Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Were peoples bitcoin balances destroyed? Or the value of a bitcoin against the dollar dropped?
Bitcoin is an alternate currency not an investment. It was around 30 dollars to the bitcoin about 8 weeks ago . I don't think anyone who turned dollars into bitcoins at that point is angry.
Take a step back and stop looking at it as an investment and just treat it as an alternate currency and relax.
Even if the system fails so what? Our fiat currency is going to fail just like 599 others that have done that before.
I think our governments and central banks feel threatened by bitcoin and thats reason enough for its existence just so we can watch how they react to it.
Good starting question, Bronco. I hear what you are saying. I personally thought at first it was supposed to be a currency alternative. But then I saw the climbing value and price swings (and the hacks) and that if you lose your token on your computer, your coins are lost. And I never understood on what its based on. So, since then, I considered it a chancy type thing. Currency value moves but not like that, so for me I would not consider using them or putting any money into their purchase. In my view of it, its a speculative investment, not "a relatively stable purchasing currency." Things could go good, very good, wrong, or very wrong at any given day. If you obtained them when high, and it drops, then you lose the buying power. If something can toppel it so easily, it needs some time and maturity before I consider it a currency I would trust. I'd expect more of this. Granted that I do not know how it is used as a purchasing function.
<< <i>Were peoples bitcoin balances destroyed? Or the value of a bitcoin against the dollar dropped? Bitcoin is an alternate currency not an investment. It was around 30 dollars to the bitcoin about 8 weeks ago . I don't think anyone who turned dollars into bitcoins at that point is angry. Take a step back and stop looking at it as an investment and just treat it as an alternate currency and relax. Even if the system fails so what? Our fiat currency is going to fail just like 599 others that have done that before. I think our governments and central banks feel threatened by bitcoin and thats reason enough for its existence just so we can watch how they react to it. >>
<< <i>Our fiat currency is going to fail just like 599 others that have done that before. >>
Really? Very unlikely, in my opinion, and not in our life time. I also realize that your above commend comes straight out of a Doomsayer mindset. 599 currencies that failed? I can only think of 7 from so "called industrialized countries" that failed (3d world currency's are always failing, but the fiat fiat currency was seldom the primary cause of failure) in the last 60 years and one was WWII related. True, during the 1920th we had the Weimar Republic that failed, but the underlying failure was do to numerous reasons, fiat currency being just one of them.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< <i>Our fiat currency is going to fail just like 599 others that have done that before. >>
...599 currencies that failed? I can only think of 7 from so "called industrialized countries" that failed (3d world currency's are always failing, but the fiat fiat currency was seldom the primary cause of failure) in the last 60 years and one was WWII related. True, during the 1920th we had the Weimar Republic that failed, but the underlying failure was do to numerous reasons, fiat currency being just one of them. >>
I could not find 599 either but I believe that was an arbitrary number, the fact is currencies fail right?
Good grief...the majority on your list are not fiat related nor less than 60 years old or from Industrialized countries still in existence. I'm sure you can dig up thousands of currency's that are no longer with us since antiquity.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< <i>Good grief...the majority on your list are not fiat related nor less than 60 years old or from Industrialized countries still in existence. I'm sure you can dig up thousands of currency's that are no longer with us since antiquity. >>
That was the original point. Fiat currencies never survive. They may reinvent themselves or do numerous devaluations along the way. But, eventually they all fail. The US currency has had several iterations. One backed/redeemable by precious metals, then redeemable for other paper (bearer on demand), and today...not redeemable for anything. A long fiat currency life is approx 80-120 years.
Never understood this bitcoin thing. To me it just felt like another Ponzi play. Those in first make out.
<< <i>Good grief...the majority on your list are not fiat related nor less than 60 years old or from Industrialized countries still in existence. I'm sure you can dig up thousands of currency's that are no longer with us since antiquity. >>
That was the original point. Fiat currencies never survive. They may reinvent themselves or do numerous devaluations along the way. But, eventually they all fail. The US currency has had several iterations. One backed/redeemable by precious metals, then redeemable for other paper (bearer on demand), and today...not redeemable for anything. A long fiat currency life is approx 80-120 years.
Never understood this bitcoin thing. To me it just felt like another Ponzi play. Those in first make out. >>
Please list those countries that are still on the gold standard. If the gold standard was such a utopian marvel, why is it no longer in existence? Your fiat currency is "redeemable" in all the items that your "heart desires," including gold. All you have to do is: buy it. I fully agree, that bidcoin appears nothing buy a Ponzi sheme. Did Bernie think that one up to?
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
What other precious material(s) are stored in those central bank vaults other than gold? I can't think of any. The world no longer redeems gold for fiat because it is far too valuable. It is hoarded by the citizens of European and Asian nations. Yes, technically not a "complete" gold standard on paper. But the fact that 109 nations/central banks report gold holdings suggest there is a gold standard in play, even if mostly symbolic. FRN's are symbolic as well. They represent debt that to date the US govt says it will cover. Fiat currency is no monetary standard. There's no "standards" at all. There have times in recent history when one's fiat currency couldn't buy them hardly anything, and certainly not gold. The dollar has been refused at times around the world. So you couldn't whip out your Bens and expect to buy what you wanted. You'd have had to first convert to the local currency at a participating bank or trade into gold/silver.
The bottom line is that no matter how much fiat currency you could muster up, you couldn't go out and buy the world's gold supply of 165,000 tonnes of gold. The reverse is quite true however. Sure seems like a gold standard to me. The CB's shroud their gold dealings with one another in great secrecy, even to the point of double counting gold leases and gold swaps. Why would they be so careful if there was not some sort of gold standard currently in play? There is as much of a gold standard in play today between central banks as there was during the peak of the gold standard from 1900-1906. But, call it anything you like. When CB's empty their vaults of the $1.6 TRILL in gold and replace it with an additional $1.6 in printed paper money, then I would concede there is no longer a gold "standard." The BLS has revamped the CPI numerous times since 1983 to the point that we just don't have any significant inflation any more....because the index says so. But, we're all smart enough to know that changing definitions doesn't change reality. Similarly, stating we have no formal gold standard as existed prior to August 15, 1971 doesn't mean a "gold standard" doesn't exist. It was "wished" away over 40 yrs ago, but the barbarous relic is still very alive in CB vaults. Gold's fiat redeemability was taken away, not it's other standards.
Gold's primary roles during its gold standard hey day was to act as circulating money, serve as bank reserves, and be a final debt extinguisher. The debt extinguisher (terminator) and reserve roles are still around today. Those are 2/3 of the old gold standard. Paper or digi-money doesn't extinguish debts. They only transfer who holds the debt. The debt never goes away....it only increases. Gold's reserve role is being strengthened with Basil 3 defining gold as a tier 1 asset. That's a return to one of gold's orig standards.
No one ever claimed that the gold standard was a utopian marvel. But it is true that both England and the USA's best growing centuries came when they were on gold standards and the rest of the world beat feet to our shores. Like any other standard, the gold standard could be cheated upon. And the CB's did just that. As soon as WW1 kicked in the FED effectively jettisoned the gold standard so that they could print money to fund the war. It was never brought back to its full standard as the real bills doctrine was never reinstituted. There was plenty of cheating on the gold standard occuring in the 19th century too. As long as there are bankers as well as "regulators" who watch the bankers...there will be cheating....regardless of the standards applied.
<< <i>Our fiat currency is going to fail just like 599 others that have done that before. >>
Really? Very unlikely, in my opinion, and not in our life time. I also realize that your above commend comes straight out of a Doomsayer mindset. 599 currencies that failed? I can only think of 7 from so "called industrialized countries" that failed (3d world currency's are always failing, but the fiat fiat currency was seldom the primary cause of failure) in the last 60 years and one was WWII related. True, during the 1920th we had the Weimar Republic that failed, but the underlying failure was do to numerous reasons, fiat currency being just one of them. >>
There are several posters here that think the US Dollar is going to "fail" ... they will go their graves certain of it, and will be still be just as wrong about it then as they are today
... and they are surely already busy writing that "it has already "failed" (by their definition which is not shared by anyone with a dollar to spend) or that it is "in the process of "failing" (which will be accompanied by skewed graphs and cute photoshopped pictures) to "prove" their point using their definitions of the terms.
Millions (billions?) of people in Eastern Europe, Latin America and Asia can personally relate to the effects of their local currency devaluations, to the people who personally lived through the currency devaluation it is a different perspective and for the half of the world gold is still money
It is also naive to think that dollar/euro/pound did not lose their purchasing power over the decades but more likely one oz of gold can buy you comparable amount of gas, bread or chicken legs in then and now in the country of your choice.
I'm on record that the dollar will be removed as the world trading currency and it will be within the next 10 years, quite possibly within 5 years. It is in the failing stages as the "petrodollar."
Under management of the FED since 1913, the dollar itself has failed to keep its value, losing more and more value over time. This loss of purchasing power is equivelent to continually adding zeros to it. I call that a failure. At least Zimbabweans can actually see their added zeros.
It is already a domestic failure. It will be around as long as the FED has the power to create it; the fact that they have to keep creating record numbers of dollars has nothing to do with a growing economy and everything to do with a failing dollar. It has failed to maintain domestic purchasing power or to protect wealth, savings or retirements. Were it not for law making it the only acceptable legal tender it would have gone by the wayside years ago.
Graphs and pics not necessary to illustrate these truths. Any rational person that has been saving or spending dollars for more than ten years experiences the consequences of dollar failure and dollar management failure first hand.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
my grandmother lived and worked in communist Poland for 40+ years, and when she retired -- during a period of massive inflation in the late 1980s and early 1990s -- her monthly pension check was worth about 25 or 30 U.S. dollars. the government around 1995 eventually issued a new currency which basically shaved six zeros off the old one. so no, inflation is not just some hypothetical thing; it's the result of economic mismanagement. we're not on the scale of a communist country, but we've had plenty of economic mismanagement in the U.S. and eventually it'll be reflecting in the trashing of the value of our currency.
"Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
The US dollar index almost ensures that the dollar will look stable, all the while it is losing purchasing power. This neat trick is accomplished by comparing the dollar to half a dozen other fiat currencies that are also falling in purchasing power. The sleight of hand here is the average guy doesn't realize that the USDX is a relative index and not an absolute one. A steady USDX of .80 to .83 seems like a good thing. But, it doesn't address whether its net purchasing power is falling....and neither does the current CPI.
By any measure of valuation, all the currencies of the 20th century have been major failures. That's why the govts had them.
The dollar in name will still exist decades from now. But in that time it will be reworked, devalued and distorted such that it will resemble nothing like today's dollar. Fiat currencies are used to transfer wealth from the poor to the rich. That's why they exist and are so popular with govts.
<< <i>Yes, technically not a "complete" gold standard on paper. But the fact that 109 nations/central banks report gold holdings suggest there is a gold standard in play, even if mostly symbolic >>
RR...not mostly symbolic, but 100% symbolic. Again, there is not one nation that is currently under a "gold standard." In your line of thought, it appears, that anyone who owns gold is on a symbolic gold standard? To me, it's just another investment, albeit that does not pay any dividends.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
Fiat currencies are used to transfer wealth from the poor to the rich. That's why they exist
So, let me get this line of thinking straight...
1. Poor people have wealth that is available for transfer
2. The reason fiat currencies exist ( primary reason, we assume? or do you mean "only" reason?) is to take this wealth the poor have and move it over to the rich. (are these the "banksters", or do you mean all wealthy people like you and me? Is someone a "bankster" simply because they are not poor?)
3. Non-fiat currencies, presumably, exist for other reasons that serve society well
3. We conclude that this, Fiat Currency, is the primary reason poor people are poor, and rich people are rich?
Not the way the rich and the poor spend their time, the amount of education they receive, or the decisions they make in life, nor the random happenstance of accidents of time, or the vagaries of place and circumstance, nor any of the other institutions of humanity, it's evil Fiat Currency that is the primary problem?
Is this what you are saying?
And therefore it follows that Gold, and the Gold Standard are the (primary, or is it only only?) cure for this problem? (lots of poor people and fewer rich people, and the unfair taking of the wealth, which of course is measured in this very same " fiat currency" that's so reviled, from the poor and giving it to the rich)
And if it weren't for that dastardly "fiat currency" ( that everyone happens to measure productive effort and material value with), then we would be living in a Utopia, where everyone had the same amount of (non-"fiat") money?
Is that about it? Your comments welcome and encouraged.
(edited for punctuation, spelling, and to add paragraphs for easier reading and responding to)
<< <i>Fiat currencies are used to transfer wealth from the poor to the rich. That's why they exist
So, let me get this line of thinking straight...
1. Poor people have wealth that is available for transfer
2. The reason fiat currencies exist ( primary reason, we assume? or do you mean "only" reason?) is to take this wealth the poor have and move it over to the rich. (are these the "banksters", or do you mean all wealthy people like you and me? Is someone a "bankster" simply because they are not poor?)
3. Non-fiat currencies, presumably, exist for other reasons that serve society well
3. We conclude that this, Fiat Currency, is the primary reason poor people are poor, and rich people are rich?
Not the way the rich and the poor spend their time, the amount of education they receive, or the decisions they make in life, nor the random happenstance of accidents of time, or the vagaries of place and circumstance, nor any of the other institutions of humanity, it's evil Fiat Currency that is the primary problem?
Is this what you are saying?
And therefore it follows that Gold, and the Gold Standard are the (primary, or is it only only?) cure for this problem? (lots of poor people and fewer rich people, and the unfair taking of the wealth, which of course is measured in this very same " fiat currency" that's so reviled, from the poor and giving it to the rich)
And if it weren't for that dastardly "fiat currency" ( that everyone happens to measure productive effort and material value with), then we would be living in a Utopia, where everyone had the same amount of (non-"fiat") money?
Is that about it? Your comments welcome and encouraged.
(edited for punctuation, spelling, and to add paragraphs for easier reading and responding to) >>
<< <i> RR...not mostly symbolic, but 100% symbolic. Again, there is not one nation that is currently under a "gold standard." In your line of thought, it appears, that anyone who owns gold is on a symbolic gold standard? To me, it's just another investment, albeit that does not pay any dividends. >>
It's far from 100% symbolic with 31,000 tonnes of it sitting in central bank vaults....and growing as the BRICS continue to add to supplies. China is adding on the order of 500-1000 tonnes per year. Symbolic? They are spending real Yuan, dollars, and TBonds to buy that production. Anyone who owns gold is not on a gold standard, but merely protecting or hedging themselves from a monetary system w/o standards. But if you're wealthy enough to own 1 tonne or more of gold to place you equal to or higher than the 108th country on that gold list, and it represents at least 5% of your total wealth, then I'll concede you are on your own gold standard.
The University of Texas would therefore qualify as being on a gold standard with $1 BILL in gold representing 5% of their total portfolio. The downside is that the gold is vaulted in NY under the watchful eyes of HSBC. Yeah, the same guys that run the GLD gold ETF. Univ of Texas purchased the gold by April 2011 when gold was still under $1500/oz. If it were me I'd find another vault somewhere in Texas not owned by one of the too-big-to-jail banks.
For Baley:
1. Yes, the banks will take whatever money the middle class and poor people can muster. They aren't choosy.
2. Yes, the reason for fiat currencies is to fleece the public and transfer it to the elite. This also allows the govt to gain further control of their lives as their dependency on govt increases. A constant downward cycle. The elite aren't you and I unless you happen to have >9 figure wealth.
3. There are presently no non-fiat currencies. Gold is the closest thing though. But, gold is no fix for this ailing system.
4. Yes, we can conclude that Fiat Currency and the ills that it drags along is the primary reason that middle class & poor people are getting poorer....while the top 1-5% get richer. Coincidence that average real wages have been in decline since 1973....just 1-2 yrs after leaving what remained of the gold standard? A lot of baggage comes along with fiat currency, most notable is the lack of checks and balances on debt. 47% of the population now depends on ever growing fiat money handed out by govt. It's not about to stop.
5. Some individuals can break into the cycle of #4, but for the most part the ultra rich continue to get richer. Yes, evil fiat has been the problem for 40 yrs now. Gold is not the solution, just one means for the under-rich to protect what wealth they do have. When fiat currency wasn't doing this fast enough, the banksters came up with otc derivatives to act as their own alternative money. If that doesn't continue to work for them, they'll come up with something else (bail-ins, stealing from segregated accounts, etc.).
There was a reason the founding fathers didn't want to have fiat currencies and made it illegal to use anything but gold and silver coins in payment of debts. They knew that unbacked paper money could eventually mortgage the nation right back to the moneyed powers. If fiat wasn't so evil, the FF's would have happily included it into our constitution. The Coinage Act of 1792 (sect 19) made it punishable by death to debase authorized gold and silver coinage. You think the FF's would be surprised by the dollar debasement over the past 100 yrs? The FF's certainly seem to be saying that anything but sound gold and silver coinage is basically an evil. Hundreds of years of failed paper currencies taught them that lesson. Looks like we're going to learn the same lesson again....selling off the nation in the process. Fractional reserve banking with a fiat currency is just another Ponzi scheme. That fact that the govt does it doesn't mean it's not an evil. Anyone glancing at our 100 yr sovereign debt & entitlements charts would come to the conclusion that something is very broken. Evil is one way to describe it. But, I think criminal is a better choice.
<< <i>Yes, technically not a "complete" gold standard on paper. But the fact that 109 nations/central banks report gold holdings suggest there is a gold standard in play, even if mostly symbolic >>
RR...not mostly symbolic, but 100% symbolic. Again, there is not one nation that is currently under a "gold standard." In your line of thought, it appears, that anyone who owns gold is on a symbolic gold standard? To me, it's just another investment, albeit that does not pay any dividends. >>
It's far from 100% symbolic with 31,000 tonnes of it sitting in central bank vaults....and growing as the BRICS continue to add to supplies. China is adding on the order of 500-1000 tonnes per year. Symbolic? They are spending real Yuan, dollars, and TBonds to buy that production. >>
They're buying Bernanke insurance as well.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
I think it's likely that someday in the future gold will have less value. It can either drop because other materials replace it or at some point they can mine it from space or deep earth cheap enough to devalue it. Probably not in my lifetime but probably in the younger peoples lifetime.
I think it's likely that someday in the future gold will have less value. It can either drop because other materials replace it or at some point they can mine it from space or deep earth cheap enough to devalue it. Probably not in my lifetime but probably in the younger peoples lifetime.
tneig
Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭
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Update 1: down 50%. $1 billion vaporized
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
Were peoples bitcoin balances destroyed? Or the value of a bitcoin against the dollar dropped?
Bitcoin is an alternate currency not an investment. It was around 30 dollars to the bitcoin about 8 weeks ago . I don't think anyone who turned dollars into bitcoins at that point is angry.
Take a step back and stop looking at it as an investment and just treat it as an alternate currency and relax.
Even if the system fails so what? Our fiat currency is going to fail just like 599 others that have done that before.
I think our governments and central banks feel threatened by bitcoin and thats reason enough for its existence just so we can watch how they react to it.
But then I saw the climbing value and price swings (and the hacks) and that if you lose your token on your computer, your coins are lost. And I never understood on what its based on. So, since then, I considered it a chancy type thing. Currency value moves but not like that, so for me I would not consider using them or putting any money into their purchase. In my view of it, its a speculative investment, not "a relatively stable purchasing currency." Things could go good, very good, wrong, or very wrong at any given day. If you obtained them when high, and it drops, then you lose the buying power. If something can toppel it so easily, it needs some time and maturity before I consider it a currency I would trust. I'd expect more of this. Granted that I do not know how it is used as a purchasing function.
<< <i>Were peoples bitcoin balances destroyed? Or the value of a bitcoin against the dollar dropped?
Bitcoin is an alternate currency not an investment. It was around 30 dollars to the bitcoin about 8 weeks ago . I don't think anyone who turned dollars into bitcoins at that point is angry.
Take a step back and stop looking at it as an investment and just treat it as an alternate currency and relax.
Even if the system fails so what? Our fiat currency is going to fail just like 599 others that have done that before.
I think our governments and central banks feel threatened by bitcoin and thats reason enough for its existence just so we can watch how they react to it. >>
<< <i>Our fiat currency is going to fail just like 599 others that have done that before. >>
Really? Very unlikely, in my opinion, and not in our life time. I also realize that your above commend comes straight out of a Doomsayer mindset. 599 currencies that failed? I can only think of 7 from so "called industrialized countries" that failed (3d world currency's are always failing, but the fiat fiat currency was seldom the primary cause of failure) in the last 60 years and one was WWII related. True, during the 1920th we had the Weimar Republic that failed, but the underlying failure was do to numerous reasons, fiat currency being just one of them.
<< <i>
<< <i>Our fiat currency is going to fail just like 599 others that have done that before. >>
...599 currencies that failed? I can only think of 7 from so "called industrialized countries" that failed (3d world currency's are always failing, but the fiat fiat currency was seldom the primary cause of failure) in the last 60 years and one was WWII related. True, during the 1920th we had the Weimar Republic that failed, but the underlying failure was do to numerous reasons, fiat currency being just one of them. >>
I could not find 599 either but I believe that was an arbitrary number, the fact is currencies fail right?
Edited to say, I stand corrected, see post below
Here is one list of currencies that no longer circulate. I didn't count but I had to hit the page down button 37 times
no longer with us
<< <i>Here is one list of currencies that no longer circulate. I didn't count but I had to hit the page down button 37 times
no longer with us >>
595
CURRENCY NAME (CURRENCY CODE) INCEPTION DEMONETIZED DURATION (Years) DESTROYED BY
Yugoslav 1994 Dinar (YUG) 1994 1994 1 mo. Hyperinflation
DDR Kuponmark (DDK) 1948 1948 1 mo. WWII
Hungarian Bilpengoe (HUB) 1946 1946 1.5 mos. Hyperinflation
Hungarian Adopengoe (HUA) 1946 1946 2 mos. Hyperinflation
German Gold Mark (DEG) 1923 1923 2 mos. Hyperinflation
Slovenia Laibach Lira (SIL) 1944 1944 2.5 mos. WWII
Krajina (Serbian Republic) October Dinar (HRKO) 1993 1994 3 mos. Hyperinflation
Yugoslav October Dinar (YUO) 1993 1993 3 mos. Hyperinflation
Kazakhstan Ruble (KZR) 1993 1993 3 mos. Hyperinflation
North Korean Won (KPO) 1959 1959 3 mos. Hyperinflation
Hungarian Milpengoe (HUM) 1946 1946 3 mos. Hyperinflation
Serbian Republic October Dinar (BASO) 1993 1994 4 mos. Other War
Polish Zloty Lublin (PLL) 1944 1945 4 mos. WWII
Hungarian Red Army Pengoe (HUR) 1945 1945 6 mos. WWII
Uzbekistan Coupon Sum (UZC) 1993 1994 8.5 mos. Hyperinflation
Kepulauan Riau Rupiah (IDRR) 1963 1964 8.5 mos. Replaced with IDR
Japan Base Metal Kammon (JPK) 1904 1905 9 mos. Hyperinflation
Japan Gold Oban (JPO) 1904 1905 9 mos. Hyperinflation
Japan Silver Momme (JPM) 1904 1905 9 mos. Hyperinflation
Transnistrian Ruble (PDR) 1994 1994 11 mos. Hyperinflation
Ukraine Karbovanetz (UAK) 1992 1993 11 mos. Hyperinflation
Brazil Cruzeiro Real (BRR) 1993 1994 1 Hyperinflation
Albanian Lek Valute (ALV) 1992 1993 1 Discontinued
Krajina (Serbian Republic) Reformed Dinar (HRKR) 1992 1993 1 Hyperinflation
Latvia Ruble (LVR) 1992 1993 1 Hyperinflation
Lithuania Talonas (LTT) 1992 1993 1 Hyperinflation
Macedonian Denar (MKN) 1992 1993 1 Hyperinflation
Moldovan Leu Cupon (MDC) 1992 1993 1 Hyperinflation
Serbian Republic Reformed Dinar (BASR) 1992 1993 1 Hyperinflation
Yugoslav Reformed Dinar (YUR) 1992 1993 1 Hyperinflation
Moldovan Ruble Kupon (MDR) 1991 1992 1 Hyperinflation
Slovenia Tolar Bons (SIB) 1991 1992 1 Renamed SIT
Brazil Cruzado Novo (BRN) 1989 1990 1 Hyperinflation
Chinese Gold Chin Yuan (CNG) 1948 1949 1 Chinese Civil War
Chinese Silver Yin Yuan (CNS) 1948 1949 1 Chinese Civil War
Sinkiang Gold Yuan (CNSG) 1948 1949 1 Chinese Civil War
Azerbaijan Toman (IRZT) 1945 1946 1 Conquered by Iran
Austrian Allied Military Schillings (ATM) 1944 1945 1 WWII
Czechoslovak Red Army Korunu (CSR) 1944 1945 1 WWII
Romanian Red Army Leu (ROR) 1944 1945 1 WWII
Soviet Ruble of 1923 (SUB) 1923 1924 1 Hyperinflation
Russian Ruble of 1922 (RUFR) 1922 1922 1 Creation of the USSR
East Africa Florin (XEAF) 1920 1922 1 WWII
Monaco Franc Germinal (MCG) 1920 1921 1 Emergency measure
North Russian Ruble (RUNR) 1919 1920 1 Creation of the USSR
Austrian Krone (ATK) 1918 1919 1 WWI
Transcaucasian Ruble (ZKRR) 1917 1918 1 Russian Civil War
German New Guinea Mark (PGM) 1914 1915 1 WWI
German Southwest Africa Mark (NAP) 1914 1915 1 WWI
Confederate States Reformed Dollar (CSAR) 1864 1865 1 US Civil War
French Franc (Mandats Territorial) (FRM) 1796 1797 1 Hyperinflation
French Franc (Assignats) (FRA) 1795 1796 1 Hyperinflation
Paper Poland Florin Zloty (PLF) 1794 1795 1 Partitioned by Austria, Prussia and Russia
Krajina (Serbian Republic) 1994 Dinar (HRKG) 1994 1996 2 Hyperinflation
Georgia Kupon Larit (GEK) 1993 1995 2 Hyperinflation
Belarus Ruble (BYL) 1992 1994 2 Hyperinflation (Indirect)
Bosnia Dinar (BAD) 1992 1994 2 Hyperinflation
Yugoslav Convertible Dinar (YUN) 1990 1992 2 Hyperinflation
Argentina Peso Argentino (ARP) 1983 1985 2 Hyperinflation
Oman Rial Saidi (OMS) 1970 1972 2 Act of Independence
Ghana Old Cedi (GHO) 1965 1967 2 Replaced with GHC
French Franc Nouveau (FRF) 1960 1962 2 Renamed French Franc
Korean Military Won (KROM) 1945 1947 2 Replaced with KPP
Italy "Badaglio" Lira (ITLB) 1943 1945 2 WWII
Italy "Mussolini" Lira (ITLM) 1943 1945 2 WWII
Italy American Military Lira (ITA) 1943 1945 2 WWII
Italy British Military Lira (ITB) 1943 1945 2 WWII
Reichs Karbowanez (UAC) 1942 1944 2 WWII
US "Hawaiian" Dollar (USDH) 1942 1944 2 WWII
Spanish Nationalist Peseta (ESPN) 1936 1939 2 WWII
Soviet Transcaucasian Ruble (ZKSR) 1922 1924 2 Creation of the USSR
Far Eastern Republic Ruble (DBRR) 1920 1922 2 Creation of the USSR
Soviet Armenian Ruble (AMSR) 1920 1922 2 Creation of the USSR
Soviet Azerbaijan Ruble (AZSR) 1920 1922 2 Creation of the USSR
Armenian Ruble (AMR) 1918 1920 2 Creation of the USSR
Azerbaijan Republic Ruble (AZR) 1918 1920 2 Creation of the USSR
Khiva Tenga (KHVT) 1918 1920 2 Creation of the USSR
Germany Darlenskasse Ost Ruble (DEOR) 1916 1918 2 WWI
Peru Inca (PER) 1880 1882 2 Discontinued
Haiti New Paper Gourde (HTN) 1870 1872 2 Hyperinflation
Maryland Red Shillings (CMDR) 1781 1783 2 Hyperinflation
New Jersey New Shilling (CNJN) 1781 1783 2 Hyperinflation
Vermont State Shilling (CVTS) 1781 1783 2 Hyperinflation
Bosnia New Dinar (BAN) 1994 1997 3 Replaced with BAM
Russian Ruble (RUR) 1991 1994 3 Hyperinflation
Brazil Cruzeiro (BRE) 1990 1993 3 Hyperinflation
Nicaragua Cordoba (NIC) 1988 1991 3 Hyperinflation
Brazil Cruzado (BRC) 1986 1989 3 Hyperinflation
Laos Liberation Kip (LAL) 1976 1979 3 Hyperinflation
Viet Nam South Dong (VNS) 1975 1978 3 Union of Vietnam
Biafran Pound (BIAP) 1967 1970 3 Conquered by Nigeria
Katanga Franc (KATF) 1960 1963 3 Act of Independence
Portuguese India Escudo (INPE) 1959 1962 3 Act of Independence
Reunion Franc (REF) 1959 1962 3 Hyperinflation
German Sperrmark (DES) 1951 1954 3 Discontinued
German Allied Mark (DEA) 1945 1948 3 WWII
Japanese Allied Yen (JPA) 1945 1948 3 WWII
Nationalist Manchurian Yuan (CNNY) 1945 1948 3 Chinese Civil War
Netherlands Indies Gumpyo Roepiah (NIDR) 1943 1946 3 WWII
Malaya Gumpyo Dollar (MYAG) 1942 1945 3 WWII
Philippine Guerilla Peso (PHG) 1942 1945 3 WWII
Netherlands Indies Gumpyo Gulden (IDDJ) 1941 1944 3 WWII
Romania Infinex Leu (ROI) 1941 1944 3 WWII
Canton Dollar (CNDC) 1935 1938 3 WWII
Danzig Mark (DZGM) 1920 1923 3 WWI
Memel Mark (MMLM) 1920 1923 3 WWI
Soviet Khiva Ruble (SUVT) 1920 1923 3 Creation of the USSR
Georgian Ruble (GER) 1918 1921 3 Creation of the USSR
Bukhara Tenga (BKHT) 1917 1920 3 Creation of the USSR
Mexico "Inconvertible" Paper Peso (MXI) 1913 1916 3 Hyperinflation
Confederate States Dollar (CSAD) 1861 1864 3 US Civil War
Maryland Black Shillings (CMDB) 1780 1783 3 Hyperinflation
Afghanistan Dostumi Afghani (AFAD) 1998 2002 4 Hyperinflation
Afghanistan Rabbini Afghani (AFAR) 1998 2002 4 Hyperinflation
Angola Kwanza Reajustado (AOR) 1995 1999 4 Hyperinflation
Tatarstan Shamil (RUTS*) 1992 1996 4 Part of Russia
Croatian Dinar (HRD) 1991 1995 4 Other War
Congolese Zaire (CDZ) 1967 1971 4 Act of Independence
Zambian Pound (ZMP) 1964 1968 4 Act of Independence
Algerian New Franc (DZF) 1960 1964 4 Act of Independence
Ruanda-Urundi Franc (BRIF) 1960 1964 4 Act of Independence
German Bekomark 1954 1958 4 Discontinued
German Libkamark 1954 1958 4 Discontinued
Djibouti CFA Franc (DJC) 1945 1949 4 Act of Independence
Indonesia Guerilla Rupiah (IDG) 1945 1949 4 Replaced with IDN at par
Taiwan Nationalist Yuan (TWN) 1945 1949 4 Chinese Civil War
French Franc (Allied Military Provisional) (FRP) 1944 1948 4 WWII
Burmese Gumpyo Rupee (BUG) 1941 1945 4 WWII
Croatian Kuna (HRC) 1941 1945 4 WWII
French Indochina Military Yen (ICFG) 1941 1945 4 WWII
Hong Kong Military Yen (HKG) 1941 1945 4 WWII
Japanese Military Yen (XJPM) 1941 1945 4 WWII
Nanking/CRB Yuan (CNPN) 1941 1945 4 WWII
New Hebrides Franc (NHF) 1941 1945 4 WWII
Oceania Gumpyo Pound (XOGP) 1941 1945 4 WWII
Philippine Gumpyo Peso (PHJ) 1941 1945 4 WWII
Serbian Dinar (SRDD) 1941 1945 4 WWII
Germany Behelfszahlungsmittel (XDEB) 1940 1944 4 WWII
Soviet Bukhara Ruble (BKSR) 1920 1924 4 Creation of the USSR
Latvia Ruble (LVB) 1918 1922 4 Hyperinflation
Ruble Sovnazki (RUFS) 1918 1922 4 Creation of the USSR
Russian Ruble Sovnazki (RUFS) 1918 1922 4 Hyperinflation
Yugoslav Kronen (YUK) 1918 1922 4 WWI
Spanish Escudo (ESE) 1864 1868 4 Latin Monetary Union
Alabama Confederate Dollar (CSALD) 1861 1865 4 US Civil War
Arkansas Confederate Dollar (CSAKD) 1861 1865 4 US Civil War
Florida Confederate Dollar (CSFLD) 1861 1865 4 US Civil War
Georgia Confederate Dollar (CSGAD) 1861 1865 4 US Civil War
Louisiana Confederate Dollar (CSLAD) 1861 1865 4 US Civil War
Mississippi Confederate Dollar (CSMSD) 1861 1865 4 US Civil War
North Carolina Confederate Dollar (CSNCD) 1861 1865 4 US Civil War
South Carolina Confederate Dollar (CSSCD) 1861 1865 4 US Civil War
Tennessee Confederate Dollar (CSTND) 1861 1865 4 US Civil War
Texas Confederate Dollar (CSTXD) 1861 1865 4 US Civil War
Tajikistan Ruble (TJR) 1995 2000 5 Hyperinflation
Zairean New Zaire (ZRN) 1993 1998 5 Hyperinflation
Angola Kwanza Novo (AON) 1990 1995 5 Hyperinflation
Israel Shekel (ILL) 1980 1985 5 Hyperinflation
Chinese Old Jen Min Piao Yuan (CNP) 1948 1953 5 Hyperinflation
Romanian New Leu (RON) 1947 1952 5 Hyperinflation
Indonesia "Java" Rupiah (IDJ) 1945 1950 5 Act of Independence
Indonesia "Nica" Guilder (IDD) 1945 1950 5 Act of Independence
Netherlands Indies Gumpyo Roepiah (IDDR) 1941 1946 5 Hyperinflation
Polish Cracow Zloty (PLK) 1940 1945 5 WWII
Slovak Koruna (SKO) 1940 1945 5 WWII
Italian East Africa Lira (AOIL) 1936 1941 5 WWII
Rif Republic Riffan (MARR) 1921 1926 5 Other War
Ukraine Grivna (UAG) 1917 1922 5 Creation of the USSR
Southwest Africa Mark (NAM) 1915 1920 5 WWI
Serbian Dinar (SRBD) 1913 1918 5 WWI
South African Republic Pound (ZAPP) 1905 1910 5 Switched to GBP
Greek Phoenix (GRP) 1828 1833 5 Replaced with GRS at par
Transnistrian Kupon Ruble (PDK) 1994 2000 6 Hyperinflation
Peru Inti (PEI) 1985 1991 6 Hyperinflation
Rhodesian Pound (RHP) 1964 1970 6 Act of Independence
North Viet Nam Piastre Dong Viet (VDD ) 1953 1959 6 Hyperinflation
Germany Reichskreditkassenscheine (XDEK) 1940 1946 6 WWII
Bohemia and Moravia Koruna (CSM ) 1939 1945 6 WWII
Japan Military Yen (CNPY) 1939 1945 6 WWII
Estonia Marka (EEM) 1918 1924 6 Hyperinflation
Fiume Krone (FIUK) 1918 1924 6 WWII
West Indies Joe (GYJ) 1830 1836 6 Act of Independence
French Livre (Assignats) (FRL) 1789 1795 6 Hyperinflation
Belarus New Ruble (BYB) 1994 2001 7 Hyperinflation
Russian Federation Ruble (RUR) 1991 1998 7 Hyperinflation
Argentina Austral (ARA) 1985 1992 7 Hyperinflation
Equatorial Guinea Franco (GQF) 1985 1992 7 West African Monetary Union
Viet Nam New Dong (VNN) 1978 1985 7 Replaced 10:1 VNN
Peseta Guineana (GQP) 1968 1975 7 Act of Independence
Qatar-Dubai Riyal (XQDR) 1966 1973 7 Act of Independence
Gambia Pound (GMP) 1964 1971 7 Act of Independence
Malawi Pound (MWP) 1964 1971 7 Act of Independence
Congolese Republic Franc (CDG) 1960 1967 7 Hyperinflation
Viet Minh Piastre Dong Viet (VDP) 1946 1953 7 First Vietnam War
Hungarian Korona (HUK) 1918 1925 7 Hyperinflation
Connecticut Continental Shilling (CCTS) 1776 1783 7 Hyperinflation
Delaware Continental Shilling (CDES) 1776 1783 7 Hyperinflation
Georgia Continental Shilling (CGAS) 1776 1783 7 Hyperinflation
Maryland Continental Shilling (CMDS) 1776 1783 7 Hyperinflation
Massachusetts Continental Shilling (CMAS) 1776 1783 7 Hyperinflation
New Hampshire Continental Shilling (CNHS) 1776 1783 7 Hyperinflation
New Jersey Continental Shilling (CNJS) 1776 1783 7 Hyperinflation
New York Continental Shilling (CNYS) 1776 1783 7 Hyperinflation
North Carolina Continental Shilling (CNCS) 1776 1783 7 Hyperinflation
Pennsylvania Continental Shilling (CPAS) 1776 1783 7 Hyperinflation
Rhode Island Continental Shilling (CRHS) 1776 1783 7 Hyperinflation
South Carolina Continental Shilling (CSCS) 1776 1783 7 Hyperinflation
Virginia Continental Shilling (CVAS) 1776 1783 7 Hyperinflation
Irian Barat Rupiah (IDIR) 1963 1971 8 Replaced 1:12.63 IDR
Czechoslovak New Koruna (CSC) 1945 1953 8 Replaced 5:1 CSK
German Effektensperrmark (DERE) 1931 1939 8 WWII
German Kreditsperrmark (DERK) 1931 1939 8 WWII
Polish Marka (PLM) 1916 1924 8 WWII
Germany Darlenskasse Ost Mark (DEOM) 1914 1922 8 WWI
Kiau Chau Dollar (JPY) 1914 1922 8 WWI
Ottoman Empire Paper Lira (XOTL) 1914 1922 8 WWI
Montenegro Perper (MEP) 1910 1918 8 WWI
Chinese Paper Tael (CNTP) 1853 1861 8 Hyperinflation
New Hampshire Lawful Shilling (CNHL) 1755 1763 8 Act of Independence
Massachusetts Shilling Middle Tenor (CMAM) 1741 1749 8 Act of Independence
Massachusetts Shilling New Tenor (CMAN) 1741 1749 8 Act of Independence
Liberian Liberty Dollars (LRDL) 1991 2000 9 Other War
Rhodesia and Nyasaland Federation Pound (RHFP) 1956 1965 9 Act of Independence
South Korean Hwan (KRH) 1953 1962 9 Replaced 10:1 KRW
German Handelsperrmark (DERH) 1939 1948 9 WWII
German Registermark (XRDERM/DERR) 1939 1948 9 WWII
German Reichskreditkassenschein (XDEK) 1939 1948 9 WWII
Sinkiang Yuan (CNSY) 1939 1948 9 Chinese Civil War
Meng Chiang (Bank of Inner Mongolia) Yuan (CNPM) 1936 1945 9 WWII
Peking/Tientsin/Northern China/FRB Yuan (CNPP) 1935 1944 9 WWII
Fiji Old Dollar (FJO) 1865 1874 9 Conquered by Britain
Connecticut Dollar (CCTD) 1783 1792 9 Creation of the USD
Delaware Dollar (CDED) 1783 1792 9 Creation of the USD
Georgia Dollar (CGAD) 1783 1792 9 Creation of the USD
Maryland Dollar (CMDD) 1783 1792 9 Creation of the USD
Massachusetts Dollar (CMAD) 1783 1792 9 Creation of the USD
New Hampshire Dollar (CNHD) 1783 1792 9 Creation of the USD
New Jersey Dollar (CNJD) 1783 1792 9 Creation of the USD
New York Dollar (CNYD) 1783 1792 9 Creation of the USD
North Carolina Dollar (CNCD) 1783 1792 9 Creation of the USD
Pennsylvania Dollar (CPAD) 1783 1792 9 Creation of the USD
Rhode Island Dollar (CRHD) 1783 1792 9 Creation of the USD
South Carolina Dollar (CSCD) 1783 1792 9 Creation of the USD
Virginia Dollar (CVAD) 1783 1792 9 Creation of the USD
Rhodesian Dollar (RHD/ZWC) 1970 1980 10 Act of Independence
French Affars and Issas Franc (AIF) 1967 1977 10 Act of Independence
Bulgarian Socialist Lev (BGM) 1952 1962 10 Replaced 10:1 BGL
India Haj Pilgrimage Rupee (XINP) 1950 1960 10 Replaced with INR
Somali Somalo (SOIS) 1950 1960 10 Replaced with SOS
Greek New Drachma (GRN) 1944 1954 10 Hyperinflation
British Military Authority Lira (LYB) 1941 1951 10 Hyperinflation
Austro-Hungarian Monetary Union Gulden (XATG) 1857 1867 10 Latin Monetary Union
Moldova Ducat (MDD) 1857 1867 10 Discontinued
Texas Dollar (TXSD) 1836 1846 10 Joined the US
Liberian JJ Dollars (LRDJ) 1989 2000 11 Other War
Ekuele (Epkwele) Guineana (GQE) 1975 1986 11 West African Monetary Union
Reunion Nouveau Franc (REN) 1963 1974 11 Act of Independence
Persian Gulf Rupee (XPGR) 1959 1970 11 Discontinued
Spanish Republican Peseta (ESPR) 1931 1942 11 WWII
Saar Franc (SAAF) 1919 1930 11 WWII
Angola Escudo Portuguese (AOE) 1914 1925 11 Replaced 1.25:1 AOA
Paper Newfoundland Pound (NFLP) 1854 1865 11 Replaced with NFLD
Ghana Revalued Cedi (GHR) 1967 1979 12 Replaced with GHC (Confiscation)
Saint Pierre CFA Nouveau Franc (XCF) 1960 1972 12 Act of Independence
Albanian Lek Foreign Exchange Certificates (ALX) 1953 1965 12 Exchange Certificate
North Korea People's Won (KPP) 1947 1959 12 Hyperinflation
German Behelfszahlungsmittel fuer die Deutsche Wehrmacht (XDEB) 1936 1948 12 WWII
Azerbaijan Manat (AZM) 1993 2006 13 Hyperinflation
Iraqi "Swiss print" Kurdistan Dinar (IQDS) 1991 2004 13 Act of Independence
Argentina Peso Ley 18.188 (ARL) 1970 1983 13 Hyperinflation
Netherlands New Guinea Guilder (NNGG) 1950 1963 13 Act of Independence
Manchukuo Yuan (CNMY) 1932 1945 13 WWII
Soviet Chervonetz (SUC) 1922 1935 13 Discontinued
Ecuador Peso (ECP) 1871 1884 13 Renamed ESC
Paper Paraguay National Peso (PYN) 1857 1870 13 Renamed PYF
New Hampshire Colonial Shilling (CNHC) 1763 1776 13 US War of Independence
Rhode Island Colonial Shilling (CRHC) 1763 1776 13 US War of Independence
Angola Kwanza (AOK) 1977 1991 14 Hyperinflation (Indirect)
Guinea Syli (GNS) 1972 1986 14 Replaced with GNF (92.47% devaluation)
Somali Scellino (SOS) 1960 1974 14 Renamed in 1974
Nigerian Pound (NGP) 1959 1973 14 Act of Independence
Guinea Franc (GNI) 1958 1972 14 Act of Independence
Soviet New Ruble (SUN) 1947 1961 14 Replaced 10:1 SUR
Venezuela Venezolano (VEV) 1873 1887 14 Replaced 1:5 VEB
South German Vereinsgulden (XDSG) 1857 1871 14 Replaced with DEP
Turkmenistan Manat (TMM) 1993 2009 15 Hyperinflation
Sudanese Dinar (SDD) 1992 2007 15 Hyperinflation
Slovenia Tolar (SIT) 1991 2006 15 EURO
Chilean Escudo (CLE) 1960 1975 15 Hyperinflation
French Antilles Franc (XNF) 1960 1975 15 Act of Independence
Burmese Rupee (BUR) 1937 1952 15 Renamed BUK
East Africa Rupee (XEAR) 1905 1920 15 WWI
Crete Drachma (GKD) 1898 1913 15 WWI
Colombian Gold Peso (COG) 1871 1886 15 Hyperinflation
Argentina Peso Fuerte (ARF) 1860 1875 15 Replaced with ARG
Connecticut Shilling New Tenor (CCTN) 1740 1755 15 Act of Independence
Slovak Koruna (SKK) 1992 2008 16 EURO
Timor Escudo (TPE) 1959 1975 16 Act of Independence
British Caribbean Territories (Eastern Group) Dollar (XBCD) 1951 1967 16 Act of Independence
Indonesia New Rupiah (IDN) 1949 1965 16 Hyperinflation
Saint Pierre CFA Franc (XCFG) 1943 1959 16 Hyperinflation
Southern Rhodesian Currency Board Pound (RHSP) 1940 1956 16 Replaced with RHFP at par
Saudi Sovereign Riyal (SAS) 1936 1952 16 Replaced with SAR
Estonia Kroon (EEN) 1924 1940 16 WWII
Danzig Gulden (DZGG) 1923 1939 16 WWII
German Rentenmark (DEN) 1923 1939 16 WWII
Saudi Arabian Riyal (SAA) 1916 1932 16 Formation of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
Italian Somaliland Rupiah (SOIR) 1909 1925 16 Replaced with XITL
Bulgarian Lev Srebro (BGS) 1904 1920 16 WWI
Azores Milreis (APM) 1895 1911 16 Hyperinflation
US Paper Dollar (USP) 1862 1878 16 Discontinued
North Korea Foreign Won (KPX) 1978 1995 17 Discontinued
Chinese Soviet Yuan (CNSD) 1931 1948 17 Chinese Civil War
Hankow Dollar (CNDH) 1914 1931 17 WWII
Heilungkiang Tiao (CNHT) 1914 1931 17 WWII
Kansu Dollar (CNDK) 1914 1931 17 WWII
Kirin Tiao (CNKT) 1914 1931 17 WWII
Kwangtung Dollar (CNDG) 1914 1931 17 WWII
Manchurian Dollar (CNDM) 1914 1931 17 WWII
Peking Dollar (CNDB) 1914 1931 17 WWII
Shanghai Dollar (CNDA) 1914 1931 17 WWII
Shantung Dollar (CNDS) 1914 1931 17 WWII
Szechwan Dollar (CNDZ) 1914 1931 17 WWII
Kiau Chau Dollar (KCHD) 1897 1914 17 WWI
Puerto Rican Peso (PRS) 1881 1898 17 Switched to USD
Spanish Real/Peso Duro (ESR) 1847 1864 17 Replaced with ESE at par
US Continental Dollar (USC) 1775 1792 17 Creation of the USD
Uruguay Peso Nuevo (UYP/UYN) 1975 1993 18 Hyperinflation
Angolan Escudo (AOS) 1958 1976 18 Hyperinflation
Djibouti Franc (DJA ) 1949 1967 18 Act of Independence
Chinese Custom Gold Units (CNU) 1930 1948 18 Chinese Civil War
Italian Lira (XITL) 1925 1943 18 WWII
Latvia Lat (LVA) 1922 1940 18 WWII
Lithuanian Lita (LTB) 1922 1940 18 WWII
Riksdaler Riksmynt (SEM) 1855 1873 18 Scandinavian Monetary Union
Chinese US Dollar Foreign Exchange Certificates (CNX) 1979 1998 19 Exchange Certificate
Congo CFA Franc (COF) 1973 1992 19 Act of Independence
Gabon CFA Franc (GAF) 1973 1992 19 Act of Independence
Brazil Cruzeiro Novo (BRB) 1967 1986 19 Hyperinflation
North Viet Nam New Dong (VDN/VNC) 1959 1978 19 Union of Vietnam
Albanian Lek (ALK) 1946 1965 19 Replaced 10:1 ALL
Colombia Paper Peso (COB) 1886 1905 19 Hyperinflation
North German Thaler (XDET) 1838 1857 19 Austro-Hungarian Monetary Union
South German Gulden (XDEG) 1838 1857 19 Austro-Hungarian Monetary Union
Paper French Livre Tournois (FRT) 1701 1720 19 Hyperinflation
Guinea-Bissau Peso (GWP) 1976 1996 20 West African Monetary Union
Luxembourg Convertible Franc (LUC) 1970 1990 20 EURO
Bulgarian Lev Foreign Exchange Certificates (BGX) 1966 1986 20 Exchange Certificate
Cambodia Old Riel (KHO) 1955 1975 20 Discontinued
South Viet Nam Republic Dong (VNR) 1955 1975 20 Hyperinflation
Libyan Pound (LYP) 1951 1971 20 Act of Independence
Belgian Belga (BEB) 1925 1945 20 WWII
Madagascar Franc (MGG) 1925 1945 20 WWII
Czechoslovak Pre-War Koruna (CSO) 1919 1939 20 WWII
Luxembourg Financial Franc (LUL) 1970 1991 21 EURO
Uganda Shilling (UGS/UGW) 1966 1987 21 Hyperinflation
Ghana Pound (GHP) 1958 1979 21 Act of Independence
Laos Old Kip (LAO) 1955 1976 21 Replaced 20:1 LAL
Albania Franga (ALF) 1925 1946 21 Monetary Union with Yugoslavia
Hungarian Pengoe (HUP) 1925 1946 21 Hyperinflation
Russian Gold Ruble (RUER) 1897 1918 21 Russian Civil War
Nicaragua Silver Peso (NIP) 1881 1912 21 Replaced 12.5:1 NIG
Connecticut Colonial Shilling (CCTC) 1755 1776 21 US War of Independence
New Hampshire Shilling New Tenor (CNHN) 1742 1763 21 Act of Independence
Zairean Zaire (ZRZ) 1971 1993 22 Hyperinflation
Mali Franc (MLF/MAF) 1962 1984 22 Act of Independence
Bolivian Peso (BOP) 1963 1986 23 Hyperinflation
Palestine Pound (PSP) 1927 1950 23 Act of Independence
Soviet Gold Ruble (SUG) 1924 1947 23 Replaced 10:1 SUN
Tanu Tuva Aksha (TVAA) 1921 1944 23 WWII
Mozambique Libra Esterlina (MZL) 1919 1942 23 WWII
Yugoslav Serbian Dinar (YUS) 1918 1941 23 WWII
Luxembourg Thaler (LUT) 1848 1871 23 Replaced with LUM
Yugoslav Hard Dinar (YUD) 1966 1990 24 Hyperinflation
German Reichsmark (DER) 1924 1948 24 WWII
Austria Old Schilling (ATO) 1923 1947 24 WWII
Sinkiang Tael (CNST) 1912 1936 24 WWII
Yunnan Yuan (CNYY) 1912 1936 24 WWII
Brazil Mil Reis (BRM) 1822 1846 24 Hyperinflation
South Yemeni Dinar (YDD) 1965 1990 25 Union of Yemen
Malaya Dollar (MYAD) 1938 1963 25 Act of Independence
Austro-Hungarian Gulden (ATG) 1867 1892 25 Replaced 1:2 ATK
Paper Riksdaler Banco (SEO) 1830 1855 25 Replaced with SEM
Austro-Hungarian Kronen (ATK) 1892 1918 26 WWI
German East African Rupie (DOAR) 1890 1917 27 WWI
Massachusetts Colonial Shilling (CMAC) 1749 1776 27 US War of Independence
Ghana New Cedi (GHC) 1979 2007 28 Hyperinflation
Lebanon-Syria Pound (XLSP) 1920 1948 28 WWII
Zanzibar Rupee (ZZR) 1908 1936 28 Replaced 1:1.5 XEAS
Maryland Colonial New Shilling (CMDN) 1748 1776 28 US War of Independence
North Carolina Shilling New Tenor (CNCN) 1748 1776 28 US War of Independence
South Carolina Colonial Shilling (CSCC) 1748 1776 28 US War of Independence
Kuan-Tze (Frontier Bills of S'ung) 1131 1159 28 Hyperinflation
Tibet Tangka (TBT) 1912 1941 29 Replaced with TBR
Soviet Hard Ruble (SUR) 1961 1991 30 Breakup of USSR
Polish US Dollar Foreign Exchange Certificates (PLX) 1960 1990 30 Exchange Certificate
Madagascar and Comores CFA Franc (XMCF) 1945 1975 30 Act of Independence
British West Indies Dollar (XBWD) 1935 1965 30 Act of Independence
Haiti Silver Gourde (HTS) 1814 1844 30 Hyperinflation (Indirect)
New Jersey Colonial Shilling (CNJC) 1746 1776 30 US War of Independence
Ethiopian Dollar (ETD) 1945 1976 31 Act of Independence
Guyana British West Indies Dollar (XBWD) 1935 1966 31 Act of Independence
Rhode Island Shilling New Tenor (CRHN) 1740 1771 31 Act of Independence
Rhode Island Proclamation Shilling (CRHP) 1709 1740 31 Act of Independence
COMECON Transferable Ruble (XTR) 1960 1992 32 Breakup of USSR
Israel Pound (ILP) 1948 1980 32 Act of Independence
Angola Angolar (AOA) 1926 1958 32 Monetary Union with Portugese Colonies
Cameroon Mark (CMDM) 1884 1916 32 WWI
French Indochina Piastre of Commerce (ICFC) 1863 1895 32 Discontinued
Tunisian Franc (TNF) 1858 1891 33 Hyperinflation
Somalia Shilling (SOS) 1960 1994 34 Hyperinflation
Maldive Islands Rupee (MVP/MVQ) 1947 1981 34 Act of Independence
Mozambique Mil Reis (MZR) 1877 1911 34 Hyperinflation
Colombia Peso Oro (COE) 1837 1871 34 Discontinued
Korea Yen (KROY) 1910 1945 35 WWII
New Hebrides CFP Franc (NHF) 1945 1981 36 Act of Independence
First Mongol Issue (Pao-Ch'ao of Kublai Khan) 1236 1272 36 Hyperinflation
Bulgarian Heavy Lev (BGL/BGK) 1962 1999 37 Hyperinflation
Burmese Kyat (BUK) 1952 1989 37 Act of Independence
Ottoman Empire Piastre (XOTP) 1844 1881 37 Replaced with XOTL
Brazilian Dutch Gulden (BRG) 1624 1661 37 Conquered by Portugal
Second Mongol Issue (Pao-Ch'ao of Chih Yuan) 1272 1309 37 Hyperinflation
Djibouti Franc Germinal (DJG) 1907 1945 38 WWII
Netherlands Indies Gumpyo Gulden (NIDJ) 1905 1943 38 WWII
Ethiopian Silver Talari (ETT) 1893 1931 38 WWII
Union Latine Franc (XULF) 1889 1927 38 Latin Monetary Union
Union Latine Lira (XULL) 1889 1927 38 Latin Monetary Union
Haiti Piastre Gourde (HTT) 1776 1814 38 Replaced by HTS
Finland New Markka (FIM) 1963 2002 39 EURO
Tibet Silver Rupee (TBR) 1912 1951 39 Conquered by China
Rial Hassani (MAH) 1881 1920 39 Replaced with MARR
North Carolina Proclamation Shilling (CNCP) 1709 1748 39 Act of Independence
French Franc (FRF) 1962 2002 40 EURO
Czechoslovak Hard Koruna (CSK) 1953 1993 40 Renamed CZK
Paraguay Paper Peso (PYP) 1903 1943 40 WWII
Malagasy Franc (MGF) 1963 2004 41 Act of Independence
Sudanese Pound (SDP) 1957 1998 41 Other War
South African Pound (ZAP) 1920 1961 41 Act of Independence
Ottoman Empire Gold Lira (XOTG) 1881 1922 41 WWI
Philippine Peso Fuerte (PHF) 1857 1898 41 Act of Independence
Georgia Colonial Shilling (CGAC) 1735 1776 41 US War of Independence
DDR Ostmark (DDM) 1948 1990 42 Breakup of USSR
Iranian Toman (IRT) 1890 1932 42 Replaced with IRR
Peru Peso (PEP) 1821 1863 42 Replaced with PES at par
Maryland Proclamation Shilling (CMDP) 1709 1751 42 Act of Independence
Polish Heavy Zloty (PLZ) 1950 1994 44 Hyperinflation
Tangier Franco (MATF) 1912 1956 44 Act of Independence
Bulgarian Lev Zlato (BGZ) 1880 1924 44 Discontinued
Sao Tome and Principe Mil Reis (STM) 1869 1913 44 Replaced by STE at par
Paper French Colonial Livre (XFCL) 1776 1820 44 Replaced with FRG
Brazil Cruzeiro (BRZ) 1942 1987 45 Hyperinflation
Tonga Pound Sterling (TOS) 1921 1966 45 Act of Independence
Finland Markka (FIN) 1917 1962 45 Hyperinflation
Serbian Dinar (SRBD) 1873 1918 45 WWI
Cape Verde Mil Reis (CVM) 1869 1914 45 Hyperinflation
Massachusetts Old Tenor Proclamation Shilling (CMAP) 1704 1749 45 Act of Independence
South Carolina Proclamation Shilling (CSCP) 1703 1748 45 Act of Independence
East Africa Shilling (XEAS) 1921 1967 46 Act of Independence
Timor Pataca (TPP) 1912 1958 46 Replaced with TPE at par
French West African Franc (XAOF) 1895 1941 46 WWII
Afghanistan Kabuli Rupee (AFR) 1881 1927 46 Replaced 1.1:1 AFA
Hawaii Dollar (HWD) 1847 1893 46 Replaced with USD
Argentina National Peso (XARP) 1816 1862 46 Hyperinflation
Connecticut Shilling Old Tenor (CCTO) 1709 1755 46 Act of Independence
New Caledonia CFP Franc (NCF) 1945 1992 47 Act of Independence
Luxembourg Mark (LUM) 1871 1918 47 WWI
Haiti Paper Gourde (HTP) 1826 1873 47 Hyperinflation (Indirect)
Greek Drachma (GRD) 1954 2002 48 EURO
South Korean Old Won (KRO) 1905 1953 48 Hyperinflation
Costa Rican Peso (CRP) 1848 1896 48 Renamed CRC
Yugoslav Federation Dinar (YUF) 1945 1995 50 Hyperinflation
North German Vereinsthaler (XDNT) 1857 1907 50 Discontinued
Brazil Reis (BRD) ~1771 1822 51 Hyperinflation
Fiji Pound (FJP) 1917 1969 52 Act of Independence
Trinidad and Tobago Dollar (TTO) 1899 1951 52 Act of Independence
Scandinavian Monetary Union Krona (XSMK) 1872 1924 52 Scandinavian Monetary Union
Paraguay Peso Fuerte (PYF) 1871 1923 52 Discontinued
Western Samoa Pound (WSP) 1914 1967 53 Act of Independence
British West Africa Pound 1913 1966 53 Act of Independence
German Mark (DEP) 1871 1924 53 Hyperinflation
Italian States Lira Austriaca (XITA) 1813 1866 53 Latin Monetary Union
Delaware Colonial Shilling (CDEC) 1723 1776 53 US War of Independence
German Deutsche Mark (DEM) 1948 2002 54 EURO
Maltese Pound (MTP) 1914 1968 54 Act of Independence
Taiwan Yen (TWY) 1895 1949 54 Chinese Civil War
Argentina Gold Peso (ARG) 1875 1929 54 Replaced 1:0.44 ARM
Paper Riksdaler (SER) 1776 1830 54 Replaced with SEO
New Hampshire Old Tenor Proclamation Shilling (CNHP) 1709 1763 54 Act of Independence
Flying 'Cash' (Tang Dynasty) ~806 ~860 ~54 Suppressed by Government
Austria (New) Schilling (ATS) 1947 2002 55 EURO
Bermuda Pound (BMP) 1914 1970 56 Act of Independence
British North Borneo Dollar (BNBD) 1885 1941 56 WWII
Australian Pound (AUP) 1909 1966 57 Act of Independence
French Oceania (Tahiti) Franc (PFG) 1888 1945 57 WWII
East India Rix Dollar (XEIR) 1808 1865 57 Discontinued
Third Mongol Issue (Pao-Ch'ao of Chih-Ta) 1310 1367 57 Hyperinflation
Mozambique Escudo (MZE) 1922 1980 58 Act of Independence
Chinese Dollar/Yuan (Chungking/Shanghai Yuan) (CND) 1890 1948 58 Chinese Civil War
Montenegro Krone (MEK) 1852 1910 58 Replaced with MEP at par
Union Latine Drachma (XULD) 1868 1927 59 Latin Monetary Union
Union Latine Peseta (XULP) 1868 1927 59 Latin Monetary Union
New Zealand Pound (NZP) 1907 1967 60 Act of Independence
Danish Rigsbankdaler (DKR) 1813 1873 60 Scandinavian Monetary Union
Greenland Riksbankdaler (GLR) 1813 1873 60 Scandinavian Monetary Union
Dominican Republic Silver Peso (DOS) 1844 1905 61 Switched to USD (5:1 exchange)
French Franc Germinal/Franc Poincare (FRG) 1803 1864 61 Latin Monetary Union
Iceland Old Krone (ISJ) 1918 1980 62 Hyperinflation
Portuguese Guinea Escudo (GWE) 1914 1976 62 Act of Independence
Union Latine Franc (XULF) 1865 1927 62 Latin Monetary Union
Union Latine Franc (XULF) 1865 1927 62 Latin Monetary Union
Union Latine Franc (XULF) 1865 1927 62 Latin Monetary Union
Union Latine Lira (XULL) 1865 1927 62 Latin Monetary Union
Massachusetts Bay Shilling (CMAB) 1642 1704 62 Act of Independence
Flying 'Cash' (pien-ch'ien of the S'ung Dynasty) ~960 1023 63 Hyperinflation
Suriname Guilder (SRG) 1940 2003 63 Hyperinflation
Andorra Pesseta (ADP) 1936 1999 63 EURO
Sao Tome and Principe Escudo (STE) 1914 1977 63 Act of Independence
Jamaica Pound (JMP) 1905 1969 64 Act of Independence
New Jersey Proclamation Shilling (CNJP) 1682 1746 64 Act of Independence
Danish West Indies Rigsdaler (DWIR) 1784 1849 65 Replaced with DWIF
Mauritius Dollar (MUD) 1810 1876 66 Replaced with MUR
New Caledonia Franc Germinal (NCG) 1874 1941 67 WWII
New York Proclamation Shilling (CNYP) 1709 1776 67 US War of Independence
Pennsylvania Proclamation Dollar (CPAP) 1709 1776 67 US War of Independence
Virginia Proclamation Shilling (CVAP) 1709 1776 67 US War of Independence
Venezuela Bolivar (VEB) 1940 2008 68 Hyperinflation
Danish West Indies Dalare (DWID) 1849 1917 68 WWI
Luxembourg Gulden (LUG) 1848 1918 70 WWI
East India Company Dollar (XEID) 1788 1858 70 Discontinued
Portuguese Account Conto (PTC) 1931 2002 71 EURO
Argentina Paper Peso Moneda National (ARM) 1899 1970 71 Hyperinflation
El Salvador Peso (SVP) 1847 1919 72 Replaced with SVC at par
Vatican City Lira (VAL) 1929 2002 73 EURO
Bulgarian Lev (BGO) 1879 1952 73 Hyperinflation
Afghanistan Afghani (AFA) 1927 2002 75 Hyperinflation
Belgian Congo Franc (CBEF) 1885 1960 75 Act of Independence
Russian Paper Ruble (RUEP) 1843 1918 75 Russian Civil War
Russian Assignatzia (RUEA) 1768 1843 75 Replaced 3.5:1 RUES
Nicaragua Gold Cordoba (NIG) 1912 1988 76 Hyperinflation
Portuguese Mil Reis (PTM) 1835 1911 76 Hyperinflation
Madeira Islands Milreis (IPM) 1834 1910 76 Replaced with PTE
Thailand Silver Tical (THT) 1851 1928 77 Replaced with THB
Moroccan Franc (MAF) 1881 1959 78 Hyperinflation
Portuguese India Rupia (INPR) 1881 1959 78 Conquered by India
Guatemala Peso (GTP) 1847 1925 78 Replaced with GTQ
Honduras Peso (HNP) 1847 1926 79 Replaced with HNL
Irish Pound (IEP) 1922 2002 80 EURO
British Honduras Dollar (BZH) 1894 1974 80 Act of Independence
Romania Silver Leu (ROS) 1867 1947 80 Hyperinflation
Netherlands Rijksdaalder (NLX) 1690 1770 80 Replaced with XEIR
Colonial Shilling (XCCS) 1694 1776 82 US War of Independence
Great Ming Precious Notes 1368 1450 < 82 Hyperinflation (at least six different issues)
Turkish Lira (TRL) 1922 2005 83 Hyperinflation
French India Roupie (INFR) 1871 1954 83 Ceded to India
Sarawak Dollar (SWKD) 1863 1946 83 WWII
German States Convention Thaler (XDCT) 1753 1838 85 Convention of Dresden
Newfoundland Dollar (NFLD) 1865 1952 87 Joined Canada
Paper Luxembourgian Franc (LUF) 1914 2002 88 EURO
Straits Settlements Dollar (STSD) 1857 1946 89 WWII
Szechaun Paper (Sixteen Issuing Houses) 1024 1114 90 Hyperinflation
Portuguese Escudo (PTE) 1911 2002 91 Hyperinflation
Pound Sterling (CAP ) 1766 1858 92 Act of Independence
French Indochina Piastre (ICFP) 1862 1955 93 Act of Independence
Hyderabad Sicca Rupee (INRH) 1858 1951 93 Replaced with INR
Reunion Franc Germinal (REG) 1851 1944 93 WWII
Greenland Krone (GLK) 1873 1967 94 Discontinued
Portuguese Guinea Mil Reis (GWM) 1879 1974 95 Act of Independence
Taiwan Tael/Dollar (TWT) 1800 1895 95 Conquered by Japan
Bahamas Pound (BSP) 1869 1966 97 Act of Independence
Austro-Hungarian Convention Gulden (XATC) 1759 1857 98 Austro-Hungarian Monetary Union
Bolivia Boliviano (BOL) 1863 1962 99 Hyperinflation
Russian Empire Paper Ruble (RUEP) 1818 1917 99 Russian Civil War
Danish Rigsdaler Courant (DKC) 1713 1813 100 Replaced 5:1 DKR
Hui-Tze (S'ung Dynasty) 1159 1263 104 Hyperinflation
Ceylon Rupee (LNR) 1872 1978 106 Act of Independence
Algerian Franc Germinal (DZG) 1851 1959 108 Hyperinflation
Chilean Peso/Condor (CLC) 1851 1959 108 Hyperinflation
Franc Guiana (GUF) 1851 1959 108 Act of Independence
Guadeloupe Franc (GPF) 1851 1959 108 Act of Independence
Martinique Franc (MQF) 1851 1959 108 Act of Independence
Mongol First Issue 1260 1368 108 Hyperinflation
Greek Silver Drachma (GRS) 1833 1944 111 WWII
Paper Daler (SEP) 1665 1776 111 Replaced with SER
Uruguay Peso Fuerte (UYF) 1862 1975 113 Hyperinflation
Portuguese Reis (PTR) 1797 1911 114 Hyperinflation
Ecuador Sucre (ECS) 1884 2000 116 Switched to USD
Netherlands East Indies Guilder (IDDG) 1828 1945 117 WWII
Italian Lira (ITL) 1882 2002 120 EURO
Peru Sol (PEH) 1864 1985 121 Hyperinflation
Spanish Peseta (ESP) 1874 2002 128 EURO
Austrian Paper Gulden (ATP) 1753 1892 139 Replaced 1:2 ATK
Belgian Franc (BEF) 1835 2002 167 EURO
Mexico Silver Peso (MXP) 1822 1992 170 Hyperinflation
Netherlands Guilder (NLG) 1814 2002 188 EURO
I'm jealous of those lucky souls who lived in places where the money system collapsed in 3 months or less.
I've been the tortoise my whole life can I be the hare just once?
<< <i>Good grief...the majority on your list are not fiat related nor less than 60 years old or from Industrialized countries still in existence. I'm sure you can dig up thousands of currency's that are no longer with us since antiquity. >>
That was the original point. Fiat currencies never survive. They may reinvent themselves or do numerous devaluations along the way. But, eventually they all fail.
The US currency has had several iterations. One backed/redeemable by precious metals, then redeemable for other paper (bearer on demand), and
today...not redeemable for anything. A long fiat currency life is approx 80-120 years.
Never understood this bitcoin thing. To me it just felt like another Ponzi play. Those in first make out.
<< <i>
<< <i>Good grief...the majority on your list are not fiat related nor less than 60 years old or from Industrialized countries still in existence. I'm sure you can dig up thousands of currency's that are no longer with us since antiquity. >>
That was the original point. Fiat currencies never survive. They may reinvent themselves or do numerous devaluations along the way. But, eventually they all fail.
The US currency has had several iterations. One backed/redeemable by precious metals, then redeemable for other paper (bearer on demand), and
today...not redeemable for anything. A long fiat currency life is approx 80-120 years.
Never understood this bitcoin thing. To me it just felt like another Ponzi play. Those in first make out. >>
Please list those countries that are still on the gold standard. If the gold standard was such a utopian marvel, why is it no longer in existence? Your fiat currency is "redeemable" in all the items that your "heart desires," including gold. All you have to do is: buy it.
I fully agree, that bidcoin appears nothing buy a Ponzi sheme. Did Bernie think that one up to?
What other precious material(s) are stored in those central bank vaults other than gold? I can't think of any. The world no longer redeems gold for
fiat because it is far too valuable. It is hoarded by the citizens of European and Asian nations. Yes, technically not a "complete" gold standard on paper. But the fact
that 109 nations/central banks report gold holdings suggest there is a gold standard in play, even if mostly symbolic. FRN's are symbolic as well. They represent
debt that to date the US govt says it will cover. Fiat currency is no monetary standard. There's no "standards" at all. There have times in recent history when one's
fiat currency couldn't buy them hardly anything, and certainly not gold. The dollar has been refused at times around the world. So you couldn't whip out your Bens and
expect to buy what you wanted. You'd have had to first convert to the local currency at a participating bank or trade into gold/silver.
The bottom line is that no matter how much fiat currency you could muster up, you couldn't go out and buy the world's gold supply of 165,000 tonnes of gold. The reverse
is quite true however. Sure seems like a gold standard to me. The CB's shroud their gold dealings with one another in great secrecy, even to the point of double counting
gold leases and gold swaps. Why would they be so careful if there was not some sort of gold standard currently in play? There is as much of a gold standard in play today
between central banks as there was during the peak of the gold standard from 1900-1906. But, call it anything you like. When CB's empty their vaults of the $1.6 TRILL in
gold and replace it with an additional $1.6 in printed paper money, then I would concede there is no longer a gold "standard." The BLS has revamped the CPI numerous times
since 1983 to the point that we just don't have any significant inflation any more....because the index says so. But, we're all smart enough to know that changing definitions
doesn't change reality. Similarly, stating we have no formal gold standard as existed prior to August 15, 1971 doesn't mean a "gold standard" doesn't exist. It was "wished"
away over 40 yrs ago, but the barbarous relic is still very alive in CB vaults. Gold's fiat redeemability was taken away, not it's other standards.
Gold's primary roles during its gold standard hey day was to act as circulating money, serve as bank reserves, and be a final debt extinguisher. The debt extinguisher (terminator)
and reserve roles are still around today. Those are 2/3 of the old gold standard. Paper or digi-money doesn't extinguish debts. They only transfer who holds the debt. The debt
never goes away....it only increases. Gold's reserve role is being strengthened with Basil 3 defining gold as a tier 1 asset. That's a return to one of gold's orig standards.
No one ever claimed that the gold standard was a utopian marvel. But it is true that both England and the USA's best growing centuries came when they were on gold standards and
the rest of the world beat feet to our shores. Like any other standard, the gold standard could be cheated upon. And the CB's did just that. As soon as WW1 kicked in the FED
effectively jettisoned the gold standard so that they could print money to fund the war. It was never brought back to its full standard as the real bills doctrine was never reinstituted.
There was plenty of cheating on the gold standard occuring in the 19th century too. As long as there are bankers as well as "regulators" who watch the bankers...there will be
cheating....regardless of the standards applied.
<< <i>
<< <i>Our fiat currency is going to fail just like 599 others that have done that before. >>
Really? Very unlikely, in my opinion, and not in our life time. I also realize that your above commend comes straight out of a Doomsayer mindset. 599 currencies that failed? I can only think of 7 from so "called industrialized countries" that failed (3d world currency's are always failing, but the fiat fiat currency was seldom the primary cause of failure) in the last 60 years and one was WWII related. True, during the 1920th we had the Weimar Republic that failed, but the underlying failure was do to numerous reasons, fiat currency being just one of them. >>
There are several posters here that think the US Dollar is going to "fail" ... they will go their graves certain of it, and will be still be just as wrong about it then as they are today
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
It is also naive to think that dollar/euro/pound did not lose their purchasing power over the decades but more likely one oz of gold can buy you comparable amount of gas, bread or chicken legs in then and now in the country of your choice.
Under management of the FED since 1913, the dollar itself has failed to keep its value, losing more and more value over time. This loss of purchasing power is equivelent to continually adding zeros to it. I call that a failure. At least Zimbabweans can actually see their added zeros.
It is already a domestic failure. It will be around as long as the FED has the power to create it; the fact that they have to keep creating record numbers of dollars has nothing to do with a growing economy and everything to do with a failing dollar. It has failed to maintain domestic purchasing power or to protect wealth, savings or retirements. Were it not for law making it the only acceptable legal tender it would have gone by the wayside years ago.
Graphs and pics not necessary to illustrate these truths. Any rational person that has been saving or spending dollars for more than ten years experiences the consequences of dollar failure and dollar management failure first hand.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
other fiat currencies that are also falling in purchasing power. The sleight of hand here is the average guy doesn't realize that the USDX is a relative index and not an absolute one.
A steady USDX of .80 to .83 seems like a good thing. But, it doesn't address whether its net purchasing power is falling....and neither does the current CPI.
By any measure of valuation, all the currencies of the 20th century have been major failures. That's why the govts had them.
The dollar in name will still exist decades from now. But in that time it will be reworked, devalued and distorted such that it will resemble nothing like today's dollar. Fiat currencies
are used to transfer wealth from the poor to the rich. That's why they exist and are so popular with govts.
<< <i>Yes, technically not a "complete" gold standard on paper. But the fact that 109 nations/central banks report gold holdings suggest there is a gold standard in play, even if mostly symbolic >>
RR...not mostly symbolic, but 100% symbolic. Again, there is not one nation that is currently under a "gold standard." In your line of thought, it appears, that anyone who owns gold is on a symbolic gold standard? To me, it's just another investment, albeit that does not pay any dividends.
<< <i> To me, it's just another investment, albeit that does not pay any dividends. >>
It's Bernanke insurance.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
So, let me get this line of thinking straight...
1. Poor people have wealth that is available for transfer
2. The reason fiat currencies exist ( primary reason, we assume? or do you mean "only" reason?) is to take this wealth the poor have and move it over to the rich.
(are these the "banksters", or do you mean all wealthy people like you and me? Is someone a "bankster" simply because they are not poor?)
3. Non-fiat currencies, presumably, exist for other reasons that serve society well
3. We conclude that this, Fiat Currency, is the primary reason poor people are poor, and rich people are rich?
Not the way the rich and the poor spend their time, the amount of education they receive, or the decisions they make in life, nor the random happenstance of accidents of time, or the vagaries of place and circumstance, nor any of the other institutions of humanity, it's evil Fiat Currency that is the primary problem?
Is this what you are saying?
And therefore it follows that Gold, and the Gold Standard are the (primary, or is it only only?) cure for this problem?
(lots of poor people and fewer rich people, and the unfair taking of the wealth, which of course is measured in this very same " fiat currency" that's so reviled, from the poor and giving it to the rich)
And if it weren't for that dastardly "fiat currency" ( that everyone happens to measure productive effort and material value with),
then we would be living in a Utopia, where everyone had the same amount of (non-"fiat") money?
Is that about it? Your comments welcome and encouraged.
(edited for punctuation, spelling, and to add paragraphs for easier reading and responding to)
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Fiat currencies are used to transfer wealth from the poor to the rich. That's why they exist
So, let me get this line of thinking straight...
1. Poor people have wealth that is available for transfer
2. The reason fiat currencies exist ( primary reason, we assume? or do you mean "only" reason?) is to take this wealth the poor have and move it over to the rich.
(are these the "banksters", or do you mean all wealthy people like you and me? Is someone a "bankster" simply because they are not poor?)
3. Non-fiat currencies, presumably, exist for other reasons that serve society well
3. We conclude that this, Fiat Currency, is the primary reason poor people are poor, and rich people are rich?
Not the way the rich and the poor spend their time, the amount of education they receive, or the decisions they make in life, nor the random happenstance of accidents of time, or the vagaries of place and circumstance, nor any of the other institutions of humanity, it's evil Fiat Currency that is the primary problem?
Is this what you are saying?
And therefore it follows that Gold, and the Gold Standard are the (primary, or is it only only?) cure for this problem?
(lots of poor people and fewer rich people, and the unfair taking of the wealth, which of course is measured in this very same " fiat currency" that's so reviled, from the poor and giving it to the rich)
And if it weren't for that dastardly "fiat currency" ( that everyone happens to measure productive effort and material value with),
then we would be living in a Utopia, where everyone had the same amount of (non-"fiat") money?
Is that about it? Your comments welcome and encouraged.
(edited for punctuation, spelling, and to add paragraphs for easier reading and responding to) >>
Ohh ooh I know this one , Alex.
What is reducto ad absurdum ? .
<< <i>
<< <i> To me, it's just another investment, albeit that does not pay any dividends. >>
It's Bernanke insurance. >>
Yup, but a very costly one.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i> To me, it's just another investment, albeit that does not pay any dividends. >>
It's Bernanke insurance. >>
Yup, but a very costly one.
initial policy charge, self paying premiums.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
<< <i> RR...not mostly symbolic, but 100% symbolic. Again, there is not one nation that is currently under a "gold standard." In your line of thought, it appears, that anyone who owns gold is on a symbolic gold standard? To me, it's just another investment, albeit that does not pay any dividends. >>
It's far from 100% symbolic with 31,000 tonnes of it sitting in central bank vaults....and growing as the BRICS continue to add to supplies. China is adding on the order of 500-1000
tonnes per year. Symbolic? They are spending real Yuan, dollars, and TBonds to buy that production. Anyone who owns gold is not on a gold standard, but merely protecting or
hedging themselves from a monetary system w/o standards. But if you're wealthy enough to own 1 tonne or more of gold to place you equal to or higher than the 108th country on
that gold list, and it represents at least 5% of your total wealth, then I'll concede you are on your own gold standard.
The University of Texas would therefore qualify as being on a gold standard with $1 BILL in gold representing 5% of their total portfolio. The downside is that the gold is vaulted in NY
under the watchful eyes of HSBC. Yeah, the same guys that run the GLD gold ETF. Univ of Texas purchased the gold by April 2011 when gold was still under $1500/oz. If it were me
I'd find another vault somewhere in Texas not owned by one of the too-big-to-jail banks.
For Baley:
1. Yes, the banks will take whatever money the middle class and poor people can muster. They aren't choosy.
2. Yes, the reason for fiat currencies is to fleece the public and transfer it to the elite. This also allows the govt to gain further control of their lives as their dependency on govt
increases. A constant downward cycle. The elite aren't you and I unless you happen to have >9 figure wealth.
3. There are presently no non-fiat currencies. Gold is the closest thing though. But, gold is no fix for this ailing system.
4. Yes, we can conclude that Fiat Currency and the ills that it drags along is the primary reason that middle class & poor people are getting poorer....while the top 1-5% get richer.
Coincidence that average real wages have been in decline since 1973....just 1-2 yrs after leaving what remained of the gold standard? A lot of baggage comes along with fiat
currency, most notable is the lack of checks and balances on debt. 47% of the population now depends on ever growing fiat money handed out by govt. It's not about to stop.
5. Some individuals can break into the cycle of #4, but for the most part the ultra rich continue to get richer. Yes, evil fiat has been the problem for 40 yrs now.
Gold is not the solution, just one means for the under-rich to protect what wealth they do have. When fiat currency wasn't doing this fast enough, the banksters came
up with otc derivatives to act as their own alternative money. If that doesn't continue to work for them, they'll come up with something else (bail-ins, stealing from segregated
accounts, etc.).
There was a reason the founding fathers didn't want to have fiat currencies and made it illegal to use anything but gold and silver coins in payment of debts. They knew that unbacked
paper money could eventually mortgage the nation right back to the moneyed powers. If fiat wasn't so evil, the FF's would have happily included it into our constitution. The Coinage
Act of 1792 (sect 19) made it punishable by death to debase authorized gold and silver coinage. You think the FF's would be surprised by the dollar debasement over the past 100 yrs?
The FF's certainly seem to be saying that anything but sound gold and silver coinage is basically an evil. Hundreds of years of failed paper currencies taught them that lesson. Looks like
we're going to learn the same lesson again....selling off the nation in the process. Fractional reserve banking with a fiat currency is just another Ponzi scheme. That fact that the govt
does it doesn't mean it's not an evil. Anyone glancing at our 100 yr sovereign debt & entitlements charts would come to the conclusion that something is very broken. Evil is one way
to describe it. But, I think criminal is a better choice.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Yes, technically not a "complete" gold standard on paper. But the fact that 109 nations/central banks report gold holdings suggest there is a gold standard in play, even if mostly symbolic >>
RR...not mostly symbolic, but 100% symbolic. Again, there is not one nation that is currently under a "gold standard." In your line of thought, it appears, that anyone who owns gold is on a symbolic gold standard? To me, it's just another investment, albeit that does not pay any dividends. >>
It's far from 100% symbolic with 31,000 tonnes of it sitting in central bank vaults....and growing as the BRICS continue to add to supplies. China is adding on the order of 500-1000
tonnes per year. Symbolic? They are spending real Yuan, dollars, and TBonds to buy that production. >>
They're buying Bernanke insurance as well.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
Down about 75%
I think it's likely that someday in the future gold will have less value. It can either drop because other materials replace it or at some point they can mine it from space or deep earth cheap enough to devalue it. Probably not in my lifetime but probably in the younger peoples lifetime.
Something like this Twilight zone episode:
Wiki about a Twilight episode with devalued gold
<< <i>I better spend my sea shells quick
Down about 75%
I think it's likely that someday in the future gold will have less value. It can either drop because other materials replace it or at some point they can mine it from space or deep earth cheap enough to devalue it. Probably not in my lifetime but probably in the younger peoples lifetime.
Something like this Twilight zone episode:
Wiki about a Twilight episode with devalued gold >>
That's always a possibility, but I think before jumping into space, they'll find an economic way to mine the oceans sea waters.