Whizzed?

cameron12x · May 4, 2013 1:03PM

'Ya think?

Constantine · May 4, 2013 1:06PM

I just saw my reflection!

coppertoning · May 4, 2013 1:41PM

I know nothing of this series, but I would guess it is counterfeit.

tightbudget · May 4, 2013 1:42PM

Fake

cameron12x · May 4, 2013 1:52PM

Do most of the people who sell these types of coins do so knowingly? Or are they just uneducated?

BustHalfBrian · May 4, 2013 2:04PM

It's something...

Whizzed?... No.

Proof?... Nah, rims aren't sharp enough.

Fake?... Mmm, I don't think so.

Gently-wiped prooflike

nwcoast · May 4, 2013 4:08PM

<< It's something...

Whizzed?... No.

Proof?... Nah, rims aren't sharp enough.

Fake?... Mmm, I don't think so.

Gently-wiped prooflike

>>

Not my series, but........

GoldenEyeNumismatics · May 4, 2013 5:23PM

This is just a dipped AU.

tincup · May 4, 2013 7:37PM

Without being able to see in hand, I would say well dipped prooflike, but genuine.

magikbilly · May 4, 2013 8:12PM

That does not look whizzed as noted above.

Eric

ColonelJessup · May 4, 2013 8:58PM

<< Ya think?

>>

... NFW....

Not even in the teeniest tiniest way even close, Paranoia seems a staple of threads here, and I'm no longer surprised at how lemmings are led off the cliff.

<< Without being able to see in hand, I would say well dipped prooflike, but genuine >>

Give the man a cigar. I'd say over-dipped PL, but poster's intent is clear, and the first thorough dipping would leave it more than adequately ruined. The yellowish areas are what's left at the bottom of ED areas after "too-dark" toning is removed and the underlying surfaces recombine with something environmental.

Walkerguy21D · May 4, 2013 9:19PM

I'm also in the 'not whizzed' camp.

magikbilly · May 4, 2013 9:28PM

Hi Col. J,

I was not even sure how to read this thread. This coin bears no trace of whizzing. It's that darn winkie face - does a lot of harm IMHO for new collectors by muddying up meanings, esp with "The Paranoia!" running rampant. I've noticed it too.

Have a great Sunday,
Eric

PerryHall · May 4, 2013 9:47PM

A whizzed coin is not the same as a polished coin. A whizzed coin is created when a drill (similar to a dentist's drill) is used with a small rotating wire brush attachment to create artificial luster on a coin to simulate the appearance of a higher grade mint state coin. The coin in question doesn't appear fake but it does look like a wiped PL coin.

DoubleEagle59 · May 4, 2013 9:50PM

Absolutely not whizzed.

Cleaned/polished, yes.

Frankcoins · May 4, 2013 10:59PM

<< 'Ya think?

>>

No sign of whizzing. And not "wiped" either. Merely a slightly circulated DMPL.

It's really disturbing to me that a lot of collectors only understand the terms whizzed, cleaned, overdipped, polished as undesirable words
on a bodybag or gennie slab, without really understanding what was done to such coins or or what such coins look like.

magikbilly · May 4, 2013 11:23PM

<< 

<< 'Ya think?

>>

No sign of whizzing. And not "wiped" either. Merely a slightly circulated DMPL.

It's really disturbing to me that a lot of collectors only understand the terms whizzed, cleaned, overdipped, polished as undesirable words
on a bodybag or gennie slab, without really understanding what was done to such coins or or what such coins look like. >>

I did not see any polishing etc. either. Just dipped and normal circ marks.

Eric

ColonelJessup · May 5, 2013 12:15AM

<< A whizzed coin is not the same as a polished coin. A whizzed coin is created when a drill (similar to a dentist's drill) is used with a small rotating wire brush attachment to create artificial luster on a coin to simulate the appearance of a higher grade mint state coin...... >>

Mere agreement would seem like an "opinion". This is factual. TY to PH

DoubleEagle59 · May 5, 2013 12:25AM

<< 

<< 'Ya think?

>>

No sign of whizzing. And not "wiped" either. Merely a slightly circulated DMPL.

It's really disturbing to me that a lot of collectors only understand the terms whizzed, cleaned, overdipped, polished as undesirable words
on a bodybag or gennie slab, without really understanding what was done to such coins or or what such coins look like. >>

On second thought, you're right.

I stand corrected.

Very possibly no signs of cleaning and/or polishing.

cameron12x · May 5, 2013 1:06AM

Would light whizzing remove all of the mirror surfaces?

magikbilly · May 5, 2013 1:29AM

Yes, by definition. The smooth reflective surfaces would no longer be smooth. Mirrored surfaces are extremely fragile and it does not take much to disturb them. Even a lightly circ Pr coin has much of the mirror gone, apart from the protected bits.
Back in the 70's I saw, in the back room of a shop that had MS Merc in vats of dip, an S mint DMPL Morgan heated to the point the mirrors went frosted. The coin was dipped first in some smelly sulfuric stuff first, but that did not remove the mirrors. I never knew, or have forgotten, what the point was in heating the coin. Some errant attempt at color I guess.

Eric

ColonelJessup · May 5, 2013 1:38AM

It would be fair to say that all whizzing is polishing, but all polishing is not whizzing.

40 years ago Abe Kossoff warned me about "California proofs", a product of Dremels and dentists' drills. My very first lesson about coin doctoring. Lasers are much preferred nowadays. The TPGs know about this also, and have gotten quite good at detecting it.

magikbilly · May 5, 2013 1:57AM

Indeed. I was speaking of what might be termed old school "whizzing" - meant to create faked luster - what the Col. speaks of was shown here a short while back with a California "proof" Morgan that looked like it had been chromed. Was it an '87? I think it was 62BlueVette (I get the name right?) and a few others who mentioned it by name and other members thought it looked very unnatural.

Eric

sniocsu · May 5, 2013 2:28AM

Not whizzed

magikbilly · May 5, 2013 2:40AM

I found the thread with the other questioned coin I mentioned:

"Cal. Proof" Morgan?

Eric

Frankcoins · May 5, 2013 4:02AM

<< It would be fair to say that all whizzing is polishing, but all polishing is not whizzing. >>

Since polishing is generally understood as bringing to a mirrorlike finish, and whizzing is intended to simulate matte or cartwheel luster, your assertion is incorrect.

<< 40 years ago Abe Kossoff warned me about "California proofs", a product of Dremels and dentists' drills. My very first lesson about coin doctoring. Lasers are much preferred nowadays. The TPGs know about this also, and have gotten quite good at detecting it. >>

Talking numerous times to a restoration jeweler at Haltom's in Fort Worth and CAD-CAM engineers at my old Lockheed-Martin lab, lasers CANNOT be used to
melt hairlines or put any type of brilliant finish on metals used in coinage. This lasering story sounds like misinformation meant to mislead from certain proprietary
secrets involving flash plating, substances containing mercury which can dissolve and redeposit the top layer of gold coins...and none of these are new or involve
lasers. Apparently the snakeskin frosted finish on recent proof dies is made with lasers, and up close looks like a number of tiny electric spark welds.

More numismatic degree programs need to include backgrounds in engineering in chemistry (oh wait -- they're AREN'T any numismatic degree programs -- hint-hint to the ANA which is located on a college campus) - but the same old misinformation keeps coming back like the proverbial bad penny. I have given up on trying to correct people about the supposed grave dangers of acetone or that E-Z-Est coin dip does NOT work by using acid to strip off a layer or metal. (Hint - look at the many research papers on the use of the active ingredient in coin dip on daguerreotypes...it will even tell you why overdipped coins lose luster)

halfhunter · May 5, 2013 4:04AM

So no one thinks that this is an impaired proof?
Just for my own education, how do you tell?

HH

Frankcoins · May 5, 2013 4:08AM

Whizzing means using a Dremel or electric drill and one of THESE

To make a less than mint state coin look like this

Frankcoins · May 5, 2013 4:16AM

<< Would light whizzing remove all of the mirror surfaces? >>

DING DING DING

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!

dcarr · May 5, 2013 4:55AM

Genuine.
Fully polished, then the devices were artificially frosted ("California Cameo").

cameron12x · May 5, 2013 5:14AM

<< Genuine.
Fully polished, then the devices were artificially frosted ("California Cameo"). >>

What is the difference between fully polishing a coin and lightly whizzing one? Any photos to show the difference?

This thread has become quite educational!

dcarr · May 5, 2013 5:39AM

<< 

<< Genuine.
Fully polished, then the devices were artificially frosted ("California Cameo"). >>

What is the difference between fully polishing a coin and lightly whizzing one? Any photos to show the difference?

This thread has become quite educational!

>>

Polishing is performed using buffing techniques that leave behind a smooth shiny finish.
Whizzing is performed using wire brushing techniques leave behind artificial mint luster.

johnny9434 · May 5, 2013 6:00AM

no thanks, pass, to bogus looking and id like it sent right to pcgs before i get it. no, i dont trust feebay

ColonelJessup · May 5, 2013 6:30AM

Wow,

I learn something new every week. I've gotten to the point where products of these techniques just look "off". Gotten sloppy (or remained ignorant) about the technical bases of the results and passed along a bit of folk nomenclature as folk wisdom as currently used by some to essentially say "Run, Forrest, Run".

Great technical exposition, analysis and useful photos.

I don't think I've seen a half-dozen whizzed coins in the last 30 years, though quite a few more polished. None in slabs or the raw auctions I've bought from. I could still argue that whizzing is polishing on a generic linguistic basis, but that would undermine an excellent presentation. Gotta get out more, or maybe not

Thanks

edited to add: My initial response was based on the principle of not FUBAR, just messed with.

keets · May 5, 2013 6:44AM

looking at the sellers other listings I tend to think the coin in question has just been dipped and not whizzed/polished. the latter would leave some sort of telltale signs such as hairlines in the fields and/or tight places which couldn't be reached. also, the notion of artificial frosting doesn't seem likely since it generally leaves residue in the form of overspray or splash spots. JMHO of course.

Whizzed?

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