Rant: Are there no coins anymore? And serious question about dealers

Automan · March 6, 2014 11:31PM

I have been off the modern coin scene for quite some time, but yesterday (like many times before) it struck me that it would be fun to put together an all-circulating-world-coins-set of a particular year and I decided to check out eBay to see what's happened in the world of coin designs in the last, few years. I decided to start with 2014 (would it not be fun to put together a set of 2014 coins during 2014?). So I go to eBay, select world coins, and type "2014" in the search window. Promisingly, this yielded 3700 hits and I thought I would spend an enjoyable hour perusing what's on offer.

However, I soon had cause to change my mind. What I found werecoins with colors on them, coins featuring horses (with and witout wings and horns) from a whole range of countries, coins issued for the olympics, coins featuring dragons, dinosaurs, pandas, coins of every shape and size except normal-sized round coins, coins that would not even qualify as NCLTs because they have no denominations, and an abundance of coins that have no relation to the countries where they were issued (e.g. Tuvalu, Tokelau, Congo, Cook Islands, Isle of Man and Somalia). What I did not find were sets of normal, circulating coins. Well, to be fair that not entirely true. For some reasone there is a large number of sets of Latvian coins for sale, and some sets of Andorra and the Vatican priced at 10-20 times the Euro-rate. I will admit that I soon grew bored and only perused the first 5-600 listings, but I have no cause to think that this sample was not representative of all 2014 listings.

So I tought to myself, "well, it's only early March, maybe many countries have not started releasing their real 2014 coins yet". So I did a search for "2013". It resulted in 7300 hits and while it felt like the number of differnt countries (and animals, but not, I would say, colors) was greater, circulating coins were still remarkable absent! Still, I know there are coins out there because I must have visited 20 countries in the last 5 years and except for Cambodia and Vietnam, they all used coins.

What, I ask, has happened to the world of coin collecting? Are these quasi-numismatic creations really what collectors of contemporary coins prefer nowadays?

Now to my question: Does anyone know of realiable sellers of uncirculated world-coin sets? I am not looking for proof sets, but sets of uncirculatd coins compiled from bank rolls or sets issued with uncirculated circualting coins. I am primarily looking for sellers in the European Union to avoid import duties, VAT and VAT on the import duties (which I have been charged!).

Cheers,

Auto

Aethelred · March 7, 2014 12:34AM

Hello Automan, it is good to see you.

You make some very valid points about the state of the hobby in 2014. As I see it, stick with the classics, enjoy historic old coins and ignore the modern fad coins.

Of late I have seen articles in The Numismatist that look like they could have been pulled from the pages of "Cat Fancy" magazine. I have alse seen articles about frogs, butterflies and whole coin series have been devoted to Harry Potter, lizards and various lions, tigers and bears. It is both amusing and depressing.

Aethelred · March 7, 2014 12:38AM

I am waiting for some third world nation to shave a live lion, tattoo "$20" on his side and call him legal tender!

STLNATS · March 7, 2014 12:53AM

<< Hello Automan, it is good to see you.If you

You make some very valid points about the state of the hobby in 2014. As I see it, stick with the classics, enjoy historic old coins and ignore the modern fad coins.

Of late I have seen articles in The Numismatist that look like the could have been pulled from the pages of "Cat Fancy" magazine. I have alse seen articles about frogs, butterflies and whole coin series have been devoted to Harry Potter, lizards and various lions, tigers and bears. It is both amusing and depressing. >>

+1. the Cat Fancy comment is quite apt!

One issue is that the relative value of circulating coins is generally relatively modest which makes it difficult for many/most dealer to profitably offer them, making collecting of recent issues a huge challenge. And especially since the 1960s, mints have figured out that enough collectors will pay a huge premium for just about anything especially if it features a topical/popular theme, is struck in precious metals and is offered in "low mintages" altho none of these will ever see circulation and are not really coins in any meaningful utilitarian sense. And, sad to say, even some of us jaded types will buy it if the notion strikes (my weakness is Vatican of course). But, if you take the long view, its interesting to muse on what an archeologist in a thousand years would think if they came across a hoard of this stuff.

When I started collecting (in the last century - sigh) there were a number of folks in this segment of the business, the one I dealt with most was Lauren Benson in Nebraska (I think). I'm not sure who's left since my interests have migrated to other areas. This would make an interesting collection so good luck! And please report back if you have any success.

STLNATS · March 7, 2014 12:55AM

<< I am waiting for some third world nation to shave a live lion, tattoo "$20" on his sise and call him legal tender! >>

How would you slab him, free dry or vacuum pack?

bronco2078 · March 7, 2014 1:04AM

Maybe the answer is to trade with someone? It seems cumbersome to set up and most likely impractical. Like posting that you want to trade 2014 US coins even up for a full set of 2014 coins from any country. I don't know where such a post would be seen by those interested though.

7Jaguars · March 7, 2014 1:07AM

Wow, I would not want a "crack out"!

I agree, modern is totally schlock as far as what's advertised with cats aplenty and many large and small hockey pucks.
There are some nice coins such as the 1965 Congo 10 francs with a beautiful lion rendition and actually a circulating coin.

Even though they are NCLT, I do like Franklin Mint proof and specimen sets.

Aethelred · March 7, 2014 1:16AM

<< 

<< I am waiting for some third world nation to shave a live lion, tattoo "$20" on his sise and call him legal tender! >>

How would you slab him, free dry or vacuum pack?

>>

And when his fur grows back, does his value go down?

Sapyx · March 7, 2014 9:30AM

I don't think it's about "what collectors want", because many collectors still want what you want - actual circulating coins, not mint gimmicks. But what you are seeing is rather "what people can sell". A few points to note on the topic.

Countries issue circulating coins when they need them. Not every country issues every denomination of circulating coin every year; only the largest economies (such as the United States) do that. Furthermore, some countries - especially smaller countries that do not have their own mint and therefore have to pay to import each and every coin they use - simply do not have any means of selling or distributing uncirculated coins to collectors, at all: there are no mint sets, there are no bank rolls, and there may even be laws in place preventing the mass-export of circulation coinage.

Secondly, even one year is not enough time for many countries to see circulating coinage come into use. I'm still waiting to see many of the 2013-denominated coins here in Australia. We know they were made, we just haven't seen them in change yet - they're still waiting in the Treasury vaults to be issued. Also, times have been tough economically lately. With the world in recession, there's less demand for new coinage. Mintages are down worldwide, so in that sense, there's simply fewer coins to go around.

Finally, assembling uncirculated made-for-circulation sets of coins is hard work, compared to simply going to a mint website and buying whatever they happen to be selling. So of course you're going to find it easier to find more people taking the second path, rather than the first.

mrpotatoheadd · March 7, 2014 10:56AM

In an overwhelming majority of cases, it has got to cost much more to put together sets of a current year's coinage for sale than one could ever hope to recoup through sales.

lordmarcovan · March 7, 2014 7:37PM

<< As I see it, stick with the classics, enjoy historic old coins and ignore the modern fad coins. >>

This works for me.

<< I am waiting for some third world nation to shave a live lion, tattoo "$20" on his side and call him legal tender! >>

ACop · March 9, 2014 4:52AM

Whats wrong with coins made of 2 materials including silver and agate stones which depict 3D horses frolicking in outer space?

3d horses on the moon

LochNESS · March 9, 2014 6:32PM

<< In an overwhelming majority of cases, it has got to cost much more to put together sets of a current year's coinage for sale than one could ever hope to recoup through sales. >>

This is the reason. If it were profitable, believe me someone would be selling it.

Circulating coinage is busy circulating. The best way to acquire is order rolls from a bank or get a pen pal to mail coins back/forth?

Stork · March 9, 2014 9:41PM

<< But what you are seeing is rather "what people can sell". >>

Exactly. And, as others have pointed out, the flea-bay fees and mailing etc. is just not 'worth it' for a dealer. Perhaps the best way to collect is to go on a 'round-the-world' cruise and pick everything up in person

. Also, it might just be worth a hop over to the BST forum and put up a post just as you mentioned-- 'will trade US coins for non-US 2014 circulating coins'. I sent a fair bit of my pocket change out from Japan/Spain when living overseas.

Cathy

Rant: Are there no coins anymore? And serious question about dealers

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