most sophisticated ebay coin scam ever?

derryb · April 13, 2013 1:23PM

Anyone know the source of his pics? Couldn't find them in current or previous listings. I have reported a similar coin, same grade, before and was able to identify the legitimate ebay seller he stole them from.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Found 'em. Oh, he's good! After having his earlier auction removed and being booted from ebay he's back under a different user name and has gotten a lot smarter. His mistake was using the same coin.

Heritage auction pics from January:

Seller's pics from ebay, lightened up a bit by the seller:

Note that it's the same coin in both sets of pics (there's a tell on the reverse, spot near rim at 6 o'clock and also a spot on the scales on the reverse label). Also note that the ebay seller has either photoshopped in a label with a different last two digits in the S/N or just changed the number with photoshop. Here's where it gets really interesting. Both S/N's are valid for the coin, year and grade. However a view of NGCs site for the seller's serial number shows a different 1907 High relief.

NGC's coin pics for the seller's S/N do not match pics of seller's coin

Appears to be a very slick ebay scammer with in-depth coin grading and TPG knowledge. Reported to ebay "sellers coin pictures do not match NGC S/N verification site for this coin. Seller appears to have photoshopped or modified an NGC label for coin number 3170169-009 into slabbed photo of actual coin number 3170169-010. Sellers pictures of coin 3170169-010 were taken from Heritage auction at site: http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?hdnJumpToLot=1&saleNo=1181 &lotNo=5960&x=0&y=0#91919191693 before he changed the S/N in his picture. Sophisticated effort on part of seller to avoid detection."

AUandAG · April 13, 2013 3:03PM

Shhhhhhh, I'm the high bidder.

bob

Davideo · April 13, 2013 3:33PM

Wow. How do you find these things?

Coinflip · April 13, 2013 3:35PM

Cheers awesome jobby , great observations and detective work

WoodenJefferson · April 13, 2013 3:42PM

What is that, about a $130,000-$140,000 coin? You'd think they would try maybe a $15k coin....but talk about reaching for the moon!

GrumpyEd · April 13, 2013 5:26PM

I'm not sure how his scam would ever work.
He's a 0 feedback seller.
Wouldn't ebay hold the funds until it all clears with good feedback?

There must be some other trick being used to get money out of the deal.

Kove · April 13, 2013 6:06PM

This post highlights the fact that NGC's long-standing practice of photographing every coin and including the image with their cert verification is a great innovation.

I really wish PCGS would match what their competition is doing with these images. This post is just one of many instances these days where it would be helpful to see what the coin and slab looked like when it left PCGS.

Unknown · April 13, 2013 6:15PM

This content has been removed.

derryb · April 13, 2013 10:02PM

<< I'm not sure how his scam would ever work.
He's a 0 feedback seller.
Wouldn't ebay hold the funds until it all clears with good feedback?

There must be some other trick being used to get money out of the deal. >>

Yep, he'd never see the funds from paypal, Probably hoping for an off ebay offer from a potential buyer. Anyone care to try? Keep in mind that ebay will eventually be reading his messages.

With his knowledge of heritage and verification sites I wonder if he's a reader here.

derryb · April 13, 2013 10:07PM

<< This post highlights the fact that NGC's long-standing practice of photographing every coin and including the image with their cert verification is a great innovation.

I really wish PCGS would match what their competition is doing with these images. This post is just one of many instances these days where it would be helpful to see what the coin and slab looked like when it left PCGS. >>

I believe NGC only recently started imaging every coin for the verification page. I have found many modern coins (ASEs as recent as 2008) that were not imaged on their verification site. The pronged holder for both of these coins tells us they were graded in the not too far distant past and their serial numbers tells us they were in the same submission. I would call owning two of these in this grade a definite hoard.

I checked out all the coins submitted with this grading order and these are some serious coins, about $400K worth. Which one of you guys made this submission?

1874 $1 gold MS67
1885 $1 gold MS67
1856 $3 gold MS65
1903S $5 liberty MS66
1908 $5 liberty MS66
1901S $10 liberty MS66
1907 $10 indian MS67
1926 $10 inding MS66
(2) 1907 $20 HR flat rim MS66
1907 $20 HR wire rim PF66

coindeuce · April 14, 2013 12:58AM

I would expect that the list above was submitted by one of the major auction houses. The list of individual collectors likely to have this group in possession would be very short.

AUandAG · April 14, 2013 3:14AM

<< Shall we, ah, run it up? >>

UP, UP, UP WE GO!

bob

coindeuce · April 14, 2013 3:19AM

I think it would be a real treat to see a Zeeero FB bidder take the lead.

LindeDad · April 14, 2013 3:24AM

Looks like eBay will lose about $250.00 also in FVF. Anyone this good covered that to I would think.

derryb · April 14, 2013 3:25AM

<< I think it would be a real treat to see a Zeeero FB bidder take the lead.

>>

or someone open a new account just to bid 1,000,000 and then not pay.

Judith usually starts nuking auctions on Sunday night after a weekend off. I think she works night shift. I suspect she will want to forwad this one on to her "coin expert" group which may not get results until after auction ends.

LanceNewmanOCC · April 14, 2013 3:32AM

<< I'm not sure how his scam would ever work.
He's a 0 feedback seller.
Wouldn't ebay hold the funds until it all clears with good feedback?

There must be some other trick being used to get money out of the deal. >>

my understanding (and it may be incorrect) is that while new seller's or seller's with withdrawal limits cannot get the funds as easy, they can however spend the money on stuff to order and then just sell the stuff they get in the mail? or maybe buy something for someone else and they would give the person like 90% of the value in cash or something, somewhat like money laundering. i'm sure there are a few other creative solutions as well. maybe they do it just to be a pain in the ass. wouldn't be the first time. people do things to cause a problem because they hate their life, are horrifically insecure, strung out on drugs, maybe even for the challenge, just plain uneducated etc the reasons go on for quite a while. never underestimate the desire for a lot of people to just cause others pain and hardship. been like that ever since humans have walked the face of this earth.
.

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD · April 14, 2013 3:34AM

...I'm pretty sure the intention of this here scam is not to rip someone off, but rather to "wash" $150,000 or so. No coin will exchange hands, just funds. My 2c

Erik

AUandAG · April 14, 2013 4:21AM

Ah ha, back on top once again!
bob

johnny9434 · April 14, 2013 4:51AM

<< Shall we, ah, run it up? >>

coool, moon money

derryb · April 14, 2013 4:59AM

<< Ah ha, back on top once again!
bob

>>

Pay him with bitcoins.

Type2 · April 14, 2013 5:08AM

<< What is that, about a $130,000-$140,000 coin? You'd think they would try maybe a $15k coin....but talk about reaching for the moon! >>

It only take one time with a big ticket item and with a small ticket item you will need to do it many times. He will be back he is just geting started that is why you cant tell it all on this board we are not the only one's looking at it, Good eye keep it going.

derryb · April 15, 2013 1:38AM

Did anyone here win the auction?

AUandAG · April 15, 2013 2:59AM

<< Did anyone here win the auction? >>

Underbidder here. Would also like to know who was the winner!

bob

messydesk · April 15, 2013 3:22AM

It would be interesting* if eBay offered a new service for license fee collection. They already have all the sellers' credit card numbers. If you wanted to make a claim on a stolen picture, eBay would put a hold on the violator's credit card for your licensing fee, and if you could prove ownership of the image and the person using it couldn't prove he has a license to use it, you'd collect. eBay, being eBay, would take a nominal cut of your fee. If you can't prove ownership or the person using it produces proof of a license, you pay a fee.

* (By "interesting" I do not mean it would be a good idea, merely interesting.)

AUandAG · April 15, 2013 4:06AM

Just got to thinking, is the selling still owing $250 FV fee if he does not ship?

bob

coindeuce · April 15, 2013 4:08AM

The seller obviously ended the listing early. The motivation for that may never be known. Could have been anything from cold feet, to a higher offer off of eBay. Let's hope eBay decides to nuke the listing and banish the current seller, if they can establish the history of this seller.

AUandAG · April 15, 2013 3:15PM

<< The seller obviously ended the listing early. The motivation for that may never be known. Could have been anything from cold feet, to a higher offer off of eBay. Let's hope eBay decides to nuke the listing and banish the current seller, if they can establish the history of this seller. >>

This is weird...did he really end it early? IF so, then why did I get a second chance offer from him? Anybody else get the 2nd chance?:

eBay sent this message to Bob lindstrom (bobandlinda1).
Your registered name is included to show this message originated from eBay. Learn more.
You've received a Second Chance Offer

Dear Bob lindstrom (bobandlinda1),

You've been given a second chance to buy 1907 $20 GOLD ST GAUDENS DOUBLE EAGLE HIGH RELIEF NGC MS66, which you placed a bid on for $ 55,001.00 on Apr 15, 2013 . To purchase this item, reply to this email or just contact the seller at: jrengineer70@gmail.com

1907 $20 GOLD ST GAUDENS DOUBLE EAGLE HIGH RELIEF NGC MS66
Price:
$ 55,001.00
Seller:
Seller E-mail:
dl2rs0nn (0)
jrengineer70@gmail.com
Ask Seller A Question

yosclimber · April 15, 2013 5:21PM

"Second chance offers" can be scams where the person never had the coin in the first place,
and then offers to sell it to many buyers off of ebay.

Frankcoins · April 15, 2013 5:33PM

I am the winner! The seller says I can pay $10,000 by Paypal, and the rest after I receive the coin.

dl2rs0nn sent a message about 1907 $20 GOLD ST GAUDENS DOUBLE EAGLE HIGH RELIEF NGC MS66 #321107333875

From: dl2rs0nn

Sent: Apr-15-13 12:28 PM

Dear frankcoins,

Hi,

I have talked to PayPal and they said that the transaction limit is
$10,000.00.
If you agree you can send me $10,000.00 by PayPal and the rest
of the money after you inspect the item by check.

Thanks!

-dl2rs0nn

Jobessi · April 15, 2013 8:32PM

Ha!

Cougar1978 · April 15, 2013 9:01PM

How does a seller with zero FB score get that kinda high bid anyhow?

taxmad · April 15, 2013 11:21PM

I got a Second Chance Offer! I am so torn as I believe $74,398 is a very reasonable price - but I think he is desperate and will take less. I will see if he will accept a money order for $70,000. I got one in the mail as payment for the $100 dresser I listed on Craigslist. I am sure the money order is good - right?

BAJJERFAN · April 16, 2013 12:19AM

<< 

<< This post highlights the fact that NGC's long-standing practice of photographing every coin and including the image with their cert verification is a great innovation.

I really wish PCGS would match what their competition is doing with these images. This post is just one of many instances these days where it would be helpful to see what the coin and slab looked like when it left PCGS. >>

I believe NGC only recently started imaging every coin for the verification page. I have found many modern coins (ASEs as recent as 2008) that were not imaged on their verification site. The pronged holder for both of these coins tells us they were graded in the not too far distant past and their serial numbers tells us they were in the same submission. I would call owning two of these in this grade a definite hoard.

>>

Why would NGC [or any TPG for that matter] squander resources taking pics of common ms69 ASEs?

messydesk · April 16, 2013 12:43AM

<< I am the winner! The seller says I can pay $10,000 by Paypal, and the rest after I receive the coin. >>

So assuming the seller and PayPal account are both domestic, what course of action will get this seller a knock on his door and some nice bracelets? Seems as though if you contact PayPal, they'll probably just nuke the account and wash their hands of it.

most sophisticated ebay coin scam ever?

Comments

Leave a Comment