The Ethics and Protocol of an Ebay rip.

MGLICKER · May 19, 2014 1:40AM

Many were bashed on the Silvertowne thread for simply having the gall to hit the buy it now on underpriced silver eagles.

They should have KNOWN that it was an obvious pricing error, and even the sniff of wanting to buy a few at the low price put them on par with Capone and Dillinger.

I disagree and for the record graciously acknowledged the canceled transaction and left positive feedback.

So lets move forward. Question for the do gooders, when is an underpriced buy it now on Ebay acceptable?

Would an 1885-CC Morgan in MS65 with an established market price of say $1200 be an unfair purchase at $800, or $600?

If offered at $600 would one be wrong to make the purchase or should he instead inform the seller that his gray sheet needs to be updated?

What if the seller mentions the pricing error but is willing to ship the coin anyway? Is it unethical to allow him to do so?

If the $600 and /or $800 prices are too low, is $1000 ok. Just how much under market value can we go as buyers and still hold our heads up high?

lostincoins · May 19, 2014 1:49AM

All coins should be bought at the determined book price per the market and nothing more or less. This will make the market fair, flat and boring but will stop all complaints as to buy sell as they are the same at all times. Lol seems Communism is the proper way and not a free market economy.

MGLICKER · May 19, 2014 1:52AM

<< Lol seems Communism is the proper way and not a free market economy. >>

That was the original intent of the Sheldon scale, to bring a price parity to the market by assigning a numeric grade. The idea was that the 60 coin should be worth double the same piece in 30.

That did not work out so well.

DennisH · May 19, 2014 2:07AM

1885-CCs in MS65 have an established market price of $1200?
Except for coins in GSA holders and DMPLs, $1000 has been happening lately in Heritage auctions.

Banemorth · May 19, 2014 2:13AM

We've all paid our tuition (I know I have.) We've all purchased coins that we shouldn't have. I'm sure many have sold coins for less than they were worth as well. Silvertowne paid theirs and learned to be more careful when listing their auctions (or at least I hope they did.) I didn't have the opportunity to purchase any of their listings but if I did I would have expected them to honor the price had I requested. Using the logic many others are we should be ready to string up Cherry Pickers too for not informing the seller that their items are under-priced. Instead we congratulate them (and rightly so in my opinion) for their good eye and great find.

braddick · May 19, 2014 2:14AM

It's all a game until your money is in the seller's account and the coin is in your hands.

Any step before that takes place is open for modification.
Fair or not- that is the eBay game signed up for upon registration.

MGLICKER · May 19, 2014 2:18AM

<< 1885-CCs in MS65 have an established market price of $1200?
Except for coins in GSA holders and DMPLs, $1000 has been happening lately in Heritage auctions. >>

Last 7 sales on Ebay where price was available. Non GSA and non PL DMPL.

$1125
$963
$1375
$1150
$1250
$1100
$1100.

First two had less than high end eye appeal.
Either way, none sold for $800 or $600.

ebaytrader · May 19, 2014 2:27AM

As long the seller has a complete understanding what they're doing, it's a-okay.

MGLICKER · May 19, 2014 2:32AM

<< We've all paid our tuition (I know I have.) We've all purchased coins that we shouldn't have. I'm sure many have sold coins for less than they were worth as well >>

Very true. In my early days on Ebay I listed a lot of raw Morgans. Quickly got snapped up. Looked at past sales and realized I had them substantially underpriced. My price sheet was off by about 35%.

I shipped them the next morning.

MGLICKER · May 19, 2014 2:33AM

<< As long the seller has a complete understanding what they're doing, it's a-okay. >>

How can one be sure? He may be unaware of the value.

ebaytrader · May 19, 2014 2:36AM

<< 

<< As long the seller has a complete understanding what they're doing, it's a-okay. >>

How can one be sure? He may be unaware of the value. >>

Ask.

telephoto1 · May 19, 2014 2:38AM

The fact that this thread exists tells me that on some level you're unhappy over not getting a slabbed ASE for $5 and legitimately expected SilverTowne to lose thousands of dollars just to accommodate you.

I've honored pricing mistakes on pieces before, but there's a difference between a $20 mistake on the back of a flip and a huge automated bulk listing error that would have amounted to thousands.

And the idea that this has anything to do with the free market economy is laughable.

They made a legitimate mistake and caught it before shipping. End of story. Get over it and move on, people.

Edit for typo. Oh, no- I made a mistake. Does that mean I need to sell someone a Saint for $3?

Type2 · May 19, 2014 2:39AM

This is a gray area i think it's ok but if you are called out on it get reddy to pay or walk away, Nothing is set in stone but tax's and death.

MGLICKER · May 19, 2014 2:43AM

<< The fact that this thread exists tells me that on some level you're unhappy over not getting a slabbed ASE for $5 and legitimately expected SilverTowne to lose thousands of dollars just to accommodate you. >>

Sure Kreskin.....can you tell me who will win the 4th at Aqueduct today.

Sorry but 4 coins worth $30 each for $10 each does not change my life.

Just want to clarify when one is entitled to an Ebay rip. You are the rantmeister on this subject Telephoto1, so please lay out the parameters of what you think is fair play.

For the record, I will hit the buy it now anytime that I find it to be to my advantage. On the other hand I have never ever tried to force a sale when the seller requests a cancellation. Have also never left the seller less than positive feedback in such instances.

Wabbit2313 · May 19, 2014 2:48AM

This is ridiculous to think you have to ask the seller if they know what they are selling. They are the seller and they can/will set their own price.

This differs from someone coming to you asking for advise on what something is worth and you lie to them to buy it for cheap. If you want to do that, open a coin shop!

(Kidding!)

braddick · May 19, 2014 2:50AM

Much of the behavior exhibited toward eBay sellers would not exist at a brick and mortar.
Approach a Dealer as you approach an eBay seller and you're rightly and likely to get a boot up your butt.

AMRC · May 19, 2014 2:53AM

I have been on both sides of this. I once sold, via eBay auction, a one ounce Silver round for $1.49 when Silver was $27. I shipped it no questions asked. I knew what it was, and that is how it turned out. On the other side, I left off the forth digit on a coin once on eBay and it sold in 5 mins. I cancelled that sale when I saw it was an error. I think the real issue here is "errors and omissions." If there was an error in the Ad (like in the Silvertown example) then we should not get upset or feel slighted when they cancel the sale. Otherwise, it is all fair game.

numisma · May 19, 2014 2:55AM

Just posted this in the other Silvertowne thread:

Silvertowne is a great company, and I have known Leon for years. They epitomize Mid-American work ethic and morals.

That being said, it would have been to Silvertowne's benefit to handle this matter differently. They would have earned much goodwill by offering some sort of coupon towards future orders on their website or Ebay, or even split the difference with the buyers.

They should consider the cost of time spent answering angry emails and phone calls, dealing with negatives, etc. It really would not have been much money, and it could have been spun into a positive publicity stunt. Imagine an article in Coin World stating talking about this and showing how Silvertowne made it right.

National chain stores came to this realization years ago. For example, Sam's Club will take returns on anything, including products that were not even sold in their store! That's an extreme example, but they know that it is less expensive to just buy off the occasional nut-job than to argue with them. Other stores actually pay a reward if the consumer finds an error in pricing, since they want to have their inventory accurately priced throughout the store.

FYI: I did NOT bid on the listings as I knew they were erroneous. Also, I have made similar listing errors online so I understand what this is all about.

derryb · May 19, 2014 3:08AM

Underpriced BIN's can also be a warning sign.

19Lyds · May 19, 2014 3:08AM

If the ethics of a coin purchase needs to be explained then perhaps some schooling in common sense is needed?

MGLICKER · May 19, 2014 3:10AM

<< If the ethics of a coin purchase needs to be explained then perhaps some schooling in common sense is needed? >>

ok....go for it.

CuKevin · May 19, 2014 3:20AM

<< 

<< We've all paid our tuition (I know I have.) We've all purchased coins that we shouldn't have. I'm sure many have sold coins for less than they were worth as well >>

Very true. In my early days on Ebay I listed a lot of raw Morgans. Quickly got snapped up. Looked at past sales and realized I had them substantially underpriced. My price sheet was off by about 35%.

I shipped them the next morning. >>

I've done similar before listing items for too little without realizing it and them being snapped up. Sometimes it happens. Long story short, I shipped the coin without question.

In the silvertowne example, I don't think anybody who pressed BIN was wrong in what they did. However, I am also fine with silvertowne realizing this error and asking to cancel the transaction.

ms70 · May 19, 2014 3:38AM

Nobody can really know if it's accidentally or intentionally under priced. The way I see it, on eBay the price is the price, unless it was extremely drastic like a 1792 half disme
for $8. Then I would contact the seller. If there was a mistake on the seller's end I wouldn't get upset about it or be mad at them. I've made mistakes. But I'm absolutely not going
to feel like a jerk for bidding or buying on eBay for what appears to be a fabulous bargain. If the transaction gets completed then I win. If it was a mistake & gets cancelled, then nobody loses.

ms70 · May 19, 2014 3:42AM

I'm reminded of the old story where a husband & wife gets divorced & she wins the Corvette. Just to piss off the husband she sells it for $1.

telephoto1 · May 19, 2014 4:10AM

<< If the ethics of a coin purchase needs to be explained then perhaps some schooling in common sense is needed? >>

Thank you...

MGLICKER · May 19, 2014 4:14AM

<< 

<< If the ethics of a coin purchase needs to be explained then perhaps some schooling in common sense is needed? >>

Thank you... >>

You are expert at avoiding the questions. That is fine.

telephoto1 · May 19, 2014 4:25AM

OK...

The answer is 12.

You're asking a question that very obviously has no cut and dried answer... and there is no magic formula, percentage or number that will supply you with one.
I suspect you already knew that.

MGLICKER · May 19, 2014 4:29AM

<< OK...

The answer is 12.

You're asking a question that very obviously has no cut and dried answer... and there is no magic formula, percentage or number that will supply you with one.
I suspect you already knew that. >>

Let me try this. Seller lists group of MS silver commems at $600 BIN. Resale value is close to $2000. ok or not ok?

You are a quality poster here T1 and frankly the what is right and what is wrong issue when buying on Ebay is something that I frequently question. A few folks have enjoyed $10k hits on the site (not me). I really value yours and other opinions on the subject.

telephoto1 · May 19, 2014 6:17AM

<< 

<< OK...

The answer is 12.

You're asking a question that very obviously has no cut and dried answer... and there is no magic formula, percentage or number that will supply you with one.
I suspect you already knew that. >>

Let me try this. Seller lists group of MS silver commems at $600 BIN. Resale value is close to $2000. ok or not ok?

You are a quality poster here T1 and frankly the what is right and what is wrong issue when buying on Ebay is something that I frequently question. A few folks have enjoyed $10k hits on the site (not me). I really value yours and other opinions on the subject. >>

First off, cherrypicking an obscure variety-something specialized that not everyone knows about- is different than seeing a group of coins with well known and defined wholesale and retail values being offered way too cheaply.
Isolated exceptions aside, Santa Claus doesn't sell scarce coins at less than half price on eBay. Thus in your hypothetical, first off my radar would ping; what's wrong with the coins that they're so cheap? Fakes? Real coins with problems and juiced pics? Stolen?

Also, price isn't my only consideration. For example, if it's something I already have a lot of and can't easily sell, then buying more of them isn't very fiscally responsible imo (and the slow market theory might explain the seller's seemingly too-cheap price).

But let's lay that aside and assume your hypothetical is a KNOWING seller PURPOSELY underpricing the items in an active market (why they would do that, I cannot fathom)... in that case, "OK"
If I have cause to believe it's an unknowing seller (asking a few questions ascertains this rather quickly) or a patently obvious typo as with the Silvertowne issue... not OK.
So for me the answer is both OK and not OK depending on the situation.

Like I said, not cut and dried.

MGLICKER · May 19, 2014 6:23AM

Appreciate your perspective.

mbogoman · May 19, 2014 9:00AM

<< Isolated exceptions aside, Santa Claus doesn't sell scarce coins at less than half price on eBay. Thus in your hypothetical, first off my radar would ping; what's wrong with the coins that they're so cheap? Fakes? Real coins with problems and juiced pics? Stolen? >>

You forgot "hijacked account". BIN prices substantially below market value are often indicators of a hijacked account. I've seen a ton of them...

MGLICKER · May 19, 2014 9:06AM

<< You forgot "hijacked account". BIN prices substantially below market value are often indicators of a hijacked account. I've seen a ton of them... >>

So have I. In the "hypothetical" though, their was no evidence of a hijacked account. The sellers were quite active and sold a number of different items.

The Ethics and Protocol of an Ebay rip.

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