new Buffalo Nickel variety to watch for - may be a major one

tincup · May 4, 2013 8:41AM

Or at least I have not seen aything like this one yet. So am posting pictures so you experts can see what you think. This coin is a 1929 buffalo nickel, and looks like an abraded die reverse with some significant re-ingraving taking place. The re-ingraving is not just in one area, but is evidenced in many areas, including the mane behind the head, eyelids, throat area, plant on the ground, rear leg, and leg hip area. Also, looks like a nice abraded die leg variety; the front leg is mangled; the rear leg is tapered. The quality of the re-ingraving is not very good; I suspect it was not done by one of the experienced mint workers; or, it was done in a hurry. The photos below show the coin in question; I have also provided another photo of a similar grade 1929 nickel for comparison. Let me know what you think. As a note, I do not see any changes on the obverse.

Note the re-ingraved area behind the head; looks like a studded collar. Also, the eyelids and the greatly changed throat area.

normal 1929

Note the full beard (could have used some retouching). Note the sharp plant on the ground; and the mangled front leg due to abraded die. Also looks like a claw on the front of the second leg; not sure what the intent was here.

normal 1929

Note the tapered rear leg near the lower part. Coin show evidence this was intentionally trimmed.

normal 1929

LanceNewmanOCC · May 4, 2013 8:44AM

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you are sure it is re-engraving and not the strength of the strike or variations from die to die?
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tincup · May 4, 2013 8:59AM

Pretty sure it is not due to strike. When I first found it, that was what I was wondering, but after comparing to many other coins of the same date and other dates, it to not be a question of strike, but the design appears altered. It is most apparent on the mane behind the head; other coins show shagginess in this area, but no 'band' like in this coin with holes in it. Likewise, see if you can find any nickels with the plant showing like in this one; I sure couldn't. Like wise, the rear leg shows a distinct line showing the tapering; this would not be a strike issue.

The obverse shows the typical mushiness expected with a worn die in fine condition, and no sharp enhanced features like those on the back.

Unknown · May 4, 2013 9:37AM

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icsoccer · May 4, 2013 9:40AM

Post Mint ~ IMHO.

tincup · May 4, 2013 10:45AM

Have not ruled out counterfeit. Though I have not seen anything on the obverse that would point to this; in other words, the obverse seems to be normal and legit for a 1929 buffalo nickel. I can see no differences in the obverse from other 1929 nickels. But of course that does not rule out it being a counterfeit; would just mean they did an excellent job on the obverse and not so good of a job on the reverse.

It is definitely die struck. If it is a counterfeit, it is definitely a very good quality one, as other than the areas I have pointed out, it all looks just like one would expect a buffalo nickel to look proportionally and in details and quality of strike. I will try to get a weight on it, but I do not expect any surprises in regards to that.

As for post mint changes, there are no signs of that apparent to me. No tooling marks, etc. And, I would have to question what would possibly be the motive for someone to do this? It is understandable why one would make hobo nickels, or a love token etc., but I do not see a good reason why anyone would spend time to 'touch up' small areas of a nickel. But if that is the case, then I would expect to see a noticeable reduction in expected weight.

davewesen · May 4, 2013 12:33PM

Some of what you are seeing can not be explained by digging deeper into the die - which would be more / deeper device -> higher relief on buffalo.

You are showing bits and pieces, and not entire reverse

- is it possible coin was double struck in collar causing better detail / merging some areas?

- is it possible that someone practiced some engraving / moving metal on coin? - post mint damage

There was a special die in 1927 that was ? chrome plated ? that made some special strikes, could that have been used ?

koynekwest · May 4, 2013 12:41PM

<< <i>Some of what you are seeing can not be explained by digging deeper into the die - which would be more / deeper device -> higher relief on buffalo.

You are showing bits and pieces, and not entire reverse

- is it possible coin was double struck in collar causing better detail / merging some areas?

- is it possible that someone practiced some engraving / moving metal on coin? - post mint damage

There was a special die in 1927 that was ? chrome plated ? that made some special strikes, could that have been used ? >>

That die was uses to strike the specimen coins known from that year.

I can't quite tell what's going on with the subject coin.

Shamika · May 6, 2013 10:21AM

Early die state?

AMRC · May 6, 2013 11:28AM

To be eligible to be considered a variety you have to have more than one. I recommend you keep searching until you find another. Having said that this coin has way too much abrasion that is not what I would call normal wear and tear. Which makes me think the comments around post-mint are the most probable.

tincup · May 6, 2013 12:12PM

I did get a weight on it... the coin weighs 5.06 grams. This would seem to be within expected range for a nickel but on the higher side; weighing some other circulated buffalos grading good to F+ I had a range of between 4.82 to 5.06 grams. Although not definitive, I would think this would point to it not being post mint alterations, which would remove metal from the planchet and I would then expect a lower weight. Or, perhaps it would not make that much difference in the weight.

I agree that there is an amount of heavier abrasion apparent, most of it is under the buffalo head but it is also under the body of the buffalo, and does seem to be kind of odd. The rest of the coin does not seem to be as heavily abraded as the area below the buffalo, but more what one would expect with a VG-F coin that has been in circulation.

Right now I believe it to be either a fairly good counterfeit, or re-ingraved die. I will try to get a couple more pictures posted showing the entire obverse and reverse, that may help in better determining what is going on with the coin.

I guess that if it is a counterfeit, there is probably another one out there somewhere! Thanks all, for the opinions and info....

LanceNewmanOCC · May 6, 2013 12:42PM

.
while i am not on compelled to get on board with this one, yet

i will say i support the study and hard work

.

new Buffalo Nickel variety to watch for - may be a major one

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