I do not see why you have to hire an attorney. The evidence against the crooked dealer along with evidence against the landscapers is all there. I'd talk to the areas prosecuting attorney and possibly the state attorney general. Law enforcement dropped the ball, I'd want them to pick it back up. It sounds like a couple of them need a reason to do their jobs.
Remember, I'm pullen for ya; we're all in this together.---Red Green---
<< <i>Let me get this right You purchased coins and you own them and they were taken without permisson. (stolen) Those who took the coins sold them to a dealer who paid for them. He got the proper ID and turned that information over to the police.
Now the hard point ... Do you want the dealer to hand over the coins that He owns for FREE.??? That is like trying to steal them back.
You should have done this offer to pay what he paid for the coins and turn it in to you insurance company. >>
Wrong!
The dealer who purchased the stolen coins is not the owner of the coins. He does not have title to them. It does not matter how many times the coins have been sold/purchased after being stolen, title is always vested with the person from whom they were stolen.
<< <i>I do not see why you have to hire an attorney. The evidence against the crooked dealer along with evidence against the landscapers is all there. I'd talk to the areas prosecuting attorney and possibly the state attorney general. Law enforcement dropped the ball, I'd want them to pick it back up. It sounds like a couple of them need a reason to do their jobs. >>
Unfortunately I am finding with law enforcement that they have so many problems that non-violent crimes get real low priority unless the victim is well known. On Monday I had my wife take my car when she went to work so I could work on her car and rotate the tires, change oil etc. Later that morning I get a call that my car was hit in the parking lot of her company. The person that hit my car left the scene, but someone else witnessed the accident and informed the office and the police were called. The police found the person that hit my car, one of my wife's employees! But because the accident happened on private property there is nothing we can do according to the police. About all my wife can do for recourse is to make the employee miserable enough with "other tasks as assigned" that they quit their job. Which according to my wife would be a good thing for her company.
Tir nam beann, nan gleann, s'nan gaisgeach ~ Saorstat Albanaich a nis!
bajjerfan. Did the dealer have ANY knowledge of the stolen coins in advance? I understand the landscapers taking the coins, but what did the dealer do wrong He had nothing to do with the stealing of the coins. the dots connect the landscrapers to the coins but not the dealer.
Think about this.. I have NO coins. I claim someone took a complete set of morgans my grandfather left me. Knowing the coins shop just purchased a set. since I am claiming they were given to me I have No paperwork. Should the coin shop just turn over the morgan set to me.? Would this scam work and why not?
Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211
<< <i>bajjerfan. Did the dealer have ANY knowledge of the stolen coins in advance? I understand the landscapers taking the coins, but what did the dealer do wrong He had nothing to do with the stealing of the coins. the dots connect the landscrapers to the coins but not the dealer.
Think about this.. I have NO coins. I claim someone took a complete set of morgans my grandfather left me. Knowing the coins shop just purchased a set. since I am claiming they were given to me I have No paperwork. Should the coin shop just turn over the morgan set to me.? Would this scam work and why not? >>
The dealer did wrong by commiting an act of conversion. The dealer who bought the stolen goods converted the property of someone else, thereby depriving the rightful owner of its use and enjoyment.
If someone knocked on your door and said "you're wearing my shirt, give it back." How would you go about proving that you owned the shirt you were wearing?
One is not guilty until proven in a court of law..
Do you prejudge everyone...
If one is a different color are they less than you!
You sir are all wrong by judging other.
Ever hear "don't judge a book by its cover"
I can mail out a package faster than one can get a court order and I don't have to report raw coins.
And yes I know a landscaper that collect better coins. He works hard for his money and enjoys his collection of better date gold coins. >>
His coins were missing. There was video evidence of the same group of people who were at his residence also visiting a coin shop and selling coins. Sounds like more than coincidence to me. I bet what really happened is that those coins walked off of their own free will and just happened to run into those landscape helpers. >>
LOL. He works hard for the money....
I don't know how it works in every other state in the union, but in IL if you as a dealer buy stolen coins, whether or not you know they're stolen, if they prove to be you'll need to turn over said stolen property to the proper authorities and you will be SOL, your mistake for buying them. Perhaps other established dealers can comment, but that's why one scrupulously honest dealer I know covers his butt, and needs proper ID, etc. when buying of any given amount of stuff, much less what would amount to a significant holding. He also has grown quite skilled over the years at judging whether some potential seller and his pieces are a "mismatch", shall we say. LOL
I really like how the usual mob mentality has turned the DEALER into the scumbag rather than the actual thieves...
And for doing what, exactly? His job?
He's there to buy and sell coins. He doesn't have a magical mind reading helmet that tells him whether something's stolen or not.
Not all crooks come in dressed like gangsters, and despite good faith efforts to "read" would-be sellers, sometimes you miss one.
As to his having sold the stuff... if some of the buyers paid cash there's no record of who bought what, plus some buyers aren't overly chatty with their personal info by design-you know, identity theft and all... so although some stuff could potentially be tracked (things bought via check, charge perhaps), unless he knows the buyer personally it would be impossible to track the sold for cash items. That doesn't make the dealer a "fence" or a "slime", that makes him like every other business owner that doesn't have an identic memory. And as a reward for being honest and returning the items he still has, he gets to lose both the items and his money.... and some here inexplicably think that somehow the dealer DESERVES to have that happen to him? Really? That's no different than if you'd said that OP deserved to get robbed.
I sympathize with OP; both my house and our business have been burglarized. It sucks. Bad. You feel personally violated, and you want to retaliate. But the dealer's not the bad guy; it's the little scumbags who stole from you. If anything, the dealer's a secondary victim, as his money is essentially stolen as well. (Now if the dealer were a true "fence" and complicit in the theft, that would be different. But that's not what we're talking about here, and is not the case 99.99% of the time.)
Also, as an aside-all the armchair lawyers out there spouting off about who holds title to what need to realize that the laws vary from state to state, sometimes county to county, and even between municipalities in some instances. I don't know what the law is in OP's jurisdiction, but here we have to hold the items 7 days and log the purchase into an online database. Once 7 days is up and nothing's reported stolen, we own them. If something comes up after that... if we still have the item we return it and eat the loss, as the thieves (you know, the guys who actually ARE the "slime") don't have a pot to whiz in or a window to throw it out of, so there's seldom if ever any restitution actually paid. If the time frame is up and the item's sold, it's up to the victim to seek restitution from the thieves for anything unrecovered.
Just my humble views on this situation, from a "slimy" dealer's point of view.
<< <i>I really like how the usual mob mentality has turned the DEALER into the scumbag rather than the actual thieves...
And for doing what, exactly? His job?
He's there to buy and sell coins. He doesn't have a magical mind reading helmet that tells him whether something's stolen or not.
Not all crooks come in dressed like gangsters, and despite good faith efforts to "read" would-be sellers, sometimes you miss one.
As to his having sold the stuff... if some of the buyers paid cash there's no record of who bought what, plus some buyers aren't overly chatty with their personal info by design-you know, identity theft and all... so although some stuff could potentially be tracked (things bought via check, charge perhaps), unless he knows the buyer personally it would be impossible to track the sold for cash items. That doesn't make the dealer a "fence" or a "slime", that makes him like every other business owner that doesn't have an identic memory. And as a reward for being honest and returning the items he still has, he gets to lose both the items and his money.... and some here inexplicably think that somehow the dealer DESERVES to have that happen to him? Really? That's no different than if you'd said that OP deserved to get robbed.
I sympathize with OP; both my house and our business have been burglarized. It sucks. Bad. You feel personally violated, and you want to retaliate. But the dealer's not the bad guy; it's the little scumbags who stole from you. If anything, the dealer's a secondary victim, as his money is essentially stolen as well. (Now if the dealer were a true "fence" and complicit in the theft, that would be different. But that's not what we're talking about here, and is not the case 99.99% of the time.)
Also, as an aside-all the armchair lawyers out there spouting off about who holds title to what need to realize that the laws vary from state to state, sometimes county to county, and even between municipalities in some instances. I don't know what the law is in OP's jurisdiction, but here we have to hold the items 7 days and log the purchase into an online database. Once 7 days is up and nothing's reported stolen, we own them. If something comes up after that... if we still have the item we return it and eat the loss, as the thieves (you know, the guys who actually ARE the "slime") don't have a pot to whiz in or a window to throw it out of, so there's seldom if ever any restitution actually paid. If the time frame is up and the item's sold, it's up to the victim to seek restitution from the thieves for anything unrecovered.
Just my humble views on this situation, from a "slimy" dealer's point of view. >>
Hopefully you won't get any splinters from that chip on your shoulder.
<< <i>I really like how the usual mob mentality has turned the DEALER into the scumbag rather than the actual thieves...
And for doing what, exactly? His job?
He's there to buy and sell coins. He doesn't have a magical mind reading helmet that tells him whether something's stolen or not.
Not all crooks come in dressed like gangsters, and despite good faith efforts to "read" would-be sellers, sometimes you miss one.
As to his having sold the stuff... if some of the buyers paid cash there's no record of who bought what, plus some buyers aren't overly chatty with their personal info by design-you know, identity theft and all... so although some stuff could potentially be tracked (things bought via check, charge perhaps), unless he knows the buyer personally it would be impossible to track the sold for cash items. That doesn't make the dealer a "fence" or a "slime", that makes him like every other business owner that doesn't have an identic memory. And as a reward for being honest and returning the items he still has, he gets to lose both the items and his money.... and some here inexplicably think that somehow the dealer DESERVES to have that happen to him? Really? That's no different than if you'd said that OP deserved to get robbed.
I sympathize with OP; both my house and our business have been burglarized. It sucks. Bad. You feel personally violated, and you want to retaliate. But the dealer's not the bad guy; it's the little scumbags who stole from you. If anything, the dealer's a secondary victim, as his money is essentially stolen as well. (Now if the dealer were a true "fence" and complicit in the theft, that would be different. But that's not what we're talking about here, and is not the case 99.99% of the time.)
Also, as an aside-all the armchair lawyers out there spouting off about who holds title to what need to realize that the laws vary from state to state, sometimes county to county, and even between municipalities in some instances. I don't know what the law is in OP's jurisdiction, but here we have to hold the items 7 days and log the purchase into an online database. Once 7 days is up and nothing's reported stolen, we own them. If something comes up after that... if we still have the item we return it and eat the loss, as the thieves (you know, the guys who actually ARE the "slime") don't have a pot to whiz in or a window to throw it out of, so there's seldom if ever any restitution actually paid. If the time frame is up and the item's sold, it's up to the victim to seek restitution from the thieves for anything unrecovered.
Just my humble views on this situation, from a "slimy" dealer's point of view. >>
Hopefully you won't get any splinters from that chip on your shoulder. >>
No more than those with the perpetual sticks up their posteriors concerning coin dealers.
<< <i>Let me get this right You purchased coins and you own them and they were taken without permisson. (stolen) Those who took the coins sold them to a dealer who paid for them. He got the proper ID and turned that information over to the police.
Now the hard point ... Do you want the dealer to hand over the coins that He owns for FREE.??? That is like trying to steal them back.
You should have done this offer to pay what he paid for the coins and turn it in to you insurance company. >>
I hope you are kidding. They have a word for this. Ransom. You do not have title regardless how much you pay for something if it is stolen.
MLAeBayNumismatics: "The greatest hobby in the world!"
<< <i>I really like how the usual mob mentality has turned the DEALER into the scumbag rather than the actual thieves...
And for doing what, exactly? His job?
He's there to buy and sell coins. He doesn't have a magical mind reading helmet that tells him whether something's stolen or not.
Not all crooks come in dressed like gangsters, and despite good faith efforts to "read" would-be sellers, sometimes you miss one.
As to his having sold the stuff... if some of the buyers paid cash there's no record of who bought what, plus some buyers aren't overly chatty with their personal info by design-you know, identity theft and all... so although some stuff could potentially be tracked (things bought via check, charge perhaps), unless he knows the buyer personally it would be impossible to track the sold for cash items. That doesn't make the dealer a "fence" or a "slime", that makes him like every other business owner that doesn't have an identic memory. And as a reward for being honest and returning the items he still has, he gets to lose both the items and his money.... and some here inexplicably think that somehow the dealer DESERVES to have that happen to him? Really? That's no different than if you'd said that OP deserved to get robbed.
I sympathize with OP; both my house and our business have been burglarized. It sucks. Bad. You feel personally violated, and you want to retaliate. But the dealer's not the bad guy; it's the little scumbags who stole from you. If anything, the dealer's a secondary victim, as his money is essentially stolen as well. (Now if the dealer were a true "fence" and complicit in the theft, that would be different. But that's not what we're talking about here, and is not the case 99.99% of the time.)
Also, as an aside-all the armchair lawyers out there spouting off about who holds title to what need to realize that the laws vary from state to state, sometimes county to county, and even between municipalities in some instances. I don't know what the law is in OP's jurisdiction, but here we have to hold the items 7 days and log the purchase into an online database. Once 7 days is up and nothing's reported stolen, we own them. If something comes up after that... if we still have the item we return it and eat the loss, as the thieves (you know, the guys who actually ARE the "slime") don't have a pot to whiz in or a window to throw it out of, so there's seldom if ever any restitution actually paid. If the time frame is up and the item's sold, it's up to the victim to seek restitution from the thieves for anything unrecovered.
Just my humble views on this situation, from a "slimy" dealer's point of view. >>
After the complaint was made and the thieves admitted to stealing the coins and selling them to a specific dealer [with video evidence to confirm] the dealer was hostile and uncooperative in helping the OP to try and recover his coins. While he may not have been a thief, his action/s put him in the scummy POS category for me. When a group of guys walk in to your store with a bunch of uncommon coins, it shouldn't take much thinking to figure that they were obtained dishonestly. All he will get from the thieves is maybe the satisfaction of getting a little time, if that. Hopefully, the insurance company will make him whole monetarily.
i had a very interesting conversation with a dealer in nj recently. he holds purchases for up to 10 days before offering them for sale. he takes an id and copy of all goods purchased from each individual. cops check the records once per week against stolen property claims. in our state, cops have the right to confiscate if goods from dealer if they have been reported as stolen. the dealer then has to pursue the person that sold to him.
this dealer told me about how he has learned to 'read' who he purchases from. if anything seems less than up and up, he just lets them passby. doesnt want to get involved. not worth the risk. it was very interesting. it added an extra layer of risk that i had no idea existed for dealers. the time of holding requirements. . yuck
<< <i>I really like how the usual mob mentality has turned the DEALER into the scumbag rather than the actual thieves...
And for doing what, exactly? His job?
He's there to buy and sell coins. He doesn't have a magical mind reading helmet that tells him whether something's stolen or not.
Not all crooks come in dressed like gangsters, and despite good faith efforts to "read" would-be sellers, sometimes you miss one.
As to his having sold the stuff... if some of the buyers paid cash there's no record of who bought what, plus some buyers aren't overly chatty with their personal info by design-you know, identity theft and all... so although some stuff could potentially be tracked (things bought via check, charge perhaps), unless he knows the buyer personally it would be impossible to track the sold for cash items. That doesn't make the dealer a "fence" or a "slime", that makes him like every other business owner that doesn't have an identic memory. And as a reward for being honest and returning the items he still has, he gets to lose both the items and his money.... and some here inexplicably think that somehow the dealer DESERVES to have that happen to him? Really? That's no different than if you'd said that OP deserved to get robbed.
I sympathize with OP; both my house and our business have been burglarized. It sucks. Bad. You feel personally violated, and you want to retaliate. But the dealer's not the bad guy; it's the little scumbags who stole from you. If anything, the dealer's a secondary victim, as his money is essentially stolen as well. (Now if the dealer were a true "fence" and complicit in the theft, that would be different. But that's not what we're talking about here, and is not the case 99.99% of the time.)
Also, as an aside-all the armchair lawyers out there spouting off about who holds title to what need to realize that the laws vary from state to state, sometimes county to county, and even between municipalities in some instances. I don't know what the law is in OP's jurisdiction, but here we have to hold the items 7 days and log the purchase into an online database. Once 7 days is up and nothing's reported stolen, we own them. If something comes up after that... if we still have the item we return it and eat the loss, as the thieves (you know, the guys who actually ARE the "slime") don't have a pot to whiz in or a window to throw it out of, so there's seldom if ever any restitution actually paid. If the time frame is up and the item's sold, it's up to the victim to seek restitution from the thieves for anything unrecovered.
Just my humble views on this situation, from a "slimy" dealer's point of view. >>
After the complaint was made and the thieves admitted to stealing the coins and selling them to a specific dealer [with video evidence to confirm] the dealer was hostile and uncooperative in helping the OP to try and recover his coins. While he may not have been a thief, his action/s put him in the scummy POS category for me. When a group of guys walk in to your store with a bunch of uncommon coins, it shouldn't take much thinking to figure that they were obtained dishonestly. All he will get from the thieves is maybe the satisfaction of getting a little time, if that. Hopefully, the insurance company will make him whole monetarily. >>
Odd, I guess I missed the part of the OP that said he was "hostile and uncooperative". What I saw was that he "informed the police officer that the coins were already sold"... As to the rest of it... maybe the guy wasn't good at reading people. Maybe a clerk bought the deal. Maybe he just screwed up. All speculation.
If I'm OP I might consider Sanction II's advice and try the shotgun approach to get some restitution from someone in the chain of custody. It seems odd that the PD didn't try harder to recover the coins. It wouldn't have gone down that way here. Like I said though...different jurisdictions, different rules. If nothing else, I'd sue the guys who are already guilty of the theft and get a judgement for restitution.
<< <i>I really like how the usual mob mentality has turned the DEALER into the scumbag rather than the actual thieves...
And for doing what, exactly? His job?
He's there to buy and sell coins. He doesn't have a magical mind reading helmet that tells him whether something's stolen or not.
Not all crooks come in dressed like gangsters, and despite good faith efforts to "read" would-be sellers, sometimes you miss one.
As to his having sold the stuff... if some of the buyers paid cash there's no record of who bought what, plus some buyers aren't overly chatty with their personal info by design-you know, identity theft and all... so although some stuff could potentially be tracked (things bought via check, charge perhaps), unless he knows the buyer personally it would be impossible to track the sold for cash items. That doesn't make the dealer a "fence" or a "slime", that makes him like every other business owner that doesn't have an identic memory. And as a reward for being honest and returning the items he still has, he gets to lose both the items and his money.... and some here inexplicably think that somehow the dealer DESERVES to have that happen to him? Really? That's no different than if you'd said that OP deserved to get robbed.
I sympathize with OP; both my house and our business have been burglarized. It sucks. Bad. You feel personally violated, and you want to retaliate. But the dealer's not the bad guy; it's the little scumbags who stole from you. If anything, the dealer's a secondary victim, as his money is essentially stolen as well. (Now if the dealer were a true "fence" and complicit in the theft, that would be different. But that's not what we're talking about here, and is not the case 99.99% of the time.)
Also, as an aside-all the armchair lawyers out there spouting off about who holds title to what need to realize that the laws vary from state to state, sometimes county to county, and even between municipalities in some instances. I don't know what the law is in OP's jurisdiction, but here we have to hold the items 7 days and log the purchase into an online database. Once 7 days is up and nothing's reported stolen, we own them. If something comes up after that... if we still have the item we return it and eat the loss, as the thieves (you know, the guys who actually ARE the "slime") don't have a pot to whiz in or a window to throw it out of, so there's seldom if ever any restitution actually paid. If the time frame is up and the item's sold, it's up to the victim to seek restitution from the thieves for anything unrecovered.
Just my humble views on this situation, from a "slimy" dealer's point of view. >>
After the complaint was made and the thieves admitted to stealing the coins and selling them to a specific dealer [with video evidence to confirm] the dealer was hostile and uncooperative in helping the OP to try and recover his coins. While he may not have been a thief, his action/s put him in the scummy POS category for me. When a group of guys walk in to your store with a bunch of uncommon coins, it shouldn't take much thinking to figure that they were obtained dishonestly. All he will get from the thieves is maybe the satisfaction of getting a little time, if that. Hopefully, the insurance company will make him whole monetarily. >>
Odd, I guess I missed the part of the OP that said he was "hostile and uncooperative". What I saw was that he "informed the police officer that the coins were already sold"... As to the rest of it... maybe the guy wasn't good at reading people. Maybe a clerk bought the deal. Maybe he just screwed up. All speculation.
If I'm OP I might consider Sanction II's advice and try the shotgun approach to get some restitution from someone in the chain of custody. It seems odd that the PD didn't try harder to recover the coins. It wouldn't have gone down that way here. Like I said though...different jurisdictions, different rules. If nothing else, I'd sue the guys who are already guilty of the theft and get a judgement for restitution.
Edited for clarity. >>
The info about the dealer being hostile and uncooperative was gleaned from the OP via private conversation. Since it was about a week before the OP became aware of his loss, it was likely already too late to expect to be able to recover the coins from the dealer, esp. if the dealer was as shady as we are led to believe. Reminds me of a situation years ago where a guy found one of his guns for sale at a shop in a nearby town. When he confronted the dealer, he got very defensive. Rather than drag the law into it, he bought it back. Turns out it was stolen by his hired man's son who sold it to the dealer.
One of the dealers involved was actually very unfriendly, borderline hostile. When I approached and asked if he remembered buying any of the coins on the list he informed me that he buys lots of coins from lots of people. I stated that these were not your average coins, I even asked how often he purchased groups of 1806 half dollars. At that point he informed me that I had to leave the store as he had other more important things to attend to. I was not happy, however, I am not a really confrontational person, so I simply left and surrendered all hope of recovering any of the coins
I greatly appreciate all of this feedback. I know the coins are gone, luckily not a huge financial loss, but it definitely has been an eye opening experience for me. The most unfortunate thing may be that my wife is now really against my coin collection. I also know that these people have been talking around town and now a lot of undesirables know that the dentist living on the hill has a coin collection. That is what really sucks
<< <i>I greatly appreciate all of this feedback. I know the coins are gone, luckily not a huge financial loss, but it definitely has been an eye opening experience for me. The most unfortunate thing may be that my wife is now really against my coin collection. I also know that these people have been talking around town and now a lot of undesirables know that the dentist living on the hill has a coin collection. That is what really sucks >>
Seems to me it's entirely possible that someone was already talking before this; that's how the 'landscapers' knew you just came back from Central States and had something at home... that's certainly not just a coincidence.
<< <i>I greatly appreciate all of this feedback. I know the coins are gone, luckily not a huge financial loss, but it definitely has been an eye opening experience for me. The most unfortunate thing may be that my wife is now really against my coin collection. I also know that these people have been talking around town and now a lot of undesirables know that the dentist living on the hill has a coin collection. That is what really sucks >>
Seems to me it's entirely possible that someone was already talking before this; that's how the 'landscapers' knew you just came back from Central States and had something at home... that's certainly not just a coincidence. >>
I think you are giving them too much credit for knowing stuff. It would seem to me to be a crime of opportunity. After all, these guys were hired by the op to do work there. Maybe there is a nice german shepherd or doberman dog that needs adopting.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i> The person that hit my car left the scene, but someone else witnessed the accident and informed the office and the police were called. The police found the person that hit my car, one of my wife's employees! But because the accident happened on private property there is nothing we can do according to the police. >>
That is preposterous! A crime is a crime regqardless of whether or not it occurs on private property.
If what you are saying is true, those are just lazy cops who are feeding you a load of bullcrap in order to make their paperwork load lighter.
<< <i>I greatly appreciate all of this feedback. I know the coins are gone, luckily not a huge financial loss, but it definitely has been an eye opening experience for me. The most unfortunate thing may be that my wife is now really against my coin collection. I also know that these people have been talking around town and now a lot of undesirables know that the dentist living on the hill has a coin collection. That is what really sucks >>
Seems to me it's entirely possible that someone was already talking before this; that's how the 'landscapers' knew you just came back from Central States and had something at home... that's certainly not just a coincidence. >>
Must be why they left some of the best coins behind instead of taking them all.
<< <i>If someone knocked on your door and said "you're wearing my shirt, give it back." How would you go about proving that you owned the shirt you were wearing? >>
Not entirely analogous to this situation, but I wouldn't need to prove I owned the shirt. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim that it's his. He would need to establish that it was his shirt...and absent any supporting evidence, unless he had a way of distinguishing his shirt from the 238,000 others that Walmart/Target/whoever sold of the same design, he'd likely lose.
Sometimes the police will refuse to help, even when there is clear evidence of a crime.
Sometimes the police will help and are eager to help, but the DA's office refuses to do anything to initiate criminal charges.
About 18 years ago I represented a client who hired a foreclosure company to foreclose a delinquent real estate loan that he had. He paid the company 100% of the money it was owed for its services up front. The company foreclosed for my client and collected about $325K (th emonies owed under the loan). The company put this money in its client trust account and cut my client a check for just under $300K. It kept the remaining $25K. I sued the company and obtained copies of the bank records for the companies bank accounts. The $25K that was stolen from my client was paid out of the trust account into the general account and then from the general account to pay personal bills of the owner of the company (including vacation, spa treatments, Nordstrom bills, etc.).
I took all of the evidence I obtained and presented it to the police in the town where the company was located. The police were very interested in pursuing the matter as the amount of money stolen from my client qualified for grand theft (a felony).
However, the county DA's office looked at the information (police report and evidence) presented to it by the police department and simply said "we will not prosecute".
Dead letter. Nothing was ever done criminally. I obtain a civil judgment but my client never collected a dime.
Sorry to hear about this. Don't give up on your coins, 1806 half dollars are scarce and they will turn up. If you have pictures, or know of the die varieties, that would help. If the police don't care about your stolen property, and the dealer that you believe has the coins orders you out of the shop, its time to get a lawyer.
Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
You might get some mileage checking into any organizations this dealer may be a member (ANA, ICTA, BBB, Dept of Consumer Protection (for contractors), Chamber of Commerce, local coin clubs, PCGS, NGC, etc.). None of these organizations wants to have associations with crooks. If he is slimy it's likely he belongs to nothing except Local 12 VTSU....Villains Thieves and Scoundrels Union.
they are a PCGS and NGC dealer. Tomorrow I will be going down to the store that the police have visited and see if I can get anywhere. I really want the 1806 halves back and those are coins that don't just walk in everyday. So they should at least have a record of who they sold those to.
I feel for you, i have been ripped off in the past. Cops were beyond worthless in helping me. Once i had some ATV's stolen and the cops basicly said they would spend zero time looking for them. We found them 10 miles down the road in a subdivision, parked in a backyard. I was plenty steamed and used my powerstroke to make a gate in the wood picket fence and 2 of my friends fired them up and off we went. I got a visit from the cops and almost a trip to town.
The crooks know that very little attention is given to homeowners getting ripped off.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
If you give a little free time helping out at the station or a gift here and there it gives you a little pull with the Police Dept. Crazy but it works they don't like to see one of ther own get the short end of the stick.... Hope it all works out for you. But the longer it takes the less of a chance you will get your coins back. Tell the owner of the shop when he tells you to leave. Let him know that if and when it happens to him you hope he get's treated the same way he treated you Karma sucks.
<< <i>I feel for you, i have been ripped off in the past. Cops were beyond worthless in helping me. Once i had some ATV's stolen and the cops basicly said they would spend zero time looking for them. We found them 10 miles down the road in a subdivision, parked in a backyard. I was plenty steamed and used my powerstroke to make a gate in the wood picket fence and 2 of my friends fired them up and off we went. I got a visit from the cops and almost a trip to town.
The crooks know that very little attention is given to homeowners getting ripped off. >>
Sad part is if the crooks had damaged YOUR propitty in the process of stealing them, there still would be no effort from the cops on your behalf.
A couple of incidents in the past two years re-inforced my belief that you trust nobody and don't count on the overworked police to aid you.
Situation #1... continuous break-ins at my storage units. Perp was former employee that knew where the good stuff was stashed. Set up A Deer Camera and busted him in the act after a couple of visits from the overworked PD.
Situation #2... my housekeeper lifted about 10 Coach Handbags from my wife's closet. My wife (a hoarder in some real sense) didn't notice they were missing for some time.
Alerted, the police said without taking images/writing down the serial number (who knew handbags had serial numbers) we were just SOL. No way to prove anything.
Confronted... the perp said "Oh NOOOO miss Wendy, I wouldn't know what a designer handbag looked like."
Yet a month later the office manager at her employment emailed me a pic of .... tada... a Coach Handbag she brought to work.
Filing a police report creates a paper trail and may help somebody down the road. And it will happen again to somebody... somewhere.
I had a neighbor personally inform all of her Country Club clients of the suspected theft. It was illuminating some of the stories from those clients... of missing jewelry that miraculously re-appeared, missing cloths, missing gift cards.
Her income moonlighting as a cleaning lady has taken a hit as she lost about a half dozen clients. Her managers are in the loop, and someday the will find just cause to dump her.
Pay back can be sweet.
I would find out where the crew is working around town and simply inform the homeowners. Trickle down economics at its best...
If they are drinkers and bar hop... follow them home and call the cops for a DUI stop.
No advice on the dealer except possibly a sting of some type. Lazy and/or overworked police doesn't inspire confidence in this route.
<< <i>"Not so lucky. The slimy coin dealer (he is well known as a crook around here by collectors) informed the police officer that the coins were already sold"
IF the dealer admitted to police that these coins were already sold by him, what's not so lucky about pressuring him with prosecution as an accessory to selling stolen property? At the very least, the dealer should be able to show a record of sale to the buyers of the stolen property. You could also make life very difficult for the landscaper. Craigslist is a great place to expose criminals. >>
+1
If the dealer sold the coins then he has to produce the records of who he sold the coins too and that would be the next direction I would take.
The thiefs confessed. Can't you and the police get the thiefs to tell you which dealer they sold the coins to? Then get the police to escort you and the thiefs to the coin dealer's coin shop. You can confront the dealer with the police and the thief(s) present. It seems you could tell the thiefs if they point out the dealer they sold the coins you will go after the dealer and they (the thiefs) may not have to pay any restitution. Very sorry to hear of your loss fishteeth. I have always loved the look of the 1806 and all the other draped bust halves you have posted on these forums.
Comments
<< <i>Let me get this right
You purchased coins and you own them and they were taken without permisson. (stolen)
Those who took the coins sold them to a dealer who paid for them. He got the proper ID and turned that information over to the police.
Now the hard point ...
Do you want the dealer to hand over the coins that He owns for FREE.???
That is like trying to steal them back.
You should have done this offer to pay what he paid for the coins and turn it in to you insurance company. >>
Wrong!
The dealer who purchased the stolen coins is not the owner of the coins. He does not have title to them. It does not matter how many times the coins have been sold/purchased after being stolen, title is always vested with the person from whom they were stolen.
<< <i>I do not see why you have to hire an attorney. The evidence against the crooked dealer along with evidence against the landscapers is all there. I'd talk to the areas prosecuting attorney and possibly the state attorney general. Law enforcement dropped the ball, I'd want them to pick it back up. It sounds like a couple of them need a reason to do their jobs. >>
Unfortunately I am finding with law enforcement that they have so many problems that non-violent crimes get real low priority unless the victim is well known. On Monday I had my wife take my car when she went to work so I could work on her car and rotate the tires, change oil etc. Later that morning I get a call that my car was hit in the parking lot of her company. The person that hit my car left the scene, but someone else witnessed the accident and informed the office and the police were called. The police found the person that hit my car, one of my wife's employees! But because the accident happened on private property there is nothing we can do according to the police. About all my wife can do for recourse is to make the employee miserable enough with "other tasks as assigned" that they quit their job. Which according to my wife would be a good thing for her company.
I understand the landscapers taking the coins, but what did the dealer do wrong
He had nothing to do with the stealing of the coins.
the dots connect the landscrapers to the coins but not the dealer.
Think about this..
I have NO coins.
I claim someone took a complete set of morgans my grandfather left me. Knowing the coins shop just purchased a set.
since I am claiming they were given to me I have No paperwork.
Should the coin shop just turn over the morgan set to me.?
Would this scam work and why not?
<< <i>bajjerfan. Did the dealer have ANY knowledge of the stolen coins in advance?
I understand the landscapers taking the coins, but what did the dealer do wrong
He had nothing to do with the stealing of the coins.
the dots connect the landscrapers to the coins but not the dealer.
Think about this..
I have NO coins.
I claim someone took a complete set of morgans my grandfather left me. Knowing the coins shop just purchased a set.
since I am claiming they were given to me I have No paperwork.
Should the coin shop just turn over the morgan set to me.?
Would this scam work and why not? >>
The dealer did wrong by commiting an act of conversion. The dealer who bought the stolen goods converted the property of someone else, thereby depriving the rightful owner of its use and enjoyment.
If someone knocked on your door and said "you're wearing my shirt, give it back."
How would you go about proving that you owned the shirt you were wearing?
<< <i>
<< <i>Really
What has happened to our values??????
One is not guilty until proven in a court of law..
Do you prejudge everyone...
If one is a different color are they less than you!
You sir are all wrong by judging other.
Ever hear "don't judge a book by its cover"
I can mail out a package faster than one can get a court order and I don't have to report raw coins.
And yes I know a landscaper that collect better coins. He works hard for his money and enjoys his collection of better date gold coins. >>
His coins were missing. There was video evidence of the same group of people who were at his residence also visiting a coin shop and selling coins. Sounds like more than coincidence to me. I bet what really happened is that those coins walked off of their own free will and just happened to run into those landscape helpers. >>
LOL. He works hard for the money....
I don't know how it works in every other state in the union, but in IL if you as a dealer buy stolen coins, whether or not you know they're stolen, if they prove to be you'll need to turn over said stolen property to the proper authorities and you will be SOL, your mistake for buying them. Perhaps other established dealers can comment, but that's why one scrupulously honest dealer I know covers his butt, and needs proper ID, etc. when buying of any given amount of stuff, much less what would amount to a significant holding. He also has grown quite skilled over the years at judging whether some potential seller and his pieces are a "mismatch", shall we say. LOL
And for doing what, exactly? His job?
He's there to buy and sell coins. He doesn't have a magical mind reading helmet that tells him whether something's stolen or not.
Not all crooks come in dressed like gangsters, and despite good faith efforts to "read" would-be sellers, sometimes you miss one.
As to his having sold the stuff... if some of the buyers paid cash there's no record of who bought what, plus some buyers aren't overly chatty with their personal info by design-you know, identity theft and all... so although some stuff could potentially be tracked (things bought via check, charge perhaps), unless he knows the buyer personally it would be impossible to track the sold for cash items. That doesn't make the dealer a "fence" or a "slime", that makes him like every other business owner that doesn't have an identic memory. And as a reward for being honest and returning the items he still has, he gets to lose both the items and his money.... and some here inexplicably think that somehow the dealer DESERVES to have that happen to him? Really? That's no different than if you'd said that OP deserved to get robbed.
I sympathize with OP; both my house and our business have been burglarized. It sucks. Bad. You feel personally violated, and you want to retaliate. But the dealer's not the bad guy; it's the little scumbags who stole from you.
If anything, the dealer's a secondary victim, as his money is essentially stolen as well.
(Now if the dealer were a true "fence" and complicit in the theft, that would be different. But that's not what we're talking about here, and is not the case 99.99% of the time.)
Also, as an aside-all the armchair lawyers out there spouting off about who holds title to what need to realize that the laws vary from state to state, sometimes county to county, and even between municipalities in some instances.
I don't know what the law is in OP's jurisdiction, but here we have to hold the items 7 days and log the purchase into an online database. Once 7 days is up and nothing's reported stolen, we own them. If something comes up after that... if we still have the item we return it and eat the loss, as the thieves (you know, the guys who actually ARE the "slime") don't have a pot to whiz in or a window to throw it out of, so there's seldom if ever any restitution actually paid. If the time frame is up and the item's sold, it's up to the victim to seek restitution from the thieves for anything unrecovered.
Just my humble views on this situation, from a "slimy" dealer's point of view.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>I really like how the usual mob mentality has turned the DEALER into the scumbag rather than the actual thieves...
And for doing what, exactly? His job?
He's there to buy and sell coins. He doesn't have a magical mind reading helmet that tells him whether something's stolen or not.
Not all crooks come in dressed like gangsters, and despite good faith efforts to "read" would-be sellers, sometimes you miss one.
As to his having sold the stuff... if some of the buyers paid cash there's no record of who bought what, plus some buyers aren't overly chatty with their personal info by design-you know, identity theft and all... so although some stuff could potentially be tracked (things bought via check, charge perhaps), unless he knows the buyer personally it would be impossible to track the sold for cash items. That doesn't make the dealer a "fence" or a "slime", that makes him like every other business owner that doesn't have an identic memory. And as a reward for being honest and returning the items he still has, he gets to lose both the items and his money.... and some here inexplicably think that somehow the dealer DESERVES to have that happen to him? Really? That's no different than if you'd said that OP deserved to get robbed.
I sympathize with OP; both my house and our business have been burglarized. It sucks. Bad. You feel personally violated, and you want to retaliate. But the dealer's not the bad guy; it's the little scumbags who stole from you.
If anything, the dealer's a secondary victim, as his money is essentially stolen as well.
(Now if the dealer were a true "fence" and complicit in the theft, that would be different. But that's not what we're talking about here, and is not the case 99.99% of the time.)
Also, as an aside-all the armchair lawyers out there spouting off about who holds title to what need to realize that the laws vary from state to state, sometimes county to county, and even between municipalities in some instances.
I don't know what the law is in OP's jurisdiction, but here we have to hold the items 7 days and log the purchase into an online database. Once 7 days is up and nothing's reported stolen, we own them. If something comes up after that... if we still have the item we return it and eat the loss, as the thieves (you know, the guys who actually ARE the "slime") don't have a pot to whiz in or a window to throw it out of, so there's seldom if ever any restitution actually paid. If the time frame is up and the item's sold, it's up to the victim to seek restitution from the thieves for anything unrecovered.
Just my humble views on this situation, from a "slimy" dealer's point of view.
Hopefully you won't get any splinters from that chip on your shoulder.
<< <i>
<< <i>I really like how the usual mob mentality has turned the DEALER into the scumbag rather than the actual thieves...
And for doing what, exactly? His job?
He's there to buy and sell coins. He doesn't have a magical mind reading helmet that tells him whether something's stolen or not.
Not all crooks come in dressed like gangsters, and despite good faith efforts to "read" would-be sellers, sometimes you miss one.
As to his having sold the stuff... if some of the buyers paid cash there's no record of who bought what, plus some buyers aren't overly chatty with their personal info by design-you know, identity theft and all... so although some stuff could potentially be tracked (things bought via check, charge perhaps), unless he knows the buyer personally it would be impossible to track the sold for cash items. That doesn't make the dealer a "fence" or a "slime", that makes him like every other business owner that doesn't have an identic memory. And as a reward for being honest and returning the items he still has, he gets to lose both the items and his money.... and some here inexplicably think that somehow the dealer DESERVES to have that happen to him? Really? That's no different than if you'd said that OP deserved to get robbed.
I sympathize with OP; both my house and our business have been burglarized. It sucks. Bad. You feel personally violated, and you want to retaliate. But the dealer's not the bad guy; it's the little scumbags who stole from you.
If anything, the dealer's a secondary victim, as his money is essentially stolen as well.
(Now if the dealer were a true "fence" and complicit in the theft, that would be different. But that's not what we're talking about here, and is not the case 99.99% of the time.)
Also, as an aside-all the armchair lawyers out there spouting off about who holds title to what need to realize that the laws vary from state to state, sometimes county to county, and even between municipalities in some instances.
I don't know what the law is in OP's jurisdiction, but here we have to hold the items 7 days and log the purchase into an online database. Once 7 days is up and nothing's reported stolen, we own them. If something comes up after that... if we still have the item we return it and eat the loss, as the thieves (you know, the guys who actually ARE the "slime") don't have a pot to whiz in or a window to throw it out of, so there's seldom if ever any restitution actually paid. If the time frame is up and the item's sold, it's up to the victim to seek restitution from the thieves for anything unrecovered.
Just my humble views on this situation, from a "slimy" dealer's point of view.
Hopefully you won't get any splinters from that chip on your shoulder.
No more than those with the perpetual sticks up their posteriors concerning coin dealers.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>Let me get this right
You purchased coins and you own them and they were taken without permisson. (stolen)
Those who took the coins sold them to a dealer who paid for them. He got the proper ID and turned that information over to the police.
Now the hard point ...
Do you want the dealer to hand over the coins that He owns for FREE.???
That is like trying to steal them back.
You should have done this offer to pay what he paid for the coins and turn it in to you insurance company. >>
I hope you are kidding. They have a word for this. Ransom. You do not have title regardless how much you pay for something if it is stolen.
<< <i>I really like how the usual mob mentality has turned the DEALER into the scumbag rather than the actual thieves...
And for doing what, exactly? His job?
He's there to buy and sell coins. He doesn't have a magical mind reading helmet that tells him whether something's stolen or not.
Not all crooks come in dressed like gangsters, and despite good faith efforts to "read" would-be sellers, sometimes you miss one.
As to his having sold the stuff... if some of the buyers paid cash there's no record of who bought what, plus some buyers aren't overly chatty with their personal info by design-you know, identity theft and all... so although some stuff could potentially be tracked (things bought via check, charge perhaps), unless he knows the buyer personally it would be impossible to track the sold for cash items. That doesn't make the dealer a "fence" or a "slime", that makes him like every other business owner that doesn't have an identic memory. And as a reward for being honest and returning the items he still has, he gets to lose both the items and his money.... and some here inexplicably think that somehow the dealer DESERVES to have that happen to him? Really? That's no different than if you'd said that OP deserved to get robbed.
I sympathize with OP; both my house and our business have been burglarized. It sucks. Bad. You feel personally violated, and you want to retaliate. But the dealer's not the bad guy; it's the little scumbags who stole from you.
If anything, the dealer's a secondary victim, as his money is essentially stolen as well.
(Now if the dealer were a true "fence" and complicit in the theft, that would be different. But that's not what we're talking about here, and is not the case 99.99% of the time.)
Also, as an aside-all the armchair lawyers out there spouting off about who holds title to what need to realize that the laws vary from state to state, sometimes county to county, and even between municipalities in some instances.
I don't know what the law is in OP's jurisdiction, but here we have to hold the items 7 days and log the purchase into an online database. Once 7 days is up and nothing's reported stolen, we own them. If something comes up after that... if we still have the item we return it and eat the loss, as the thieves (you know, the guys who actually ARE the "slime") don't have a pot to whiz in or a window to throw it out of, so there's seldom if ever any restitution actually paid. If the time frame is up and the item's sold, it's up to the victim to seek restitution from the thieves for anything unrecovered.
Just my humble views on this situation, from a "slimy" dealer's point of view.
After the complaint was made and the thieves admitted to stealing the coins and selling them to a specific dealer [with video evidence to confirm] the dealer was hostile and uncooperative in helping the OP to try and recover his coins. While he may not have been a thief, his action/s put him in the scummy POS category for me. When a group of guys walk in to your store with a bunch of uncommon coins, it shouldn't take much thinking to figure that they were obtained dishonestly. All he will get from the thieves is maybe the satisfaction of getting a little time, if that. Hopefully, the insurance company will make him whole monetarily.
this dealer told me about how he has learned to 'read' who he purchases from. if anything seems less than up and up, he just lets them passby. doesnt want to get involved. not worth the risk. it was very interesting. it added an extra layer of risk that i had no idea existed for dealers. the time of holding requirements. . yuck
<< <i>
<< <i>I really like how the usual mob mentality has turned the DEALER into the scumbag rather than the actual thieves...
And for doing what, exactly? His job?
He's there to buy and sell coins. He doesn't have a magical mind reading helmet that tells him whether something's stolen or not.
Not all crooks come in dressed like gangsters, and despite good faith efforts to "read" would-be sellers, sometimes you miss one.
As to his having sold the stuff... if some of the buyers paid cash there's no record of who bought what, plus some buyers aren't overly chatty with their personal info by design-you know, identity theft and all... so although some stuff could potentially be tracked (things bought via check, charge perhaps), unless he knows the buyer personally it would be impossible to track the sold for cash items. That doesn't make the dealer a "fence" or a "slime", that makes him like every other business owner that doesn't have an identic memory. And as a reward for being honest and returning the items he still has, he gets to lose both the items and his money.... and some here inexplicably think that somehow the dealer DESERVES to have that happen to him? Really? That's no different than if you'd said that OP deserved to get robbed.
I sympathize with OP; both my house and our business have been burglarized. It sucks. Bad. You feel personally violated, and you want to retaliate. But the dealer's not the bad guy; it's the little scumbags who stole from you.
If anything, the dealer's a secondary victim, as his money is essentially stolen as well.
(Now if the dealer were a true "fence" and complicit in the theft, that would be different. But that's not what we're talking about here, and is not the case 99.99% of the time.)
Also, as an aside-all the armchair lawyers out there spouting off about who holds title to what need to realize that the laws vary from state to state, sometimes county to county, and even between municipalities in some instances.
I don't know what the law is in OP's jurisdiction, but here we have to hold the items 7 days and log the purchase into an online database. Once 7 days is up and nothing's reported stolen, we own them. If something comes up after that... if we still have the item we return it and eat the loss, as the thieves (you know, the guys who actually ARE the "slime") don't have a pot to whiz in or a window to throw it out of, so there's seldom if ever any restitution actually paid. If the time frame is up and the item's sold, it's up to the victim to seek restitution from the thieves for anything unrecovered.
Just my humble views on this situation, from a "slimy" dealer's point of view.
After the complaint was made and the thieves admitted to stealing the coins and selling them to a specific dealer [with video evidence to confirm] the dealer was hostile and uncooperative in helping the OP to try and recover his coins. While he may not have been a thief, his action/s put him in the scummy POS category for me. When a group of guys walk in to your store with a bunch of uncommon coins, it shouldn't take much thinking to figure that they were obtained dishonestly. All he will get from the thieves is maybe the satisfaction of getting a little time, if that. Hopefully, the insurance company will make him whole monetarily. >>
Odd, I guess I missed the part of the OP that said he was "hostile and uncooperative". What I saw was that he "informed the police officer that the coins were already sold"...
As to the rest of it... maybe the guy wasn't good at reading people. Maybe a clerk bought the deal. Maybe he just screwed up. All speculation.
If I'm OP I might consider Sanction II's advice and try the shotgun approach to get some restitution from someone in the chain of custody. It seems odd that the PD didn't try harder to recover the coins. It wouldn't have gone down that way here. Like I said though...different jurisdictions, different rules. If nothing else, I'd sue the guys who are already guilty of the theft and get a judgement for restitution.
Edited for clarity.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I really like how the usual mob mentality has turned the DEALER into the scumbag rather than the actual thieves...
And for doing what, exactly? His job?
He's there to buy and sell coins. He doesn't have a magical mind reading helmet that tells him whether something's stolen or not.
Not all crooks come in dressed like gangsters, and despite good faith efforts to "read" would-be sellers, sometimes you miss one.
As to his having sold the stuff... if some of the buyers paid cash there's no record of who bought what, plus some buyers aren't overly chatty with their personal info by design-you know, identity theft and all... so although some stuff could potentially be tracked (things bought via check, charge perhaps), unless he knows the buyer personally it would be impossible to track the sold for cash items. That doesn't make the dealer a "fence" or a "slime", that makes him like every other business owner that doesn't have an identic memory. And as a reward for being honest and returning the items he still has, he gets to lose both the items and his money.... and some here inexplicably think that somehow the dealer DESERVES to have that happen to him? Really? That's no different than if you'd said that OP deserved to get robbed.
I sympathize with OP; both my house and our business have been burglarized. It sucks. Bad. You feel personally violated, and you want to retaliate. But the dealer's not the bad guy; it's the little scumbags who stole from you.
If anything, the dealer's a secondary victim, as his money is essentially stolen as well.
(Now if the dealer were a true "fence" and complicit in the theft, that would be different. But that's not what we're talking about here, and is not the case 99.99% of the time.)
Also, as an aside-all the armchair lawyers out there spouting off about who holds title to what need to realize that the laws vary from state to state, sometimes county to county, and even between municipalities in some instances.
I don't know what the law is in OP's jurisdiction, but here we have to hold the items 7 days and log the purchase into an online database. Once 7 days is up and nothing's reported stolen, we own them. If something comes up after that... if we still have the item we return it and eat the loss, as the thieves (you know, the guys who actually ARE the "slime") don't have a pot to whiz in or a window to throw it out of, so there's seldom if ever any restitution actually paid. If the time frame is up and the item's sold, it's up to the victim to seek restitution from the thieves for anything unrecovered.
Just my humble views on this situation, from a "slimy" dealer's point of view.
After the complaint was made and the thieves admitted to stealing the coins and selling them to a specific dealer [with video evidence to confirm] the dealer was hostile and uncooperative in helping the OP to try and recover his coins. While he may not have been a thief, his action/s put him in the scummy POS category for me. When a group of guys walk in to your store with a bunch of uncommon coins, it shouldn't take much thinking to figure that they were obtained dishonestly. All he will get from the thieves is maybe the satisfaction of getting a little time, if that. Hopefully, the insurance company will make him whole monetarily. >>
Odd, I guess I missed the part of the OP that said he was "hostile and uncooperative". What I saw was that he "informed the police officer that the coins were already sold"...
As to the rest of it... maybe the guy wasn't good at reading people. Maybe a clerk bought the deal. Maybe he just screwed up. All speculation.
If I'm OP I might consider Sanction II's advice and try the shotgun approach to get some restitution from someone in the chain of custody. It seems odd that the PD didn't try harder to recover the coins. It wouldn't have gone down that way here. Like I said though...different jurisdictions, different rules. If nothing else, I'd sue the guys who are already guilty of the theft and get a judgement for restitution.
Edited for clarity. >>
The info about the dealer being hostile and uncooperative was gleaned from the OP via private conversation. Since it was about a week before the OP became aware of his loss, it was likely already too late to expect to be able to recover the coins from the dealer, esp. if the dealer was as shady as we are led to believe. Reminds me of a situation years ago where a guy found one of his guns for sale at a shop in a nearby town. When he confronted the dealer, he got very defensive. Rather than drag the law into it, he bought it back. Turns out it was stolen by his hired man's son who sold it to the dealer.
he informed me that he buys lots of coins from lots of people. I stated that these were not your average coins, I even asked how often he purchased groups of 1806 half dollars. At that point he informed me that I had to leave the store as he had other more important things to attend to.
I was not happy, however, I am not a really confrontational person, so I simply left and surrendered all hope of recovering any of the coins
<< <i>Branch out into ARs and they might be slightly deterred from paying you another visit. >>
Great idea, guns never get stolen.
<< <i>I greatly appreciate all of this feedback. I know the coins are gone, luckily not a huge financial loss, but it definitely has been an eye opening experience for me. The most unfortunate thing may be that my wife is now really against my coin collection. I also know that these people have been talking around town and now a lot of undesirables know that the dentist living on the hill has a coin collection. That is what really sucks >>
Seems to me it's entirely possible that someone was already talking before this; that's how the 'landscapers' knew you just came back from Central States and had something at home... that's certainly not just a coincidence.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>
<< <i>I greatly appreciate all of this feedback. I know the coins are gone, luckily not a huge financial loss, but it definitely has been an eye opening experience for me. The most unfortunate thing may be that my wife is now really against my coin collection. I also know that these people have been talking around town and now a lot of undesirables know that the dentist living on the hill has a coin collection. That is what really sucks >>
Seems to me it's entirely possible that someone was already talking before this; that's how the 'landscapers' knew you just came back from Central States and had something at home... that's certainly not just a coincidence. >>
I think you are giving them too much credit for knowing stuff. It would seem to me to be a crime of opportunity. After all, these guys were hired by the op to do work there. Maybe there is a nice german shepherd or doberman dog that needs adopting.
<< <i> The person that hit my car left the scene, but someone else witnessed the accident and informed the office and the police were called. The police found the person that hit my car, one of my wife's employees! But because the accident happened on private property there is nothing we can do according to the police. >>
That is preposterous! A crime is a crime regqardless of whether or not it occurs on private property.
If what you are saying is true, those are just lazy cops who are feeding you a load of bullcrap in order to make their paperwork load lighter.
<< <i>
<< <i>I greatly appreciate all of this feedback. I know the coins are gone, luckily not a huge financial loss, but it definitely has been an eye opening experience for me. The most unfortunate thing may be that my wife is now really against my coin collection. I also know that these people have been talking around town and now a lot of undesirables know that the dentist living on the hill has a coin collection. That is what really sucks >>
Seems to me it's entirely possible that someone was already talking before this; that's how the 'landscapers' knew you just came back from Central States and had something at home... that's certainly not just a coincidence. >>
Must be why they left some of the best coins behind instead of taking them all.
<< <i>If someone knocked on your door and said "you're wearing my shirt, give it back."
How would you go about proving that you owned the shirt you were wearing? >>
Not entirely analogous to this situation, but I wouldn't need to prove I owned the shirt. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim that it's his. He would need to establish that it was his shirt...and absent any supporting evidence, unless he had a way of distinguishing his shirt from the 238,000 others that Walmart/Target/whoever sold of the same design, he'd likely lose.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Sometimes the police will help and are eager to help, but the DA's office refuses to do anything to initiate criminal charges.
About 18 years ago I represented a client who hired a foreclosure company to foreclose a delinquent real estate loan that he had. He paid the company 100% of the money it was owed for its services up front. The company foreclosed for my client and collected about $325K (th emonies owed under the loan). The company put this money in its client trust account and cut my client a check for just under $300K. It kept the remaining $25K. I sued the company and obtained copies of the bank records for the companies bank accounts. The $25K that was stolen from my client was paid out of the trust account into the general account and then from the general account to pay personal bills of the owner of the company (including vacation, spa treatments, Nordstrom bills, etc.).
I took all of the evidence I obtained and presented it to the police in the town where the company was located. The police were very interested in pursuing the matter as the amount of money stolen from my client qualified for grand theft (a felony).
However, the county DA's office looked at the information (police report and evidence) presented to it by the police department and simply said "we will not prosecute".
Dead letter. Nothing was ever done criminally. I obtain a civil judgment but my client never collected a dime.
The crooks know that very little attention is given to homeowners getting ripped off.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
Hoard the keys.
They may talk (they always do) and some of the group, or friends, may try again.
Perhaps this a great time to consider some upgrades to security.
Hopefully you get a better group of coins back from the wheel of fortune.
best...
<< <i>I feel for you, i have been ripped off in the past. Cops were beyond worthless in helping me. Once i had some ATV's stolen and the cops basicly said they would spend zero time looking for them. We found them 10 miles down the road in a subdivision, parked in a backyard. I was plenty steamed and used my powerstroke to make a gate in the wood picket fence and 2 of my friends fired them up and off we went. I got a visit from the cops and almost a trip to town.
The crooks know that very little attention is given to homeowners getting ripped off. >>
Sad part is if the crooks had damaged YOUR propitty in the process of stealing them, there still would be no effort from the cops on your behalf.
Situation #1... continuous break-ins at my storage units. Perp was former employee that knew where the good stuff was stashed. Set up A Deer Camera and busted him in the act after a couple of visits from the overworked PD.
Situation #2... my housekeeper lifted about 10 Coach Handbags from my wife's closet. My wife (a hoarder in some real sense) didn't notice they were missing for some time.
Alerted, the police said without taking images/writing down the serial number (who knew handbags had serial numbers) we were just SOL. No way to prove anything.
Confronted... the perp said "Oh NOOOO miss Wendy, I wouldn't know what a designer handbag looked like."
Yet a month later the office manager at her employment emailed me a pic of .... tada... a Coach Handbag she brought to work.
Filing a police report creates a paper trail and may help somebody down the road. And it will happen again to somebody... somewhere.
I had a neighbor personally inform all of her Country Club clients of the suspected theft. It was illuminating some of the stories from those clients... of missing jewelry that miraculously re-appeared, missing cloths, missing gift cards.
Her income moonlighting as a cleaning lady has taken a hit as she lost about a half dozen clients. Her managers are in the loop, and someday the will find just cause to dump her.
Pay back can be sweet.
I would find out where the crew is working around town and simply inform the homeowners. Trickle down economics at its best...
If they are drinkers and bar hop... follow them home and call the cops for a DUI stop.
No advice on the dealer except possibly a sting of some type. Lazy and/or overworked police doesn't inspire confidence in this route.
<< <i>"Not so lucky. The slimy coin dealer (he is well known as a crook around here by collectors) informed the police officer that the coins were already sold"
IF the dealer admitted to police that these coins were already sold by him, what's not so lucky about pressuring him with prosecution as an accessory to selling stolen property? At the very least, the dealer should be able to show a record of sale to the buyers of the stolen property. You could also make life very difficult for the landscaper. Craigslist is a great place to expose criminals. >>
+1
If the dealer sold the coins then he has to produce the records of who he sold the coins too and that would be the next direction I would take.
It seems you could tell the thiefs if they point out the dealer they sold the coins you will go after the dealer and they (the thiefs) may not have to pay any restitution.
Very sorry to hear of your loss fishteeth. I have always loved the look of the 1806 and all the other draped bust halves you have posted on these forums.