The Order of the Teutonic Knights

EVillageProwler · February 1, 2014 7:49AM

A friend of mine has become very interested in obtaining a nice Teutonic coin for his collection. In honor of his quest, I offer mine here for folks' viewing pleasure.

I got this 2 years ago raw from CNG at the NYINC show. It is now slabbed (but let's not turn this into a GTG thread). This is Dav-5848, with the Emperor Maximilian on the obverse and the Grand Master on horseback. It's not a rare type, but due to its popularity it's become scarce to find nice and pricey too.

brg5658 · February 1, 2014 8:44AM

Love this coin! My example came from Zohar!

worldcoinguy · February 1, 2014 8:44AM

Beautiful piece, but why be so mysterious about the grade?

Zohar · February 1, 2014 8:59AM

EVP - what a nice coin. I recall you and GregM sitting next to me @ the CNG table picking this one out.

brg5658 - believe it or not, that horsie was once worldcoinguy's!

EVillageProwler · February 1, 2014 9:16AM

<< <i>Beautiful piece, but why be so mysterious about the grade? >>

Not being mysterious... I simply don't like the focus on grades, even though it may seem funny coming from me (who likes high-end pieces).

If I say the grade is ##, then some folks will be tempted to "grade" this coin off this image, and then they'll profess themselves to be "experts" and all that jazz. This actually happened to me in person at the NYINC 2014 show. I had bought some coins, and Zohar made the mistake of offering to show *my* coins to some others who started to "grade" my coins (which were, and still are, raw). These two "experts" were NOT experts at grading to PCGS nor NGC standards. But yet they needed to flash their peace*ck feathers for me to see -- even though I am quite comfortable with my own purchases and decisions.

EVP

worldcoinguy · February 1, 2014 9:38AM

OK - I think that is a rational answer but I would argue that it is the repetitive exercise of seeing coins and the associated grade (assigned by the respective TPG) that sharpens people's skills around here. Don't let two know-it-all collectors rain on the parade for the rest of us.

worldcoinguy · February 1, 2014 9:58AM

Think about it from a statistical perspective. I imagine that you have literally seen tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of pieces in your collecting career. In that time, you have learned to internalize the grading means for different pieces, series, and time periods. You know what makes a AU50 different from a AU58 for an italian states piece, and the criteria is likely different from that of a taler of the same date minted 200 miles away. You can quickly differentiate a MS62 taler from a MS64 taler. Not everybody around here has that ability. Furthermore, as your experience expanded, you were also able to start seeing how the long term grading means at different TPGs were moving along a trendline (call it gradeflation if you will). This experience has given you the innate ability to spot statistical outliers - both above the standard range and below the standard range. If there is a piece outside the 3 standard deviations, you will catch it immediately. My main point - your abilities were likely honed through good guidance from friends, intuition, experience, and above all repetition. Sharing grades in a forum like this just helps others build their own knowledge base and add to their own internalized mental map of the hobby.

EVillageProwler · February 1, 2014 10:06AM

The coin was graded 62, which I agree with. From the image, I might have guessed AU. Bottom line: this may not be such a good teachable moment other than that Zohar will probably not offer to show my coins again...

Zohar · February 1, 2014 10:11AM

This design is from 1603 - obverse and reverse are spectacular. Maximilian the Grandmaster must have been pleased

worldcoinguy · February 1, 2014 10:25AM

I would second the opinion that the grade is on target. I see a nice strike with good detail in the traditional weak areas - knees and face on obverse in particular. I think the TPGs give significant weight to the clarity of strike when evaluating the technical grade. The overall clean fields and remaining luster in the recesses provide the additional support for the the grade. Great piece.

EVillageProwler · February 1, 2014 10:33AM

<< <i>This design is from 1603 - obverse and reverse are spectacular. Maximilian the Grandmaster must have been pleased >>

Thanks for the correction. I actually thought that Max was the GM, but was too lazy to verify.

Anyway, I just want to say how glad I am that I got priced out of the Choice MS classic US market and ventured into the world stuff. In the US market, too many folks argue over holders, inserts, stickers and designations. The folks in the LSCC and JRCS are too few, and the differences too minute.

Here, we study history and not simply die marriages and states.

TDN and Cardinal may kill me for saying this, but it'd rather own that EPN Londonia penny than the Specimen 1794 dollar (value differences aside, of course!). That 1794 dollar represents, allegedly, a fledgling nation's hopes. But the Londonia penny represents the survival of an entire nation -- because it was struck to celebrate Aelfred's victory march back into London after defeating the Vikings.

Aelfred's grandson, Aethelstan, was proclaimed Rex Totius Britanniae and savior of Europe for further defeating the Vikings, consolidating lordship over Wales and all the Anglo-Saxon lands.

Knowing why the die states for the 1797 10x6 dollars are so poor is MUCH less interesting than the above!

EVP

marcmoish · February 1, 2014 10:50AM

I could see where you saw AU at first but its really well graded and a beautiful piece - love the details - enjoy

Pokermandude · February 1, 2014 10:53AM

Awesome piece! I really like coins of that era with life-like images of themselves in arms and armor.

EVillageProwler · February 1, 2014 11:09AM

Btw, here's the thread to my Aethelstan penny that marks him as REX TOTIUS BRITANNIAE: Lookie Here!

nicholasz219 · February 1, 2014 2:06PM

Ugh, I want to go buy all of the British coins right now. Nice Maximilian and nice Aethelstan.

mkman123 · February 3, 2014 1:46PM

wow love the look of this coin!!!! A must get now!

JohnnyCache · February 3, 2014 2:11PM

Very nice coin EVP, I particularly enjoy the reverse design.

A big sincere thank you to worldcoinguy, as I feel I am very much one of those individuals who you so well described as benefiting from reading these posts and seeing various graded coins.
I have my numismatic books and literature, I attend local shows and view and participate in auctions but it is here, on these very boards, that I feel I have been able to gain some of the best knowledge. My thanks to you too EVP for sharing the grade especially in light of the story you relayed. If it's any consolation, with every post you are helping someone who really appreciates it.

JC

The Order of the Teutonic Knights

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