Fake 1889 Carson City Morgan Dollar on Craigs List?

stevepk · April 28, 2014 1:56PM

1889 Carson City Morgan Dollar on Craigs List

Is this 1889 Carson City Morgan Dollar fake? The slab doesn't look quite right and the PCGS cert verification brings up a 1918 quarter. If genuine, this would be a pretty expensive coin. Are people really suckered into fake slabs at this price level? I would image buyers would know their stuff and show extreme caution at this price point.

Real or fake?

hchcoin · April 28, 2014 1:58PM

Don't buy coins on craigslist

lordmarcovan · April 28, 2014 1:59PM

Fake? On Craigslist?

Naaaah!

Unknown · April 28, 2014 2:00PM

This content has been removed.

Zoins · April 28, 2014 2:02PM

<< We can meet at a public location, for obvious reasons. >>

Seems to be a local in Houston, TX.

MsMorrisine · April 28, 2014 2:13PM

new 2014 holder.

says they've had it for 6 months. maybe it wasn't graded until after 2014.

I can't get the cert # part of the barcode to check out. It appears different than the one I generated using the numbers on the label.

you could ask for a shot of the reverse including slab. Then, if the right holo is on there, ask for cert # off the holo and call pcgs. Perhaps let the person know the cert does not check out and see what the reaction is ... ????

wouldn't be the first time pcgs made a cert # mistake.

would be troubling if it is the first fake 2014 holder.

MsMorrisine · April 28, 2014 2:15PM

<< Had that coin for 6 months? In that holder? Cause that holder hasn't been around 6 months. >>

true, but the "coin" was had for 6 months. he may have had it holdered in 2014.

the part that bothers me is the cert number part of the barcode not checking out and the cert doesn't pull up to a $1 but a 25c.

coindeuce · April 28, 2014 11:15PM

I just checked the cert number, and it comes up legit here.. Check the images of the coin from the 2009 CSNS Heritage auction where it sold. It could have been reholdered recently. Conversely, the coin is currently listed in a PCGS Registry set, where the images of the coin in the older holder clearly show russet colored toning on the obverse periphery, which does not appear on the coin in the Craigslist image. Beware, as it may be a superimposed image of another coin over the real holder. You could try contacting the Registry set owner to ask for his input.

joebb21 · April 28, 2014 11:20PM

looks ok to me

stevepk · April 29, 2014 1:25AM

I contacted the seller and he provided another photo of the same coin in a different slab with a cert number that matches the PCGS cert verification. I followed the Heritage auction and compared the imaged photo to his. There were a few variations. First, the Heritage coin had toning where his did not. That could have just been poor lighting on his end though. Secondly, the bar code alignment was not consistent between the two coins despite the serial numbers being the same. If there is only one PCGS slab per cert number, shouldn't the two tags be identical? Is there a reason why there would be slight variances between two images of the same slab?

LindeDad · April 29, 2014 1:43AM

Well it's only priced about double what it sold for in 2009 has really poor image and is on Craig's list. I really think it's going to sell to a knowledgeable collector right.

AUandAG · April 29, 2014 1:44AM

Hard to tell from that image but I'd say it's a fake. AU50, 1889cc's could be sold locally to a dealer for
more than what he's asking. Clearly a scammer. Run Forest, run!

bob

KollectorKing · April 29, 2014 1:52AM

even if the coin is genuine, and the deal is legit, why

would anyone with a bit of knowledge pay double HA

auction price for it

unless of course, you're donald sterling or his gf.

coindeuce · April 29, 2014 2:00AM

<< I contacted the seller and he provided another photo of the same coin in a different slab with a cert number that matches the PCGS cert verification. I followed the Heritage auction and compared the imaged photo to his. There were a few variations. First, the Heritage coin had toning where his did not. That could have just been poor lighting on his end though. Secondly, the bar code alignment was not consistent between the two coins despite the serial numbers being the same. If there is only one PCGS slab per cert number, shouldn't the two tags be identical? Is there a reason why there would be slight variances between two images of the same slab? >>

It is way too much of a stretch to think that the Registry Set owner of the real coin needs to or wants to sell the coin, so it is a waste of time to even consider the Craigslist seller as being legitimate.

BAJJERFAN · April 29, 2014 2:03AM

<< Had that coin for 6 months? In that holder? Cause that holder hasn't been around 6 months. >>

Could have been a reholder. The coin in the older holder doesn't have the dimple.

BAJJERFAN · April 29, 2014 2:06AM

<< new 2014 holder.

says they've had it for 6 months. maybe it wasn't graded until after 2014.

I can't get the cert # part of the barcode to check out. It appears different than the one I generated using the numbers on the label.

you could ask for a shot of the reverse including slab. Then, if the right holo is on there, ask for cert # off the holo and call pcgs. Perhaps let the person know the cert does not check out and see what the reaction is ... ????

wouldn't be the first time pcgs made a cert # mistake.

would be troubling if it is the first fake 2014 holder. >>

The cert number 11414874 from the CL pic is indeed a 89-CC in au50

BAJJERFAN · April 29, 2014 2:07AM

<< I just checked the cert number, and it comes up legit here.. Check the images of the coin from the 2009 CSNS Heritage auction where it sold. It could have been reholdered recently. Conversely, the coin is currently listed in a PCGS Registry set, where the images of the coin in the older holder clearly show russet colored toning on the obverse periphery, which does not appear on the coin in the Craigslist image. Beware, as it may be a superimposed image of another coin over the real holder. You could try contacting the Registry set owner to ask for his input. >>

The set owner is using the Heritage pics.

MsMorrisine · April 29, 2014 2:07AM

<< I just checked the cert number, and it comes up legit here.. Check the images of the coin from the 2009 CSNS Heritage auction where it sold. It could have been reholdered recently. Conversely, the coin is currently listed in a PCGS Registry set, where the images of the coin in the older holder clearly show russet colored toning on the obverse periphery, which does not appear on the coin in the Craigslist image. Beware, as it may be a superimposed image of another coin over the real holder. You could try contacting the Registry set owner to ask for his input. >>

ok

last night we are absolutely sure this was a different cert number. 14114674 ... now the picture says 14114874.

for the cert number to change, this person has been alerted to change it somehow. either by reading the forums or someone telling him.

The cert number currently provided is known to have been used on counterfeits in the past.

The barcode is not even close on the cert number.

The barcode matches this barcode

coindeuce · April 29, 2014 2:15AM

I have no doubt that the Craigslist seller is adept at digital photo editing. But he is already busted on that note.

stevepk · April 29, 2014 6:38AM

I saved the seller's image of the coin on the day he posted it. Originally, the cert number was 14114674. The image today shows 14114874. The sixth digit was altered from a '6' to an '8' in the image even though the coin image remains the same. This change was made after I asked him about the discrepancy on the cert number verification. Hopefully no one with that much money is foolish enough to buy this coin.

This isn't the first fake PCGS slab I've seen on Craigs List. I pointed one out a few weeks ago to a seller who claimed he did not know his coin was fake. After I brought it to his attention with supportive Heritage auction photos, he sincerely thanked me for bringing it to his attention and swore he would never again buy from Ebay. The coin was re-listed as a genuine coin a few days later. This time, the coin had been cracked out of the slab.

A few other notable mentions I've seen lately on Craigs List include a single 2006 silver eagle for $450 and common date, common grade raw Eisenhower dollars for $350 apiece.

Where do these people come from and what kind of suckers do they draw?

I now automatically assume coin ads on Craigs List are fraudulent.

AUandAG · April 29, 2014 8:18AM

The new number comes up on Flicker as a fake. IT can be found in the registry sets as mentioned.
Clearly not the right coin and a fake all the way.

bob

messydesk · April 29, 2014 10:26PM

<< I now automatically assume coin ads on Craigs List are fraudulent. >>

That will save you lots of time and money.

slipgate · April 29, 2014 10:31PM

Is it possible the local police would be interested in this?

MsMorrisine · April 30, 2014 2:09AM

<< Is it possible the local police would be interested in this? >>

Try the Houston branch of the secret service, if one exists

Fake 1889 Carson City Morgan Dollar on Craigs List?

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