eBay's coin community watch group is a fake
CalGoldNut
Posts: 9
It's clear to me that who ever these few uneducated people on the CCW group are do not understand my specialty of California fractional gold and tokens. It's sad that these "fakes" can hide behind a curtain and have legitimate listings pulled for no reason. I have had a listing removed every one to two days for two weeks. Of course talking to eBay trust and safety, more fakes, provides nothing but time wasted. I am convinced that there is a very vindictive person that has the power to influence eBay to have my listings pulled. This person is a weasel at best and does not belong in the Numismatic community. Since the first one was pulled over two weeks ago, I have received it back from NGC via their Express service and mailing. I paid over $100 to have a $50 coin certified to prove a point. I supplied the information to what T&S states was an appeals process but yet the listings continue to be pulled. I have been dealing mostly in Cal fractional gold and tokens for over 45 years, have all 5 star ratings, been on eBay since 2000 and a Life member of the ANA and MSNS for over 35 years. I have emails and voice messages from Heritage contacting me when they don't know what they have. I do NOT mean to brag but simply provide who I am and my credentials. I have one of the largest inventories of over 700 pieces of Cal fractional and tokens at any given time and have handled thousands. Over 50% of the items in the California fractional category in eBay at anytime are brass tokens being sold for the real deal. Yet I have invested in and maintain a website which is eBay approved to be linked off my listings educating the interested people about the differences of Cal Gold. Yet here I have some moron hiding behind this curtain ruining my business and reputation because they "think" one of my items are a replica or restrike. That is why I am postings this on this board. Hoping to reach this person and hold an intelligent conversation with them on just what kind of damage they can do when guessing or not knowing what they are talking about. Stand up like a professional and engage in communication instead of hiding like the pathetic person that you are. Chris Terry oldwestgold
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<< <i>Mr. Terry I am in no way shape or form near your level of numismatic excellence, that being said I understand your frustration. I had a listing that had a BIN with offer and it kept getting canceled stating it was a fake by an nameless complainant because it was not in a holder from NGC or PCGS. Ebay told me unless I had it certified by a TPG I could not list it. All for a 1943 Lincoln cent that was circulated. >>
So that was your 43 copper cent with a BIN of 1 million dollars and zero feedback coming out of Central America
Edited for typo and to say that I have never reported anything as fake to Ebay authorities....
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
Post pictures of the associated removed item.
If someone had it in for you, you have many items in the wrong categories. They could report them if they really were after you.
has this ever been removed?
I hold you in very high regard.
I hope whoever you are referring to does come forward to engage in meaningful dialog with you.
They should do that, on both professional and moral grounds.
It can only result in the betterment of this focus of numismatics.
You do a great job on your website and your devotion to California fractional gold is to be commended.
All the best!
It'd help to see and read the backstory on at least one of these
<< <i>Or a link to the relisted item...
It'd help to see and read the backstory on at least one of these >>
+1
i'd like to know precisely what the messages say from ebay as to why the listing(s) were removed since there are a lot of reasons.
i'm not reading all that clump in the op. break it up man!
edited to add:
the title to this thread is a bit disappointing.
for anyone interested in ebay groups - there is one link to use. kinda on topic?
.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I am very sorry to that some vindictive person is doing this to you.
The same thing repeatable happened to me on craigslist in my city.
Someone who sells similar coins kept reporting me to have my ads removed so that they would have less competition.
Shame on them!!
Good luck in finding and dealing with this person.
"Sometimes problematic auctions are identified by a group of members that comprise a Community Watch Group for currency listings. As far as the exact problem with the item(s), the following was received from the Coin Community Watch group: "A forgery or restrike made from altered dies. This does not match the raw coin sold at Heritage as part of a large gold token lot." With regard to the assessment of the listing, as eBay employs no experts in the field of currency we are unable to arbitrate disputes."
"Sometimes problematic auctions are identified by a group of members that comprise a Community Watch Group for currency listings. As far as the exact problem with the item(s), the following was received from the Coin Community Watch group: "Both coins in the listing appear to be some type of plated numis-trash." With regard to the assessment of the listing, as eBay employs no experts in the field of currency we are unable to arbitrate disputes."
Members of the CWG are (supposedly) experts/specialists in their fields. No doubt they make mistakes now and then, just as everyone does. But if there is a pattern...or ongoing bad calls...or a suspicion that you are being harassed and/or targeted then ebay should hear about it. The "expert" can be pulled from the CWG.
Do not expect him to come forward and contact you directly. It is forbidden by ebay. Members of the CWG must remain publicly invisible.
Lance.
<< <i>probably someone here, many of the "reporters" have already indicated that it doesn't make a squirt of difference if they get a legitimate listing removed in the process >>
Huh? What tripe.
Lance.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
the auction to the CCW. I do not know how detailed each CCW member's profile is (what they are an expert
in) so it is possible that many non-experts receive the information. To a non-specialist in California tokens,
many of these pieces look like modern replicas of California Fractional Gold coins.
While there may be members of the CCW that actively search for auctions to report, for the most part they
simply receive reports and reply to them.
Bottom line, I really doubt that anyone "has it in" for you -- much more likely that they just do not know the
series. Obviously they should not comment when they do not possess the expertise, but that is entirely
another subject.
You might want to ask eBay to identify a handful of CCW members that know these pieces, and have all of
the reported auctions sent exclusively to them, but that might take years to get right. Have you considered
using a special description for the tokens that helps to identify them better to neophytes?
(1) Ebay receives a "report" of an ebay policy violation either through the normal "report item" link or the special coin reporting form.
(2) If it is an obvious coin or currency listing violation the ebay rep receiving the report will take necessary action.
(3) If ebay rep is unable to determine a violation (such as counterfeit) then report is forwarded to a voluntary group of "coin specialists" who advise ebay on technical coin specifics.
Who these volunteers are remains a mystery. Hopefully ebay has enlisted the help of knowledgable CCW group members. I'm sure that we have one or more forum members that are CCW participants and I thank them for their service, but also would ask that they not guess on making a call. I also believe they are sworn to secrecy concerning their CCW affiliation.
Keep in mind that a fellow ebay member cannot pull your listings. All a fellow member can do is report what he/she thinks is a violation. I like this program in that it allows members to point out suspected violations. The decision of what action to take, if any, lies with ebay.
Those reporting coin policy listing violations to ebay can facilitate action by using the coin reporting form and be specific as to what the listing violation is. To do this the person doing the reporting needs to be clear on the coin and currency listing policy which does periodically change.
To the OP, it appers you are the victim of an ebay employee who failed to seek the professional opinon of the CCW or an error in judgment by the CCW. I suspect it is an over zealous ebay employee. Accusations of counterfeit will most likely always go to the CCW because of the lack of specific coin knowledge held by ebay employees. Continue to follow-up with ebay with their error and I am sure you will not only be vindicated but you will help them identify a possible weakness in process. I would also ask that if any forum members are in fact part of the secret CCW society that they review the OPs complaint and work with ebay in making the OP whole.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Allowing a term like that to pass through email to a long-time and stellar customer of theirs is amateur and childish.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
TD
(No, I don't have any direct experience with them myself, but there's info on the web and I can't find a shred of positive comments...)
<< <i>Is there a single most authoritative reference work on California gold coins and tokens? And what is the difference between the two? "Coins" is obvious; they were used as money. But "tokens" implies something much different, especially if what is made to appear as gold isn't entirely gold. This is, indeed, a confusing area of numismatics and I would like to learn more. >>
A very good comment. There are too many brass fakes being offered as the real deal as you state. I just think that it is a person with no knowledge of the subject trying to control a field in which they are not even an amateur yet. Someone trying to feel important. Unfortunately, once they log on to something, it is hard to impossible to get them off your back. I only report auctions that I know are fake-I have never reported a California gold fake.
Welcome to the forum. I do not know of any forum member collects California gold fractionals, but I am sure that there are some. This is a very limited, and as stated above, confusing area of numismatics. There are probably some very scarce to rare coins that sell fairly cheaply when compared to regular US coins. Ebay is not a great experience a lot of times. Perhaps you can list do well by listing some on the BST here.
Bob
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>I don't know anything about ebay coin policies but using the term "numis-trash" is inexcusable.
Allowing a term like that to pass through email to a long-time and stellar customer of theirs is amateur and childish. >>
That is what jumped out to me. Very unprofessional to use the term "numis-trash". But hey, one man's numis-trash is another's numis-treasure.
<< <i>Serious question.... does anybody have an email address where I can volunteer my services to this CCW so they can ask me about situations such as this? I have some experience at authentication.
TD >>
report yourself for mad skills
Words of wisdom here and I agree.
Is a member of the CCW allowed to also sell on eBay?
Would that be a conflict of interest?
<< <i>Here are two of the messages sent by eBay. What is confusing is I never mentioned the word Heritage in my listing nor any of the other references made. So what was this CCW individual smoking this day he or she had my listing pulled? In the second sentence the individual uses the term numis-trash to be cute, in my opinion. A term I have never heard. And they state "appear to be some type of plated numis-trash." Does this individual realize that the majority of Period 2 California fractional pieces are gold over a base core? And they must have the gift of being able to provide you with the metalergy content of a coin via a small picture? All of the below coins have since been certified genuine by NGC via their Express program.
"Sometimes problematic auctions are identified by a group of members that comprise a Community Watch Group for currency listings. As far as the exact problem with the item(s), the following was received from the Coin Community Watch group: "A forgery or restrike made from altered dies. This does not match the raw coin sold at Heritage as part of a large gold token lot." With regard to the assessment of the listing, as eBay employs no experts in the field of currency we are unable to arbitrate disputes."
"Sometimes problematic auctions are identified by a group of members that comprise a Community Watch Group for currency listings. As far as the exact problem with the item(s), the following was received from the Coin Community Watch group: "Both coins in the listing appear to be some type of plated numis-trash." With regard to the assessment of the listing, as eBay employs no experts in the field of currency we are unable to arbitrate disputes." >>
The usage of Heritage here is to compare for authenticity. "numis-crap" is likely not to insult you nor your items, but as you know there are plenty of brass charms that get listed as the real thing and I am guessing if this person or persons are not targeting all your listings, then they probably think what they are looking at are the cheap dimestore junk that gets listed as real....'
It is good adivce to have an authoritative source outside yourself validate your items. Include that in your listings (and I think you did that with one item where you have a scan of a book entry as an image... do that)
And....
after you jump through all the suggestion hoops I could make, it is still possible for someone to pull the auction because eBay people sometimes just don't think.
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as stated this appears not to be the work of someone with a vendetta. As stated you have lots of items in the wrong categories and you could be reported for each of them. (Although a vendetta is not impossible. I suspect someone here has a person or persons out to get them on eBay.)
I'm going to go with a sophomore... a little knowledge can be dangerous.
I still could be wrong. I'm a sophomore.
==============================
I'd start trying to provide other validation of your items in your description
I'd change the categories some are in
I'd change some of the language (me... a newb... suggesting language change? to him? For something like a non-monetary token I'd use "exonumia" in the title and description and list in the exonumia category. I'd spell out the item is a collectible period token or charm circa ___ . See reference ______ ) But, yes, someone would still probably call something "numis-trash" to which I'd reply that, to some, exonumia is all numis-trash.
I see a lot of listings under the
Coins & Paper Money
>
Coins: US
>
Gold
>
Fractional, Pioneer
category that aren't and have "Cal Gold guy" or "California Gold" in the title. I can see the description, but I'd say things are misplaced and have words or other things that some may object to, spurring their "report tendencies."
Example:
1849 Indian HD $1 / California Gold Token Type / Hart's Coins of the Golden West
do you expect eBay to research each item?
this is a token (you use token, but token type ? and on top of that "$1" a dollar is not a token?) and you don't elaborate in the description.
it's not 1849 despite the date (no elaboration in the description)
it may be a collectible token, but it is in the Fractional, Pioneer > Gold > Us: Coins when it is not a coin, wasn't money even if the coin word is under debate, and wasn't likely pioneer.
plus it is not "$" just "one" (because it is a token)
There's lots of room for someone to have that reported.
It is unfortunate that such items are being reported because all one needs to do is look up "Hart's Coins of the Golden West" and you find out what it is, but you could still get reported by an eBay user with """a more strict interpretation of the eBay rules.""" (and eBay does do strict interpretations...)
Again, I'd spell it all out, provide third party references, and use the exonumia category, just as my advice. Unfortunately, this will likely not prevent reports and auctions nuked because sometimes eBay people just don't think and may not go so far as to prove or disprove things to themselves with a little research.
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My other bit of advice is to stay on the various forums and teach what pioneer gold and other period items look like and don't look like. What's collectible and what's not worth the postage stamp to mail it.
I'll bet those reporting the items are readers of the various fora.
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Also, instead of "new topic" look to the right and you will see "profile"
select profile
somewhere on that page is "turn on private messages" ... turn them on.
I'll send you an e-mail that you can use to email me pics of the items that get yanked and I can hopefully post them here to show people what is going on.
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Welcome, and sorry you will likely continue having trouble with your listings due to sophomoric ebay users.
It seems that eBay wasn't complaining about where the items were listed, but rather their authenticity overall. And they were totally out to lunch in that regard.
<< <i>Per some of MsMorrisine's comments... Some of the OP's items aren't literally "Fractional, Pioneer" coins, but I agree that that he listed them in the right place even so. They're collected by people who collect the same things. Sure they could be listed in one of the other exonumia categories, but I don't think it would be better to do so, just different. And very likely worse, from the perspective of both the seller and the buyers who would be looking for these items.
It seems that eBay wasn't complaining about where the items were listed, but rather their authenticity overall. And they were totally out to lunch in that regard. >>
if a newb is looking for "pioneer gold" and comes across a token, they may say "FAKE!" (or "numis-trash") in their report. I should have said that in the earlier post. thus my suggestions.
<< <i>If tokens are listed in a Coins category, as opposed to the Token category of Exonumia, then are they not in violation of eBay listing rules? >>
The OP hasn't provided any examples yet.
I was just using what I saw listed as an example.
<< <i>if a newb is looking for "pioneer gold" and comes across a token, they may say "FAKE!" (or "numis-trash") in their report. >>
newbie or not, a violation report to ebay does not nuke a listing, it only brings it to Ebay's attention. Ebay makes a determination based on their interpretation of their listing rules OR in the case of a technical coin issue based on solicited opinion from their "trusted" group of coin experts. Hopefully they rely on more than just one opinion.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>Serious question.... does anybody have an email address where I can volunteer my services to this CCW so they can ask me about situations such as this? I have some experience at authentication.
TD >>
Tom, ebay should HIRE you !!!!!!!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>Serious question.... does anybody have an email address where I can volunteer my services to this CCW so they can ask me about situations such as this? I have some experience at authentication.
TD >>
Tom, ebay should HIRE you !!!!!!!!! >>
Not a bad idea
No guessing !
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
<< <i>Serious question.... does anybody have an email address where I can volunteer my services to this CCW so they can ask me about situations such as this? I have some experience at authentication.
TD >>
report yourself for mad skills >>
I tried, but you cannot send them a message without referring to a specific item number.