Judd-228 MS or Proof??

Ed62 · March 10, 2014 5:12AM

The PCGS pop report shows 24 of the J-228 (1859 transitional Indian Head cent) graded as 'Proofs' -- along with 274 graded in various MS grades.

On the other hand NGC does not show any 'Proofs' at all for the J-228 -- with 112 graded in MS grades.

Do we conclude NGC does not recognize any J-228's struck as proofs? I think Rick Snow has done some research that showed a certain die pair are identifiable as proofs??

coindeuce · March 10, 2014 5:41AM

I had a J-228 in hand recently, graded MS-65 by NGC. I did not even remotely entertain a thought of it being a Proof. YMMV. And / Or maybe everyone in possession of a J-228 Proof is smart enough to utilize PCGS for grading.

EagleEye · March 10, 2014 6:47AM

Proofs are pretty scarce. I estimate 20 minted. The Mint State examples are common with about 500 minted. These typically come in such nice condition that I think they were sold to dealers in the 1870's rather than in 1859. I have not seen any mention of them being offered from the mint in 1859.

Dave Bowers recently wrote an article asking if these should be considered regular issues. There is quite a buzz for them right now due to that. What do you think? I've always offered them as a neat extension to the regular set, but not as a regular issue.

From CoinFacts listed as Proof:

Proof

MS

Proof

Ed62 · March 10, 2014 7:52AM

"Dave Bowers recently wrote an article asking if these should be considered regular issues. There is quite a buzz for them right now due to that. What do you think?"

In the national archives there is a record of about 1000 of the new (reverse) design struck in December 1859 on the regular presses.

Conclusion: The MS pieces were struck as a regular issue and should be recognized as such.

1868LargeCent · March 10, 2014 8:57AM

One way to prove whether they're a regular or pattern: Any heavily circulated pieces known? If they end up being regulars, I better get one, and soon. How about the 1858 Indian Head, No Shield business strike? A similar number were struck toward the end of the year, they are known in circulated, and best of all I have one and it's an AU. Remember what happened to the 1866 no motto series. If this is true, I need to get one before it becomes official and ruins my complete Indian set.

EagleEye · March 10, 2014 1:00PM

Currently these are selling for $1,000 to $1,500 for MS-60 to MS-63, $1,800 for MS-64 and $2,000 to $2,500 for a MS-65 (below what a regular issue 1859 is in MS-65)

Definitely a cool coin, but I think a bunch will come out on the market now at higher prices (add 50%). They will get snapped up and in a few months settle back to where they are now.

Judd-228 MS or Proof??

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