How important is having a CAC sticker on

PTVETTER · October 15, 2013 6:44AM

A PCGS graded MS tonned morgan dollar ?

indeetlib · October 15, 2013 6:49AM

Not my area, but judging by prices realized it seems to be all the rage.

I guess it offers buyers an additional assurance the toning is original and the grade is not inflated because of the toning (as often seems to be the case).

TomB · October 15, 2013 6:56AM

I don't know, but I guess the other way to also look at this question is to wonder what the downside is to having a CAC sticker on such a coin. Perhaps that might help to better frame or answer the questions.

steveben · October 15, 2013 7:04AM

a couple of quick-n-dirty ebay searchs reveals some (very) rough stats:

toned morgan dollar pcgs -(cac), sold listings only:
# of listings: 460
high: $4750
low: $45

toned morgan dollar pcgs cac, sold listings only:
# of listings: 43
high: $2964
low: $61

if i remove the statistical outliers in each group, i get:
without cac:
$45 - $1600
with cac:
$106 - $1900

which gives us 135% on the low end and almost 19% on the high end...advantage cac

PTVETTER · October 15, 2013 7:06AM

Tom has a good point.

I guess the question is how much does a CAC sticker help increase the selling price of said dollar.

Seems today SOOO many relay on others opinions.

Placid · October 15, 2013 7:08AM

You buying or selling?
Buy without sell with.

PTVETTER · October 15, 2013 7:09AM

Steveben
Nice and very quick facts and figures

Look like CAC is worth the $12.50 + s/h

PTVETTER · October 15, 2013 7:10AM

I will be selling at the Baltimore show in November

Shortgapbob · October 15, 2013 7:13AM

If it is a coin that is deriving a large premium from its color, the CAC approval will be a definite plus on the validity of the color.

Placid · October 15, 2013 7:22AM

<< Steveben
Nice and very quick facts and figures

Look like CAC is worth the $12.50 + s/h >>

Unless you get unlucky.

AMRC · October 15, 2013 7:24AM

Depends.

If the coin has been sent to CAC and not stickered? I for one, would most likely pass.

If the coin has never been to CAC, then I rely on my own accord to determine how well graded and original the coin is, and of course, how it will fare when I send it to CAC.

I can hear a few of you saying "how would you know?" And the answer is, with the premium stickered coins commanding higher premiums (as evidenced by auction records), many dealers (read this to mean not all) make sending their purchases, grades and regrades to CAC part of their very regular "prep for market" process. Also, any ethical dealer will tell you.

CAC is supposed to represent that the coin is in the top 2/3's of the grade, and that it has original surfaces. Always? Never. Mostly? Always.

And to the point earlier? I have never heard of an instance where having a sticker has hurt a coin's value or quality perception.

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD · October 15, 2013 7:30AM

<< 

<< Steveben
Nice and very quick facts and figures

Look like CAC is worth the $12.50 + s/h >>

Unless you get unlucky. >>

if you submit through a dealer then you have to pay wether it stickers or not...if you submit as a collector, they only charge you if the coin stickers!

Erik

tradedollarnut · October 15, 2013 7:31AM

And to the point earlier? I have never heard of an instance where having a sticker has hurt a coin's value or quality perception.

I would think that a great looking coin in a rattler holder would actually lose value with just a green sticker. The potential windfall of an unreviewed lock upgrade without the sticker might be counteracted by the green.

Bochiman · October 15, 2013 7:33AM

For the $12.50, particularly if you have other coins you can send it to help spread the cost of shipping, it is usually worth it.
It may or may not come to play with the final price, but if it does, then it helps. Even if it doesn't, why take a chance?

On the flip side, if it is still a nice looking coin, and graded correctly but on the lower end of the grade, CAC may not sticker it....and some folks may not like that because they only buy/sell the plastic/sticker.
I have a few coins that I really like that CAC did not sticker. I talked with JA and he liked them as well, but they weren't A or B in his eyes, but C coins (ie....lower end of the grade). That said, I like them and am keeping them, even without the sticker.

If one believes in "buy the coin not the holder" and they rely on a sticker, then I don't have much faith in them as it is still the same coin. Now, if the reason it didn't sticker is because JA felt it had been worked/puttied/etc, then that is a different issue.

So, in this case, Pat, I would say that you have the coin in hand and that you probably have a better idea on how well it would sell at the price you want than the rest of us. If you posted a picture, it may help. A monster toned morgan, with CAC sticker, would like add more than $12.50 to the end price whereas a marginally toned (common toning look) coin with a green sticker may not really change the price at all.

Just mho.

PTVETTER · October 15, 2013 7:37AM

What I have are Morgan dollars just returned from PCGS and sent into CAC for stickers got 18 stickered and 2 non.

Most were toned and I am beginning to believe that all MS 66 morgans need a sticker to get the attention they deserve.

CAC shipped them out this evening so I will have them latter this week

RYK · October 15, 2013 7:40AM

<< And to the point earlier? I have never heard of an instance where having a sticker has hurt a coin's value or quality perception.

I would think that a great looking coin in a rattler holder would actually lose value with just a green sticker. The potential windfall of an unreviewed lock upgrade without the sticker might be counteracted by the green. >>

I agree. I have coins that would probably sell for more without the green sticker as upgrades would be assumed by most.

But in the setting of a common date, recently graded toned Morgan, a sticker would probably improve liquidity.

magikbilly · October 15, 2013 7:51AM

With what Bruce said in mind aside, if you have a really good coin with the qualities I think it would or should sell to the right collector w/o bells and whistles. Where do you draw the line, this opinion of that opinion, 15 ways to arrive at a single grade, other opinions, all subjective...this sticker, that sticker, graded when...at some point my coin has to stand on its own merits I went through all the trouble to find and understand. I see to that when I buy and leave the rest for someone else to worry about. It all changes anyway - all of it - guarantees, color, adjectives, opinions, but the coins, on the whole, remain unchanged. I'll do what I can to help a sale, but at some point this "buy without sell with thing' will eat itself, even with resub/crax etc. or whatever these things have done in the past. Is there going back from CAC? Does it matter? Really? My own opinion is nothing to JA or any of you, but it in there. I am financing this thing...

Eric

BAJJERFAN · October 15, 2013 7:56AM

<< 

<< 

<< Steveben
Nice and very quick facts and figures

Look like CAC is worth the $12.50 + s/h >>

Unless you get unlucky. >>

if you submit through a dealer then you have to pay wether it stickers or not...if you submit as a collector, they only charge you if the coin stickers!

Erik >>

Rates for Advanced Collector Members have switched to Dealer Pricing as of January 1, 2013.

magikbilly · October 15, 2013 7:57AM

What else am I wearing?

Eric

coinbuf · October 15, 2013 7:59AM

<< 

<< And to the point earlier? I have never heard of an instance where having a sticker has hurt a coin's value or quality perception.

I would think that a great looking coin in a rattler holder would actually lose value with just a green sticker. The potential windfall of an unreviewed lock upgrade without the sticker might be counteracted by the green. >>

I agree. I have coins that would probably sell for more without the green sticker as upgrades would be assumed by most.

But in the setting of a common date, recently graded toned Morgan, a sticker would probably improve liquidity. >>

Well that sort of contradicts your statement on the ethics thread: "I assume that every coin that I consider purchasing has undergone every conceivable effort to maximize its value with slabs and stickers". So following your earlier statement if you were to sell those without a green bean would you not expect your potential buyers to assume that these were the CAC rejects?? Certainly s4ny would.

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD · October 15, 2013 8:08AM

<< Rates for Advanced Collector Members have switched to Dealer Pricing as of January 1, 2013. >>

but the advanced collector only pays if the coin stickers...correct?

Erik

TwoSides2aCoin · October 15, 2013 8:11AM

A classic car doesn't need wax, but it shines better under lights and duress , in the event people just can't tell what they're buying. And rightly so that integrity is there, so there is support, industry wide. Isn't that a better world with fewer hurdles , essentially ?

RYK · October 15, 2013 8:11AM

<< 

<< 

<< And to the point earlier? I have never heard of an instance where having a sticker has hurt a coin's value or quality perception.

I would think that a great looking coin in a rattler holder would actually lose value with just a green sticker. The potential windfall of an unreviewed lock upgrade without the sticker might be counteracted by the green. >>

I agree. I have coins that would probably sell for more without the green sticker as upgrades would be assumed by most.

But in the setting of a common date, recently graded toned Morgan, a sticker would probably improve liquidity. >>

Well that sort of contradicts your statement on the ethics thread: "I assume that every coin that I consider purchasing has undergone every conceivable effort to maximize its value with slabs and stickers". So following your earlier statement if you were to sell those without a green bean would you not expect your potential buyers to assume that these were the CAC rejects?? Certainly s4ny would. >>

Maybe, maybe not. Everyone operates with different levels of experience, knowledge, assumptions, and objectives.

ColonelJessup · October 15, 2013 8:39AM

<< And to the point earlier? I have never heard of an instance where having a sticker has hurt a coin's value or quality perception.

I would think that a great looking coin in a rattler holder would actually lose value with just a green sticker. The potential windfall of an unreviewed lock upgrade without the sticker might be counteracted by the green. >>

While I mostly agree, there are, of course, exceptions.

2010 I bought a 1916-D 10c in a rattler AU50 green CAC. I sold the very wholesome and original FB coin to a CAC owner. A collector. Not JA, TDN, Laurie or whoever, though a few know him. We both agreed the coin was an AU57. He paid me $10,000. I think that's 60 money.

But, as TDN notes, the potential crackout/upgrade premium hype for a rattler can easily be held down by a greenie.

BAJJERFAN · October 15, 2013 9:38AM

<< 

<< Rates for Advanced Collector Members have switched to Dealer Pricing as of January 1, 2013. >>

but the advanced collector only pays if the coin stickers...correct?

Erik >>

No, not any more. On my last submission I was not credited for the ones that didn't pass; at least I don't think I was.

coinguy1989 · October 15, 2013 10:01AM

<< 

<< 

if you submit through a dealer then you have to pay wether it stickers or not...if you submit as a collector, they only charge you if the coin stickers!

Erik >>

Rates for Advanced Collector Members have switched to Dealer Pricing as of January 1, 2013. >>

The pricing is the same except that collectors do not pay for review of coins that fail to sticker. Rather, they will issue an account credit. I know from experience having submitted for myself and a couple of forum members that this is the case.

magikbilly · October 15, 2013 10:09AM

...and if you disagree with a sticker...or opinion...or label...don't buy.

Eric

BAJJERFAN · October 15, 2013 10:22AM

<< 

<< 

<< Rates for Advanced Collector Members have switched to Dealer Pricing as of January 1, 2013. >>

but the advanced collector only pays if the coin stickers...correct?

Erik >>

No, not any more. On my last submission I was not credited for the ones that didn't pass; at least I don't think I was. >>

I couldn't find my last submission invoice to verify if it was true or not.

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD · October 15, 2013 10:43AM

I called and spoke with them today and they do not charge for coins that do not sticker (C-coins), if sent in by an advanced collector. FWIW

Erik

DIMEMAN · October 15, 2013 10:59AM

>>>.and if you disagree with a sticker...or opinion...or label...don't buy.<<<

Good advice.

I take it even further and just buy coins I need and like and I am willing to pay the asking price. I doesn't matter what holder it is in or raw and definitely doesn't matter about sticker because they com off when I send the coin in for attribution.

It does save me money if the coin is already in PCGS......then all that needs is a reholder.

magikbilly · October 15, 2013 12:12PM

<< And to the point earlier? I have never heard of an instance where having a sticker has hurt a coin's value or quality perception.

I would think that a great looking coin in a rattler holder would actually lose value with just a green sticker. The potential windfall of an unreviewed lock upgrade without the sticker might be counteracted by the green. >>

This reminds a bit of the dateless MM-less 66 Saint with or without CAC from last week. Same neck of the woods.

Eric

breakdown · October 15, 2013 1:17PM

<< And to the point earlier? I have never heard of an instance where having a sticker has hurt a coin's value or quality perception.
I would think that a great looking coin in a rattler holder would actually lose value with just a green sticker. The potential windfall of an unreviewed lock upgrade without the sticker might be counteracted by the green. >>

Gold stickers need to be put in a little context. If you look at Walkers, there are 3 of any grade dated in the teens and twenties, a single 16-D and two 29-D's, none near top pop for the date. If you hope for or expect a gold sticker in an early Walker, good luck. My point -- in a high grade early Walker, the best you can hope for is a green sticker. There are similar examples in other series.

leothelyon · October 15, 2013 7:03PM

<< Not my area, but judging by prices realized it seems to be all the rage.

I guess it offers buyers an additional assurance the toning is original and the grade is not inflated because of the toning (as often seems to be the case). >>

But a gold bean would indicate the grade needs to be inflated due to the toning??

jmj3esq · October 15, 2013 10:57PM

I don't think its important at all. You already have the opinion as to grade from the top grading company. Your opinion is all else that matters.

BAJJERFAN · October 16, 2013 12:36AM

Like grading and slabbing and other things, the CAC sticker is more important to some folks than others. If it aint for you that's ok; if it is for you that's ok as well. To each their own.

roadrunner · October 16, 2013 5:16AM

The sticker (or lack of one) means a whole lot if you own the coin and have to sell it. Probably 60% of all coins sold by all dealers prior to 2009 wouldn't meet CAC standards today.
That includes ones in top tier holders too. And if you're looking at specific areas of the market such as MS65-66 Saints, the rate is as low as 5-20%. It doesn't mean a whole
lot for generic MS61-66 Morgans or for monster Morgan toners that pretty much operate independent of stickers. But, for MS Morgans worth $500-$1000 or more I think it's pretty important.
Must be important since one of our favorite forum dealers who provides monthly market updates basically only sells stickered coins....Morgans included.

The "downside" to having a sticker on the OP's suggested coin is that a lot more people will be "bothering" you about it's availability for sale. Try that with unstickered non-PCGS coins.

PTVETTER · October 16, 2013 7:36AM

Bottom line looks like a CAC sticker does not lower the price, but in some cases it increases the value!

The only exception is a rattler holder that many believe will upgrade needs no sticker.

And some may feel better having a sticker on a toned coin to be assured that is it NT not AT.

How important is having a CAC sticker on

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