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Tell me this isn't blatant shill bidding...
coinpictures
Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭
Ugh.
http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p2047675.l2565&rt=nc&item=161013146062
Low-feedback bidder running up the bid incrementally, then posts a nuclear bid to find where the high-bidder's max is, retracts it, and posts a subsequent bid to push up the high bidder just enough.
http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p2047675.l2565&rt=nc&item=161013146062
Low-feedback bidder running up the bid incrementally, then posts a nuclear bid to find where the high-bidder's max is, retracts it, and posts a subsequent bid to push up the high bidder just enough.
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1030.00 - just a case of hitting too many zeros. best guess is the $1030 was his max.
Back in my early ebay days I would also bid up in small increments trying to be the
high bidder. Now I just put in my max bid= If I get it good, If I don't, then somebody was
just willing to pay more than me.
i would concur except the incremental bidder seemingly pushed the person that didn't win. coincidence? maybe.
this also could be a situation where someone wanted the coin for a specific amount and "accidentally" put in the high bid to find out the number and then decided it was too much to go further. still against policy but not shilling.
it is also possible there is nothing awry. i have bidding history that looks like this where some random bidder with no other bids comes in and wins as well as incremental bidding. it is rather scarce though. say r6+
lets see what the bidding activity with this seller says:
the top 3 bidders:
winner - no activity with this seller (other than this win) - 10 retractions
second - 2 bids with seller - no retractions
shill? - 86% activity with this seller - 2 retractions 6 months, one on this auction -
perhaps a shill brought in just for this high dollar item?
i think if i were ebay, i'd investigate it a bit. if the shill only bids on 1 or 2-4 items of higher dollar value compared to the rest of the items, then it will be hard to prove.
could be a multi-shill situation where one pushes incrementally and one comes in to finish the job. and if the top shill wins, the item is relisted and the account agree to cancel transaction.
there are some really tricky ways around the system and i won't mention the others i've seen/uncovered but a couple surprised me how hard to prove and how easy to get away with they are.
that's my take and i didn't cover all the possibilities.
you can always report and just say there is suspicious activity. i report items for questionable authenticity and state that the ccw is needed to make a decision. sometimes the images are just too poor to go one way or another but some action must be taken to prevent chaos within the system and/or the selling of a counterfeit.
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<< <i>There's allot of blatant shill bidding going on, but eBay no longer cares to resolve those problems with their new hidden identities of bidders. I pointed out several auction over the past few months where it was obvious and eBay did nothing to fix it. >>
i pointed one out recently as well that was 100% shilling and the seller listed the items several more times and the same account won the item and i haven't seen anything being done despite my phone calls and multiple reports. that one really frustrated me.
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<< <i>I think it was just a simple mistake - bids 10300 = retracts it and immediately bids
1030.00 - just a case of hitting too many zeros. best guess is the $1030 was his max.
Back in my early ebay days I would also bid up in small increments trying to be the
high bidder. Now I just put in my max bid= If I get it good, If I don't, then somebody was
just willing to pay more than me. >>
I suspect he was being devious and tried to make it look like an innocent mistake.
Lance.
they know it when they see it.
<< <i>I think it was just a simple mistake - bids 10300 = retracts it and immediately bids
1030.00 - just a case of hitting too many zeros. best guess is the $1030 was his max.
Back in my early ebay days I would also bid up in small increments trying to be the
high bidder. Now I just put in my max bid= If I get it good, If I don't, then somebody was
just willing to pay more than me. >>
"Simple mistake".....not as likely, because when the questioned bidder put in the nuclear bid, it would show that the high bid is now his at "$1156.09" (or a little higher).
So he knew what the other bidder's max was ($1156.09), then later to only bid $1030, so he knew he would be shy of the other bidder's max.......fishy.....
......I collect old stuff......
I say this because of seller style and history
- they have BINs and auction, that start high enough to be their reserve
-- many of their auctions do not open at their high start
--- they have no examples in their history of 'odd' bidding history on a sold item
---- there is no shown / known example of the odd bidder actually winning anything from seller
When you accuse a seller of blatant shill bidding, you are saying that it is obvious how they do it and they do it often
The 3 bidders in this auction did things I would not do, but that is not the sellers fault
bidder 1(578) hits opening a couple days after listing - possibly to protect seller from 'sold offsite' cancellation or to mark for later evaluation by putting in their bidding list
bidder 1 returns 3 days later and 4 3/4hrs before close, places the 2nd bid in auction at $1156.09
bidder 2 (9) shows up 45 minutes to close, and starts bidding - they keep bidding, higher and higher hoping to get high bid - then they get it after 13 trys.
bidder 2 either does not know how to retract or does not notice it for 10 miinutes. They meant to bid 1030, but it shows 10300 - which puts them at high bid now, but exposes them to much higher bid if any more bidders....
they cancel their bid and put back in their 1030
bidder 3 (261) even after seeing all of this and current bid at 1055, places their max bid with 4 1/2 minutes to close. Their max bid was 1165 because the is not a full increment above the previous max of 1156.09
for the last 4 1/2 minutes no one else wants to bid the next increment (1190) and bidder 3 wins it.
If you have never or rarely sold, bidder 2 seems like an obvious shill - but much more likely just inexperienced bidders who show up on eBay all the time. If you have sold on eBay, you see bidders like this, and you know it is not you doing it...
Low-feedback bidder running up the bid incrementally, then posts a nuclear bid to find where the high-bidder's max is, retracts it, and posts a subsequent bid to push up the high bidder just enough.
what does this mean? just enough? - if they were trying to mess with bidder 1, why did they not bid to 1150?
I would not bid like any of these 3 bidders, but that does not make them wrong or shills.....
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>This is NOT blatant shill bidding
q]
.....You are probably right, likely a new Ebay bidder.........but why would they put a corrected bid of $1030, even after they knew it would not be high enough ( once they saw what the other bidder's max was)? .......he probably was not paying that close attention.
I have must have too much free time to look into this this much!!!.....
......I collect old stuff......
<< <i>This is NOT blatant shill bidding
I say this because of seller style and history
- they have BINs and auction, that start high enough to be their reserve
-- many of their auctions do not open at their high start
--- they have no examples in their history of 'odd' bidding history on a sold item
---- there is no shown / known example of the odd bidder actually winning anything from seller
When you accuse a seller of blatant shill bidding, you are saying that it is obvious how they do it and they do it often
The 3 bidders in this auction did things I would not do, but that is not the sellers fault
bidder 1(578) hits opening a couple days after listing - possibly to protect seller from 'sold offsite' cancellation or to mark for later evaluation by putting in their bidding list
bidder 1 returns 3 days later and 4 3/4hrs before close, places the 2nd bid in auction at $1156.09
bidder 2 (9) shows up 45 minutes to close, and starts bidding - they keep bidding, higher and higher hoping to get high bid - then they get it after 13 trys.
bidder 2 either does not know how to retract or does not notice it for 10 miinutes. They meant to bid 1030, but it shows 10300 - which puts them at high bid now, but exposes them to much higher bid if any more bidders....
they cancel their bid and put back in their 1030
bidder 3 (261) even after seeing all of this and current bid at 1055, places their max bid with 4 1/2 minutes to close. Their max bid was 1165 because the is not a full increment above the previous max of 1156.09
for the last 4 1/2 minutes no one else wants to bid the next increment (1190) and bidder 3 wins it.
If you have never or rarely sold, bidder 2 seems like an obvious shill - but much more likely just inexperienced bidders who show up on eBay all the time. If you have sold on eBay, you see bidders like this, and you know it is not you doing it...
Low-feedback bidder running up the bid incrementally, then posts a nuclear bid to find where the high-bidder's max is, retracts it, and posts a subsequent bid to push up the high bidder just enough.
what does this mean? just enough? - if they were trying to mess with bidder 1, why did they not bid to 1150?
I would not bid like any of these 3 bidders, but that does not make them wrong or shills..... >>
I agree with this assessment. He may have been seeking out the high bid with the bid of 10300. He found it and figured that just in case the high bidder retracts his bid he would bid his max of $1030.
Governments can print currency. Only the people can print faith in it — and they’re running low on ink.
But then, neither the winning bidder nor the under bidder had anybody twisting their arms to key in those numbers. The underbidder was willing to pay upto $1,156.09 and the winning bidder knew full well what s/he was getting into by placing the winning bid a full 4 minutes before the listing ended.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>hidden identities of bidders >>
Is there a way to find the idenity of an ebay bidder?
<< <i>
<< <i>hidden identities of bidders >>
Is there a way to find the idenity of an ebay bidder? >>
Wait until one of the two parties leaves feedback for the item that can be viewed from the known seller's account, unless of course it is a "private" listing. Most self shillers avoid leaving any feedback from either direction.
Governments can print currency. Only the people can print faith in it — and they’re running low on ink.