Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Also won the PNG's Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
<< <i>And since when o I have o keep receipts from last year ( personally) Different if a business for resale >>
Because it,s either an investment asset or a business asset in the eyes of the IRS. If you want to deduct your cost ten years down the road when you pay the required capital gains, you will need the purchase receipt to prove initial cost.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<< <i>JMHO, why would you come to a coin forum for legal advice?? would you go see an attorney for advice on a coin purchase?? while you might get sound advice here, I suggest that if it is a concern you should probably consult an attorney and keep the coin questions here. >>
Why not? There are any number of attorneys here and all of them should be able to give a factual answer. There are a number of points brought up here that one should ponder before consulting an attorney so that one can ask that attorney the proper questions when the time comes. I'd have the attorney do a little snooping to see what's going on before I produced anything.
I take it that you would never hire a forum member who is a lawyer because they don't know much. Why would you have any more trust in an answer given in their office, than the same answer proffered here?
Well... ...I'm sure it needs some vodka ...and lemons ...and coconut ...triple sec ...and a blender. >>
No lemons. Will lime work?
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Also won the PNG's Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
Well... ...I'm sure it needs some vodka ...and lemons ...and coconut ...triple sec ...and a blender. >>
No lemons. Will lime work? >>
Sure! Just add a pinch of orange juice to soften it.
I like to soak the receipts in acetone for a while which will remove a lot of the ink and solubles in the paper when using limes which also helps soften the flavor.
<< <i>Without seeing the subpoena, but based on your description of the litigation and issuing court; it is almost a certainty that the legality and enforceability of your subpoena is governed by Rule 45 Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. I does not sound as if service has been properly made. Typically service is made by a process server (the kind that knocks on your door looking for your) and proof of proper service of the subpoena must generally be filed with the court before the target can be subject to contempt. >>
I agree with this, and unless they secure personal jurisdiction over you with proper service, you cannot be held in contempt of court. In theory, you could deny ever receiving it, but this is dishonest and I would discourage this. With this said, I do not see any benefit in playing games with them over the subpoena. From what you have stated, it sounds like a mere subpoena duces tecum (for documents) and does not require an actual appearance unless the subpoena requests your appearance to authenticate the receipts. With regards to breach of contract suit, all federal district courts (to my knowledge) utilize PACER and you can access the complaint online to see the precise relief sought and the allegations contained therein. If you are unable to do this yourself, you could go to a local university library or a public library, and I am sure that they would help you out. The cost is trivial and is $0.10 per page and various jurisdictions have caps on the most that a document will cost (in my jurisdiction it is a couple of bucks or so). It is a cheap way to find out what is going on.
Although this issue is filed in federal court, presumably the court has jurisdiction solely because of the diversity of citizenship of the plaintiff and the defendant dealer. If this is the case, then the claim is based on state law. (It is pretty much universal that in a situation like this, the state where the transaction was executed provides the forum for determining the governing law in accordance with well established conflict/choice of law principles). As such, it appears to be a California case. I urge you to contact a California lawyer. With this said, many states (including mine), would probably consider you a bona fide purchaser for value even if the consignor was not paid (assuming that the speculation of other posters is correct) since you did not know nor should you have reasonably suspected a problem, and you purchased from a merchant. This would mean that your title to the coin would be recognized/secure, and there would likely be no real consequence for you in complying with the subpoena. Again, this is an area of state law. Your state law may differ from my jurisdiction (and the law that governs/I am trained in). If you do not comply with the subpoena, I'm sure that they will make sure that you are properly served so that they would have contempt power over you in the future. In my view, you probably won't do yourself any favors by refusing to comply. If I was counsel for the plaintiff and you refused to comply, I would grow suspicious and would contemplate amending my complaint to add you as a third party defendant.
Disclaimer: I am not a California attorney and no warranties, express or implied, is made to the content contained above. Nothing in this post should be construed as legal advice. You are advised to consult with a competent attorney admitted to the bar of the jurisdiction/venue in which this case will be heard.
KEY to the continued relivance of this thread is the reappearance of the OP, RAYS. It is unfortunate that the coin forum was down for two days during this discusion, but it is up to RAYS to bring further clarity to the issue. Steve
I have read online the preliminary injunction granted by the court (this seems to be the first document available, I can't find the original complaint). None of the documents online related to the action say who the defendant's attorney is, but I am going to find out who they are and call them to see what's up.
<< <i>I love these forums, but I would not seek legal or medical advice here.
Drink mixes, maybe. >>
Also, has anyone ever sought medical advice here? >>
The old open forum was a great place to give or recieve medical opinion. Of course a few participants were turning blue and floating to the top of the bowl.
It just goes to prove you get what you pay for... ...smoetimes.
We had a few real doctors as well as several who played one on TV.
<< <i>I have read online the preliminary injunction granted by the court (this seems to be the first document available, I can't find the original complaint). None of the documents online related to the action say who the defendant's attorney is, but I am going to find out who they are and call them to see what's up. >>
<< <i>I received a subpoena from the US District Court by mail today, asking me to provide copies of receipts for two coin purchases last year from a dealer. Apparently, the dealer is being sued over breach of a consignment contract. The lawsuit is filed in another state. Must/should I comply? >>
Mountains from molehills. They're after him, not you-otherwise you'd be named as a defendant. They just want to establish whether or not the prices the dealer received minus commission were consistent with what the consignor was paid. You are undoubtedly one of many who have received this same routine subpoena. For your own peace of mind you could spend some money to consult with an attorney about this if you wish... but in the end he's going to tell you to just send copies of the receipts and be done with it. Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be. It's highly doubtful you'll hear anything else after that unless you're asked for an affadavit or recorded statement over the phone affirming that you indeed bought said items for $x amount from him.
In short, you aren't on their radar screen here; don't do something silly that places you on it.
Lawyers and their staff talk to non parties (what OP is) quite frequently about pending subpoenas and how to comply with them. They don't divulge strategic or confidential information obtained from or about their client, but there is no prohibition against talking to prospective witnesses or records custodians about what their testimony would be or what documents they may have that are relevant to the dispute between the parties. It's what good trial lawyers spend a great deal of their time doing.
Send off a copy of the receipts and end this, sheesh. >>
Sounds simple, but if there was any possibility of a clawback, I'd think I'd want to know that. Also nosing around suggests that you are likely still in possession of the coins and that you received said subpoena. If they are still in any registry sets, the records would probably show if/when they were removed. I think I'd at least call [or have someone else call] the dealer and ask what is going on.
in california u must be personally served a subpeona by a registered process server, and they must file a proof of service with the court signed with their license number on it for it to be valid...
<< <i>in california u must be personally served a subpeona by a registered process server, and they must file a proof of service with the court signed with their license number on it for it to be valid... >>
Sounds like they sent out 100 hoping to get 50 back. Perhaps if they don't get enough "voluntary" responses, they'll send out more formal ones.
<< <i>in california u must be personally served a subpeona by a registered process server, and they must file a proof of service with the court signed with their license number on it for it to be valid... >>
Sounds like they sent out 100 hoping to get 50 back. Perhaps if they don't get enough "voluntary" responses, they'll send out more formal ones. >>
costs alot more for personal service than whatever change they paid for mail...
I think this post shows that there is proof of service by his own admission. The prosecutors where I work dig deep when it comes to these things. I would be very careful. He has been served, period. I would do as ordered.
I talked to the defendant's atty he said to send the documents so I did. Its too bad when misunderstandings between previously amicable parties devolve into a lawsuit.
<< <i>in california u must be personally served a subpeona by a registered process server, and they must file a proof of service with the court signed with their license number on it for it to be valid... >>
Sounds like they sent out 100 hoping to get 50 back. Perhaps if they don't get enough "voluntary" responses, they'll send out more formal ones. >>
costs alot more for personal service than whatever change they paid for mail... >>
Which is why they likely decided to test the waters by just mailing them.
<< <i>I talked to the defendant's atty he said to send the documents so I did. Its too bad when misunderstandings between previously amicable parties devolve into a lawsuit. >>
Hurray! I was both right and horribly, horribly wrong. The good news is everyone can call me by my new online identity: Pepe Sly.
Comments
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
<< <i>Quick...eat the receipts! >>
Got a recipe?
Different if a business for resale
<< <i>And since when o I have o keep receipts from last year ( personally)
Different if a business for resale >>
Because it,s either an investment asset or a business asset in the eyes of the IRS. If you want to deduct your cost ten years down the road when you pay the required capital gains, you will need the purchase receipt to prove initial cost.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<< <i>Maybe the state is finally trying to cut its budget deficit by sending it first class vice certified. >>
Rob
Successful Trades with: Coincast, MICHAELDIXON
Successful Purchases from: Manorcourtman, Meltdown
<< <i>JMHO, why would you come to a coin forum for legal advice?? would you go see an attorney for advice on a coin purchase?? while you might get sound advice here, I suggest that if it is a concern you should probably consult an attorney and keep the coin questions here. >>
Why not? There are any number of attorneys here and all of them should be able to give a factual answer. There are a number of points brought up here that one should ponder before consulting an attorney so that one can ask that attorney the proper questions when the time comes. I'd have the attorney do a little snooping to see what's going on before I produced anything.
I take it that you would never hire a forum member who is a lawyer because they don't know much. Why would you have any more trust in an answer given in their office, than the same answer proffered here?
Rob
Successful Trades with: Coincast, MICHAELDIXON
Successful Purchases from: Manorcourtman, Meltdown
<< <i>
<< <i>Quick...eat the receipts! >>
Got a recipe? >>
Well... ...I'm sure it needs some vodka ...and lemons ...and coconut ...triple sec ...and a blender.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Quick...eat the receipts! >>
Got a recipe? >>
Well... ...I'm sure it needs some vodka ...and lemons ...and coconut ...triple sec ...and a blender. >>
No lemons. Will lime work?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Quick...eat the receipts! >>
Got a recipe? >>
Well... ...I'm sure it needs some vodka ...and lemons ...and coconut ...triple sec ...and a blender. >>
No lemons. Will lime work? >>
Sure! Just add a pinch of orange juice to soften it.
I like to soak the receipts in acetone for a while which will remove a lot of the ink and solubles in the paper when using limes which also helps soften the flavor.
<< <i>Without seeing the subpoena, but based on your description of the litigation and issuing court; it is almost a certainty that the legality and enforceability of your subpoena is governed by Rule 45 Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. I does not sound as if service has been properly made. Typically service is made by a process server (the kind that knocks on your door looking for your) and proof of proper service of the subpoena must generally be filed with the court before the target can be subject to contempt. >>
I agree with this, and unless they secure personal jurisdiction over you with proper service, you cannot be held in contempt of court. In theory, you could deny ever receiving it, but this is dishonest and I would discourage this. With this said, I do not see any benefit in playing games with them over the subpoena. From what you have stated, it sounds like a mere subpoena duces tecum (for documents) and does not require an actual appearance unless the subpoena requests your appearance to authenticate the receipts. With regards to breach of contract suit, all federal district courts (to my knowledge) utilize PACER and you can access the complaint online to see the precise relief sought and the allegations contained therein. If you are unable to do this yourself, you could go to a local university library or a public library, and I am sure that they would help you out. The cost is trivial and is $0.10 per page and various jurisdictions have caps on the most that a document will cost (in my jurisdiction it is a couple of bucks or so). It is a cheap way to find out what is going on.
Although this issue is filed in federal court, presumably the court has jurisdiction solely because of the diversity of citizenship of the plaintiff and the defendant dealer. If this is the case, then the claim is based on state law. (It is pretty much universal that in a situation like this, the state where the transaction was executed provides the forum for determining the governing law in accordance with well established conflict/choice of law principles). As such, it appears to be a California case. I urge you to contact a California lawyer. With this said, many states (including mine), would probably consider you a bona fide purchaser for value even if the consignor was not paid (assuming that the speculation of other posters is correct) since you did not know nor should you have reasonably suspected a problem, and you purchased from a merchant. This would mean that your title to the coin would be recognized/secure, and there would likely be no real consequence for you in complying with the subpoena. Again, this is an area of state law. Your state law may differ from my jurisdiction (and the law that governs/I am trained in). If you do not comply with the subpoena, I'm sure that they will make sure that you are properly served so that they would have contempt power over you in the future. In my view, you probably won't do yourself any favors by refusing to comply. If I was counsel for the plaintiff and you refused to comply, I would grow suspicious and would contemplate amending my complaint to add you as a third party defendant.
Disclaimer: I am not a California attorney and no warranties, express or implied, is made to the content contained above. Nothing in this post should be construed as legal advice. You are advised to consult with a competent attorney admitted to the bar of the jurisdiction/venue in which this case will be heard.
<< <i>I love these forums, but I would not seek legal or medical advice here.
Drink mixes, maybe. >>
Also, has anyone ever sought medical advice here?
I laud those that took the time to respond respectfully to the OP question,I hope he got some good recommendations...me, I got nuthin.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
"No good deed ever goes unpunished."
<< <i>When in doubt as to your responsibility in any legal matter, consult your attorney. >>
This is the best advice
Whatever you are, be a good one. ---- Abraham Lincoln
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
<< <i>I love these forums, but I would not seek legal or medical advice here.
Drink mixes, maybe. >>
Also, has anyone ever sought medical advice here? >>
The old open forum was a great place to give or recieve medical opinion.
Of course a few participants were turning blue and floating to the top of the bowl.
It just goes to prove you get what you pay for... ...smoetimes.
We had a few real doctors as well as several who played one on TV.
<< <i>I have read online the preliminary injunction granted by the court (this seems to be the first document available, I can't find the original complaint). None of the documents online related to the action say who the defendant's attorney is, but I am going to find out who they are and call them to see what's up. >>
Neither atty can talk to you.
Atty client confidentiality.
<< <i>
<< <i>I love these forums, but I would not seek legal or medical advice here.
Drink mixes, maybe. >>
Also, has anyone ever sought medical advice here? >>
We've shared passing kidney stones stories.
<< <i>
Neither atty can talk to you.
Atty client confidentiality. >>
Wrong!
1946-S PCGS MS64 BOOKER T.WASHINGTON 50 CENT
<< <i>I received a subpoena from the US District Court by mail today, asking me to provide copies of receipts for two coin purchases last year from a dealer. Apparently, the dealer is being sued over breach of a consignment contract. The lawsuit is filed in another state.
Must/should I comply? >>
Mountains from molehills. They're after him, not you-otherwise you'd be named as a defendant. They just want to establish whether or not the prices the dealer received minus commission were consistent with what the consignor was paid. You are undoubtedly one of many who have received this same routine subpoena.
For your own peace of mind you could spend some money to consult with an attorney about this if you wish... but in the end he's going to tell you to just send copies of the receipts and be done with it.
Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be. It's highly doubtful you'll hear anything else after that unless you're asked for an affadavit or recorded statement over the phone affirming that you indeed bought said items for $x amount from him.
In short, you aren't on their radar screen here; don't do something silly that places you on it.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
....absolutely, totally, completely 100% WRONG!
Lawyers and their staff talk to non parties (what OP is) quite frequently about pending subpoenas and how to comply with them. They don't divulge strategic or confidential information obtained from or about their client, but there is no prohibition against talking to prospective witnesses or records custodians about what their testimony would be or what documents they may have that are relevant to the dispute between the parties. It's what good trial lawyers spend a great deal of their time doing.
Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum
Send off a copy of the receipts and end this, sheesh.
Free Trial
<< <i>Not sure why this is a big deal.
Send off a copy of the receipts and end this, sheesh. >>
Sounds simple, but if there was any possibility of a clawback, I'd think I'd want to know that. Also nosing around suggests that you are likely still in possession of the coins and that you received said subpoena. If they are still in any registry sets, the records would probably show if/when they were removed. I think I'd at least call [or have someone else call] the dealer and ask what is going on.
and they must file a proof of service with the court signed with their license number on it for it to be valid...
<< <i>in california u must be personally served a subpeona by a registered process server,
and they must file a proof of service with the court signed with their license number on it for it to be valid... >>
Sounds like they sent out 100 hoping to get 50 back. Perhaps if they don't get enough "voluntary" responses, they'll send out more formal ones.
<< <i>
<< <i>in california u must be personally served a subpeona by a registered process server,
and they must file a proof of service with the court signed with their license number on it for it to be valid... >>
Sounds like they sent out 100 hoping to get 50 back. Perhaps if they don't get enough "voluntary" responses, they'll send out more formal ones. >>
costs alot more for personal service than whatever change they paid for mail...
I just want to know what the scammer did? Nice to see these guys get caught, after ripping off the little old ladies once in a while!
Its too bad when misunderstandings between previously amicable parties devolve into a lawsuit.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>in california u must be personally served a subpeona by a registered process server,
and they must file a proof of service with the court signed with their license number on it for it to be valid... >>
Sounds like they sent out 100 hoping to get 50 back. Perhaps if they don't get enough "voluntary" responses, they'll send out more formal ones. >>
costs alot more for personal service than whatever change they paid for mail... >>
Which is why they likely decided to test the waters by just mailing them.
<< <i>I talked to the defendant's atty he said to send the documents so I did.
Its too bad when misunderstandings between previously amicable parties devolve into a lawsuit. >>
Hurray! I was both right and horribly, horribly wrong. The good news is everyone can call me by my new online identity: Pepe Sly.