeigwin · September 12, 2014 12:05PM

I agree with the notion. I've paid many times price guide for truly nice pieces and have never regretted it.

But mostly I'd like to see the 1830 AU58 CBH you bought for $5,000. I assume the price paid was driven by emotion and not the expectation that it would appreciate 4x in 13 years as your Aug 2001 purchase did.
Lance.

MrEureka · September 12, 2014 12:07PM

I own 2 1830 small O variety CBH's. Assume there is no rarity difference and they are the same.

In August 2001, I paid 2800 for the 1st one, graded MS 64, NGC. It is now PC 65. Market pricing about 11,000.

In January, 2013, I paid $5000 for the 2nd one, graded AU 58, PCGS, rattler holder. Market pricing-about $900.
How did it come to pass that an AU 58 of the same date and rarity cost more today than a MS 64/65 from 12 years earlier??

If you were a baseball player, I'd say that batting 500 is pretty good.

DeliaBug · September 13, 2014 3:08AM

Perhaps the PCGS Everyman set registries, where AU58 (or AU58+) is the MS70, have something to do with it.

mozin · September 13, 2014 7:39AM

I've seen many NGC 64 Bust Half Dollars that I would not want to own. There are many PCGS 58 CBHs that would be more to my liking. My problem is coming up with the big dollars some super looking 58s are commanding these days.

What must puzzle readers that know TahoeDale in the Registry, is what in the world Dale is doing by buying anything in AU grade CBH.

Dale's Registry Bust Half Dollars

TwoSides2aCoin · September 13, 2014 10:12AM

I heard they can grade it, but if someone is not complaining , it's not priced high enough.

SAM5969 · September 13, 2014 11:43AM

What wasn't mentioned was the $14000 Barber Half in AU58 was a pop 1 coin at the time of that sale .. That same coin is now pop 3 IIRC .. Height of EM registry mania - There were a few very heavy players doing the EM Barbers then .. I understand the point about the quality of the coin but that was secondary to it being pop 1 .. that same date/MM sold after for fractions of $14k and the qualities were commensurate

I made recently made the 3rd 1896-O Half graded AU58 by PCGS .. Realized $11k .. it was absolutely a plastic purchase .. the same coin lingered at $2500 in an NGC55 holder until I bought it, cracked it and submitted it ..... It is all about the plastic .... Sometimes

TahoeDale · September 15, 2014 1:15AM

Sam,

Agreed that the 97-S Barber half in 58 was not just about quality. But the rarity of the grade at the time overcame any limit on pricing.
BTW, are there any images of the additional 58's that were made and sold for substantially less?

Last year, an 1807 lg stars CBH in PC 58 sold for more than the last 63. It was fab, and looked nicer than the lower MS coin. This is going to happen many times over.
An 1815 CBH sold 2 years ago( again PC 58) for more than 63 money. A beaut of a 58.

Mozin- I have several AU coins in my CBH and early half sets. Love them

lkeigwin · September 15, 2014 1:56AM

<< <i>An 1815 CBH sold 2 years ago( again PC 58) for more than 63 money. A beaut of a 58. >>

I think it was this one. Exceptional. Roger Solomon's AU58 (below it) also went for very big money (~$25k).
Lance.

Walkerguy21D · September 15, 2014 2:36AM

Very impressive 1815 halves......but I want to add, that this doesn't just work for spectactular coins like those mentioned or posted.
I paid >2X Greysheet Bid for an 1823 N-2 large cent in a PCGS 'Fine Details - Cleaned' holder. It was close to VF detail
and had exceptional surfaces and planchet color for this date and variety.....it was perhaps lightly brushed many years ago.

BryceM · September 15, 2014 2:57AM

I've followed this thread for a while. There's some interesting points made by the OP, who I was able to meet in person at the ANA.

The case of AU58s is a special one though. It's a weakness of the modernized Sheldon scale to assume that higher numbers always = higher quality. For many series, the realm of MS60-MS62 is populated by ugly, horrible coins that I typically avoid. (Excluding early type and certain gold series). At the same time, I also think it's a mistake to assume that high prices for coins at the AU58 grade are always due to people playing the everyman registry game. Some of them are perfectly nice on their own merits.

Certain AU58s are among the most beautiful (and desirable) coins in numismatics. The coins that Lance posted are prefect examples. We might call them gem AU, AU65, or whatever you'd like. In a way, it's silly for us to ascribe so much importance to the circulated/uncirculated distinction. When it comes to value, strike and even luster are seen as far less important, even to the point that a coin with poor details is sometimes lauded above other extant pieces. QDB mentions similar thinking in many of his books. In any case wear exists along a continuum. A great many coins in MS holders today show definite signs of wear. "Important" or valuable coins are often given a pass with people mumbling something about cabinet friction blah, blah, blah ...... under their breath. Even some MS66 Peace dollars (my series) show evidence of surface texture loss on the high points that can't be entirely explained by bagmarks. If the coin is otherwise "all there" it's sometimes overlooked......

Finally, certain AU58s are absolutely fantastic buys at a fraction of the MS price for a similar look. I paid $1,800 for this coin. Price guide is $5,200 in MS63, $7,200 in MS64, and $13,500 in MS65. As a type piece, I can't imagine doing better:

amwldcoin · September 15, 2014 5:57AM

<< <i>Sam,

Agreed that the 97-S Barber half in 58 was not just about quality. But the rarity of the grade at the time overcame any limit on pricing.
BTW, are there any images of the additional 58's that were made and sold for substantially less? >>

I purchased the last 97-S that graded 58! There are pictures of it buried in the Barber Megathread Part 2. I maybe be biased but I believe it is the nicest of the 3! At the time I could have purchased an MS-65 direct from Heritage for substantially less money....but it was butt ugly!

This supports BryceM's statement above. I truly believe I saved this coin from being cracked out!

They can grade it, but you set the price

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