1897 S Barber Half AU58 or MS66

EastonCollection · July 6, 2013 6:29AM

Its too hot for tennis and golf in NY so I was going through PCGS price guide - and I noticed the following 1897S Barber Half price in AU58 is $14,850. WOW! Nice price. Normally, I try to acquire coins in the best grade that I can afford.
In higher grades the price guide for 1897S are as follows - MS62- $3,850, MS63-$4,300, MS64- $5,500, MS65 -$9,000 and last but not least MS66 - $14,950. I get the various reasons why - i.e. everyman set, low pops and auction crazy folks and many AU58s are nicer than many 62 and 63. But IMHO, this is not logically that an AU58 tops ms 64, ms65 and ms66 price guide. I guess buy 63s, 64s and 65s, crack out the coin from the holder and carry it in your pocket for a week and you can make some serious bucks by getting it graded as AU58. Did anyone think down grading a quality coins goes up! Isn't Coin Collecting Fun? PS- this is not for a low ball set and this is a desirable date!

Broadstruck · July 6, 2013 6:35AM

Price seems to have gone down a bit as when member bidask did a thread on this date the price difference between AU58 and MS66 was a mere $300 +/-

B101682 · July 6, 2013 7:21AM

That's because that was the only PCGS AU58 graded example, and it just got graded and sent to Heritage. The bidders went crazy. There is another example that was graded AU58 later. I suspect if it was sold, it would not bring as much!

Walkerguy21D · July 6, 2013 7:30AM

<< I guess buy 63s, 64s and 65s, crack out the coin from the holder and carry it in your pocket for a week and you can make some serious bucks by getting it graded as AU58. >>

Sanity will eventually prevail. Please don't 'rub' scarce, Ch Uncs with the hope of scoring an AU58

roadrunner · July 6, 2013 12:11PM

It's insane. Every fad has its time in the sun.

The value of every MS61 and MS62 just got enhanced as sharp collectors and dealers will try to figure out how to turn them into nice AU58's.
Does this phenomena only occur in Barber coinage or has it spread to other series as well?

Patches · July 6, 2013 12:29PM

<< It's insane. Every fad has its time in the sun.

The value of every MS61 and MS62 just got enhanced as sharp collectors and dealers will try to figure out how to turn them into nice AU58's.
Does this phenomena only occur in Barber coinage or has it spread to other series as well? >>

I'm not so sure a MS60-62 Barber could become an AU58 (a nice one at least)...seems like an AU53 coin in the making rubbing these grades down.

amwldcoin · July 6, 2013 8:07PM

<< 

<< It's insane. Every fad has its time in the sun.

The value of every MS61 and MS62 just got enhanced as sharp collectors and dealers will try to figure out how to turn them into nice AU58's.
Does this phenomena only occur in Barber coinage or has it spread to other series as well? >>

I'm not so sure a MS60-62 Barber could become an AU58 (a nice one at least)...seems like an AU53 coin in the making rubbing these grades down. >>

I agree with this. I think there are 2 types of AU58"s.

A wonderful coin with just a hint of rub that looks like a 63 or better.
or
An Unc coin that has great luster that for some reason or another our host doesn't want to put it in an Unc holder.

I have seen several 55's and 58's that were Unc but had a staplescratch or small deeper scratch.

barberkeys · July 6, 2013 9:40PM

RR - I'd say the AU58 craze applies to more than barbers. The 97-S example was just a perfect storm.

And I'd still rather have a beautiful 58 than a mediocre 63 or 4.

Nickcap · July 7, 2013 12:11AM

I have a few AU58 coins that should be MS Grades. My series is Morgans though.

I resubmitted three hoping to get an AU58+ but they came back 61-63.

I am not big into barber half series, but could the AU58 that went for big money be a Variation that is rare?

In the Morgan series I have seen some VAMs that the highest known is low AU or XF. When an AU58 example first appears the bigger collectors will pay to have a coin that is the highest grade for that particular VAM.

MFH · July 7, 2013 3:07AM

The first 97-S in AU 58 caused such a furor, I knew it would sell off the charts.
The highest circulated POP for years was an AU 55... My old set that I sold 2 yrs
ago only had an AU 53, it was the nicest AU I could find after years of searching.

When the second AU 58 appeared, I knew the price would drop... But it didn't
drop as dramatically as I expected. My current set has a decent example in AU 50
and I like it quite a lot.

If the Everyman sets had never been created, the prices of the 58's and the MS's
would be better aligned ... It is so out of the norm that a 58 out prices a 64-66...
that it could bring up the prices of 55's, which it doesn't. If more collectors ever
decided to jump into Barbers, the prices would sky rocket in almost all grades, as
these coins are truly scarce. The series lags behind the 20th Century favorites, Walkers,
Mercury Dimes and in a lesser sense , the Standing Liberty Quarters.

Although the Barber design was never a contemporary favorite - and still is not a highly
collected coin - it is the most enduring circulated coin and has proven itself to be the work
horse of commerce during its era.

I agree with many of the posts above as well. Knowing me, you then know I digress at times...

SteveDippolito · July 7, 2013 3:36AM

I think there is something fundamentally wrong with the grading system, if a 58 can be more valuable and desirable than a 63.

It stems from fetishizing a lack of wear, to the point that it becomes more important than horrific scratching and bag marks.

A coin that is utterly pristine except for the tiniest bit of rub, in my opinion should be graded as AU-65 or more--as it is, technically it cannot be more than an AU59.99 and would end up in a 58 holder. Of course they might just up and call it MS anyway. Note that I said AU-65, because it's just as undamaged as an MS65, it's just that the damage happens to be wear instead of dings.

Similarly MS should extend down into the 50s for coins that are really beat up but unworn. (Why not if PF can be?). That would allow for coins that have no rub on them but a really nasty scratch to called "Mint State" and you don't have this issue of mint state coins being put in an AU holder--even though it IS uncirculated--just because of a really bad hock on them.

Better yet, simply rename about uncirculated and mint state to something that doesn't imply wear or a lack of it. Wear simply isn't the only way for a coin to degrade from "basal state" (new off the press), but grades 50-70 are named as if it is.

EastonCollection · July 7, 2013 3:36AM

I do remember the 2 1897S AU58 Barbers in auction. They weren't fancy die variety or anything special except an AU58. I am just very surprised that coinfacts doesn't properly reflect the values (based on logic that 64 should be more than 58).
I have been looking for AU example and I know that I will need to crack out a 63 or 64 and rub it a little. Boy that doesn't make sense- I am thinking about waiting a few years when the market makes an AU58 for sale....

Broadstruck · July 7, 2013 3:53AM

I personally don't feel the AU58 that sold at HA is that nice.

This whole AU58ism is a lot like the Tootsie Roll song as many buyers just get fully enamored with the grade on the slab label and don't really care if the coin itself is PQ or POS for the grade.

As I've seen some majorly fugly so called super sliders sell for moon money and I just smh like wth?

bidask · July 7, 2013 4:17AM

I have an ms 66 1897 s barber 50 c and when I sell it I'm not sure what to ask for it.

Pokermandude · July 7, 2013 4:28AM

<< As I've seen some majorly fugly so called super sliders sell for moon money and I just smh like wth? >>

It's due to the "Everyman" AU-58 max grade registry set shenanigans.

DrPete · July 7, 2013 5:12AM

Not only has the 1897-S in AU 58 sold for nearly $15K, look up the price of an 18970-O half inPCGS AU 58, somewhere around $17K. My set has the 97-S in MS 67 and the 97-O in MS 66+ and I paid not that much difference in price compared to the AU 58 examples. I will keep mine. The collectors after the AU 58 examples are in hot competition and it doesn't correlate with other grades and their prices. Supply and demand create this anomaly.

bidask · July 7, 2013 5:26AM

<< Not only has the 1897-S in AU 58 sold for nearly $15K, look up the price of an 18970-O half inPCGS AU 58, somewhere around $17K. My set has the 97-S in MS 67 and the 97-O in MS 66+ and I paid not that much difference in price compared to the AU 58 examples. I will keep mine. The collectors after the AU 58 examples are in hot competition and it doesn't correlate with other grades and their prices. Supply and demand create this anomaly. >>

97 O in 66+

WOW

EastonCollection · July 7, 2013 7:03AM

Supply and demand/Everyman set and all that jazz why the AU58 is mispriced in the price guide. I feel that if someone wishes to pay $15k for an AU58 than that's their right. I really don't know why they would when you can buy a higher graded coin for less (assuming the MS is nicer). I think that PCGS price guide shouldn't just price a coin based on 2 or more folks willing to pay a lot for a coin even though the POP is very low. If I was doing the price guide for pcgs, then I surely wont price a AU58 so much higher than a 62 or 63. To me, it doesn't make too much sense. Hence the reason for commencing this thread.

EastonCollection · July 7, 2013 7:05AM

BTW - Dr Pete - gorgeous barber set - I love them including the 97S and 97O - When I grow up then I would like a set like yours!!! Way to go!

bidask · July 7, 2013 7:25AM

Even though the au 58 sold for that money pcgs should
not have posted that in their price guide.

Analyst · July 10, 2013 9:31AM

Roadrunner: <<It's insane. Every fad has its time in the sun.>>

Perhaps it is true that I have not read this thread carefully enough to ascertain what Roadrunner has determined to be insane. Maybe AU-58 to MS-63 grade, better date Barber Halves are not the best values in the series. Personally, I think that the prices paid for accurately graded, MS-66 and higher grade Barber Halves are often sensible, as many such coins are just amazing, especially some of the Barber Halves that were previously in the Duckor, Dale Friend, Hugon, Emery-Nichols or Eliasberg Collections.

The good news for people who cannot afford the better dates in very high grades is that, in VG-10 to VF-20 grades, all the keys and semi-keys can be obtained for less than $500 each. Indeed, a whole set of nice, naturally toned PCGS graded, Barber Halves can be assembled for less than $500 per coin, with almost every coin grading Fine-12 or higher and most grading EF-40 or higher!

Classic U.S. cons for less than $500 each, Part 6: Barber Halves

Easton: BTW - Dr Pete - gorgeous barber set - I love them including the 97S and 97O ... I would like a set like yours!!! Way to go!

I agree. I have seen many of the coins in Dr. Pete's set, before he owned them. Dr. Pete's set is phenomenal. I could spend many hours viewing his coins without being bored for a second.

All-Time Greatest Collection of Barber Half Dollars, Part 2

All-Time Greatest Collection of Barber Half Dollars, Part 1 – 08/03/10

roadrunner · July 10, 2013 1:25PM

$14,850 for a 97-s AU58 Barber half is what I considered insane. $15,000 for a MS66 may be a good value depending on the coin's quality.
I rarely see AU58 Barber halves that I would consider AU64, AU65 or AU66. I don't think I've ever seen one though. On the flip side, I've seen a number
of early seated halves and bust halves that I would consider AU64's to AU65's....and in some cases they were in MS63 to MS65 holders.

Nickcap · July 10, 2013 1:43PM

To each their own when collecting.

I have Morgan and Peace everyman sets. While some think they are a waste, I perfer coins that have been circulated. Personally I like the challenge to find the best circulated coin in a PCGS holder. I have also paid 62-63 money for coins to fill my set. The real challenge is finding a coin in AU58+.

As long as the collectors are happy and can spend the money, I don't see a problem with the price.

1897 S Barber Half AU58 or MS66

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