The $500,000 fingerprint

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tradedollarnut
tradedollarnut Posts: 20,754 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
Based on the price realized of the Newman 1799 dollar (which I graded 66+ and of similar quality), I think it safe to say that this is the most expensive fingerprint on a coin ever:



image
Early Dollar Set
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  • 291fifth
    291fifth Posts: 25,218 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    What this coin needs is a good story about how George Washington touched it just before his death on Dec. 14, 1799.image
    All glory is fleeting.
  • magikbilly
    magikbilly Posts: 6,780 ✭
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    That doesn't bother me at all. People do touch things, and this could be much more severe. The "negative" spotting and other artifacts in/on the surfaces to the left and above do a great job of obscuring it.

    Best wishes for a good weekend,
    Eric
  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    What is going on with the obverse rim at 2 o'clock, and the corresponding reverse rim at 4 o'clock? Minor rim clip?
    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • johnny9434
    johnny9434 Posts: 34,088 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    << <i>What this coin needs is a good story about how George Washington touched it just before his death on Dec. 14, 1799.image >>

    he handed it to his wife image
  • BustHalfBrian
    BustHalfBrian Posts: 4,200 ✭✭✭✭
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    Maybe they're thinking they'll tie the DNA to that of a founding father image
  • spy88
    spy88 Posts: 764 ✭✭
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    << <i>Maybe they're thinking they'll tie the DNA to that of a founding father >>


    I was thinking along the same line. It would be very interesting to be able to tie
    a DNA match to whomever the print belongs to...but you'd have to have their
    DNA in a data bank to get a hit.

    Could have been anyone from the past that 'pinched' it.
    Everything starts and everything stops at precisely the right time for precisely the right reason.
  • djdilliodon
    djdilliodon Posts: 1,938 ✭✭
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    Ok fine I'll admit it, the print is mine from my past life when I touched it.
  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Could you perhaps include a picture of the coin that was $500,000 more, and source the two of them?
    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • tradedollarnut
    tradedollarnut Posts: 20,754 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Press release referencing the two
    Early Dollar Set
  • 2ltdjorn
    2ltdjorn Posts: 2,331 ✭✭✭✭
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    a wire brush will take that off in just a few seconds!
    WTB... errors, New Orleans gold, and circulated 20th key date coins!
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  • TomB
    TomB Posts: 23,192 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    << <i>I like it no matter whose it was or whatever the story. A testament to its originality and it being natural. I wish every caretaker would just leave their coisn alone and stop trying to figure ways to enhance the darn pieces of metal inorder to reap even more. >>



    I'm making no assertions about this coin, but a fingerprint on a coin does not make the coin original; it merely means that a fingerprint is on the coin.
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
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  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Amazing strike and condition for the age.... Cheers, RickO
  • GeorgeKellogg
    GeorgeKellogg Posts: 1,251 ✭✭
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    I could be all wet, but to me this coin has the look of a dipped coin that has lightly re-toned in subsequent years. From the photo (which admittedly doesn't correspond to an in-hand assessment), the piece seems a bit too bright to be virgin skin on a 214-year-old coin.
    "Clamorous for Coin"
  • djdilliodon
    djdilliodon Posts: 1,938 ✭✭
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    The print on that coin doesn't bother me at all.
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  • tradedollarnut
    tradedollarnut Posts: 20,754 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Sorry guys but this coin is famous for being the one truly original bust dollar. Drips with luster - just has that darn print.
    Early Dollar Set
  • GeorgeKellogg
    GeorgeKellogg Posts: 1,251 ✭✭
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    << <i>Sorry guys but this coin is famous for being the one truly original bust dollar. Drips with luster - just has that darn print. >>



    I clicked on the Press Release and the accompanying photo of this specimen looks quite a bit darker (and more along the lines of what one would expect to see on a truly original coin) than the photo in the OP. The PR photo also clearly shows a second fingerprint at 9 o'clock on the obverse.
    "Clamorous for Coin"
  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    << <i>Press release referencing the two >>



    Thank you.
    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    << <i>

    << <i>Sorry guys but this coin is famous for being the one truly original bust dollar. Drips with luster - just has that darn print. >>



    I clicked on the Press Release and the accompanying photo of this specimen looks quite a bit darker (and more along the lines of what one would expect to see on a truly original coin) than the photo in the OP. The PR photo also clearly shows a second fingerprint at 9 o'clock on the obverse. >>



    Good catch!

    Isn't it amazing what one can do with lighting!
    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • yosclimber
    yosclimber Posts: 5,322 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Definitely a big difference!

    The thread title reminded me of the story of the infamous $40,000 or $50,000 fingerprint on the former MS69 Indian Cent:
    http://forums.collectors.com/arcmessageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=1035
    http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=899748
  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    << <i>What is going on with the obverse rim at 2 o'clock, and the corresponding reverse rim at 4 o'clock? Minor rim clip? >>



    Anyone?
    Class?
    Bueller?
    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    <crickets>
    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • shylock
    shylock Posts: 4,288 ✭✭✭
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    It looks worse in the press release image than the Coinfacts image.
    The second print is almost insignificant in Coinfacts. What does it really look
    like in person is all that counts.

    image
    Paul <> altered surfaces <> CoinGallery.org
  • Walkerfan
    Walkerfan Posts: 10,392 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I'm bothered by it, especially @ 500K! It is not a minor print.

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • tradedollarnut
    tradedollarnut Posts: 20,754 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    << <i>I'm bothered by it, especially @ 500K! It is not a minor print. >>



    You missed the point - the fingerprint knocks $500k off the value. From $800k (price realized on the Newman coin) to $300k (a bit more than I paid a couple of years ago).
    Early Dollar Set
  • Walkerfan
    Walkerfan Posts: 10,392 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    << <i>

    << <i>I'm bothered by it, especially @ 500K! It is not a minor print. >>



    You missed the point - the fingerprint knocks $500k off the value. From $800k (price realized on the Newman coin) to $300k (a bit more than I paid a couple of years ago). >>



    I need to read more thoroughly---thanks for clarifying.

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • Zoins
    Zoins Posts: 34,489 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Great point on the fingerprint.

    And another example of how great TrueViews are.
    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • tradedollarnut
    tradedollarnut Posts: 20,754 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    << <i>It looks worse in the press release image than the Coinfacts image.
    The second print is almost insignificant in Coinfacts. What does it really look
    like in person is all that counts.

    image >>



    IMO, both are accurate depending on how the light is hitting the coin.
    Early Dollar Set
  • tradedollarnut
    tradedollarnut Posts: 20,754 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Laura held this in her hand yesterday and said "where'd the fingerprint go?" It really only shows that darkly when held at one certain angle. The rest of the time it is translucent and blends in with the other toning rather well.
    Early Dollar Set
  • Bullsitter
    Bullsitter Posts: 6,298 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Spots and fingerprints drive me nuts !!

    This coin has an awesome strike, but the eye appeal is not so awesome, jmo.
  • jmski52
    jmski52 Posts: 24,011 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Nice flowlines!
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • BryceM
    BryceM Posts: 11,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Yeah, but there are plenty of things to lament about with coins from this era. It makes the others that much more special.

    ... not that this one isn't rather impressive even with the print.
  • ColonelJessup
    ColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The same guy who "cleaned" the EPNNES coins also "did" Farouk's. . image . image
    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • EastonCollection
    EastonCollection Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    One way to think about it is the fingerprint saved you big $$ on the buy side and the other way is the fingerprint does document its originality and shows alot of character. If it was perfect then it would lose that character.

    I think about a coin prior history - way back then - coins were made not to collect but as a means of conducting commerce. (yes there were presentation pieces but this wasn't one of them) So this coin shows someone a long time ago put away this coin and saved it from commerce and preserved it from alot of history - The coin is about 213 years old - if the average life expectancy was 60 years old then this coin had minimum 4 to 5 caretakers. In the early years, no one paid big bucks for this coin so - hats off to those that owned that coin and saved this coin from circulation, unfortunately one person during that time mishandled the coin - for a brief second. We still have a treasure from our past preserved in great shape except for that darn fingerprint.
    Easton Collection
  • EastonCollection
    EastonCollection Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    manofcoins - agreed!
    Easton Collection
  • shylock
    shylock Posts: 4,288 ✭✭✭
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    I forgot I had an image I took of this TDN image

    image

    Paul <> altered surfaces <> CoinGallery.org
  • metalmeister
    metalmeister Posts: 4,633 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Thumb prints not for me. Nice coin under certain lighting though.
    email: ccacollectibles@yahoo.com

    100% Positive BST transactions
  • tradedollarnut
    tradedollarnut Posts: 20,754 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    << <i>I forgot I had an image I took of this TDN image

    image >>



    I think that's true to how the coin really is - the fingerprint is fairly translucent except at one angle
    Early Dollar Set
  • shylock
    shylock Posts: 4,288 ✭✭✭
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    But a beautiful and historical coin where the print actually adds to its interest, thanks for letting me see it.
    Paul <> altered surfaces <> CoinGallery.org
  • roadrunner
    roadrunner Posts: 28,374 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I don't think the price difference would have been $500K if this coin were also in the Newman collection along with the other one.

    Any chance that this "Boston" specimen traces back to NERCG (Jim Halperin) in the mid-1970's?
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • Justlooking
    Justlooking Posts: 2,895 ✭
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    That's one huge frickin' finger.

    Great coin.
    Let's try not to get upset.
  • PerryHall
    PerryHall Posts: 47,755 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    << <i>But a beautiful and historical coin where the print actually adds to its interest, thanks for letting me see it. >>



    Unless a print can be proven or documented to belong to a famous person, I don't understand how any print can add anything to a coin other than negative eye appeal.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • Unknown
    Unknown
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  • shylock
    shylock Posts: 4,288 ✭✭✭
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    Unless a print can be proven or documented to belong to a famous person, I don't understand how any print can add anything to a coin other than negative eye appeal.

    I think the fact that the source of the print will never be known, and it may be from the original owner, just adds to the provenance on a coin like this.
    I hate prints on most coins. And no doubt this print left some money on the table. But there is something very original about this coin I loved
    when seeing it in person, dripping with mint luster, and tagged by someone who held it centuries ago by their two grubby thumbs.
    Paul <> altered surfaces <> CoinGallery.org
  • ebaybuyer
    ebaybuyer Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭
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    I find it absolutely astonishing how a 200+ year old piece of silver can remain essentially untoned, yet if one cleans a silver spoon and sets it on the counter it will be black in six months. either silver becomes magically protected from tarnishing when it is in the shape of a coin or perhaps there is some other explanation.
    regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
  • WillieBoyd2
    WillieBoyd2 Posts: 5,410 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Does anyone know how old the fingerprint is or when it was first noticed?

    image
    https://www.brianrxm.com
    The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
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  • nags
    nags Posts: 913 ✭✭✭✭
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    Aren't there actually 2 fingerprints? One on each side of the obverse.
  • tradedollarnut
    tradedollarnut Posts: 20,754 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    << <i>I find it absolutely astonishing how a 200+ year old piece of silver can remain essentially untoned, yet if one cleans a silver spoon and sets it on the counter it will be black in six months. either silver becomes magically protected from tarnishing when it is in the shape of a coin or perhaps there is some other explanation. >>



    It is far from essentially untoned...but yes, the higher the silver content the faster it tones. A piece of silver flatware is .925 whereas a coin is .900
    Early Dollar Set

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