New PCI Holdered Coins are worse than the Gold Labeled Era
Tdec1000
Posts: 3,852 ✭✭✭
See for yourself.... do a quick search on ebay for PCI under the coins category. There is a dealer with a whole slew of these and is flooding the market with highly overgraded stuff. Coins graded as MS64 are really just AU's.
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Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
EAC 6024
<< <i>do you mean rare-coin-exchange? >>
Bingo!
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<< <i>Flashbacks. >>
Groundhog day?
Lance.
http://www.shieldnickels.net
<< <i>They aren't supposed to be able to list PCI in the title or description nor list a number grade or list that the coin is graded as it's considered raw according to Ebay rules since Ebay doesn't recognize them as a real grading company. I saw hundreds of PCI coins currently on Ebay both old and new which really tickets me off becuase Ebay doesn't police there own rules and I get tons of PCI coins on consignment and I play by the rules
I agree..
One thing that bothers me almost as much as their grading is the new labels.
Not sure if it an optical illusion or or me or what, but most of their new labels
seem tilted right (clockwise) a couple degrees. All the grading companies have
a rare occasional problem here but these just look cheesy IMHO.
Even on their homepage.. Link
<< <i>They aren't supposed to be able to list PCI in the title or description nor list a number grade or list that the coin is graded as it's considered raw according to Ebay rules since Ebay doesn't recognize them as a real grading company. I saw hundreds of PCI coins currently on Ebay both old and new which really tickets me off becuase Ebay doesn't police there own rules and I get tons of PCI coins on consignment and I play by the rules
My reading of the rules suggests it's OK to say PCI in the title, but they can't put a numerical grade in the title or text of the description.
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/currstamps.html
So I believe the PCI listings by rare-coin-exchange are compliant with the rules.
Of course the numerical grade is clear in the photo of the slab.
So the distinction between no numerical grade in description text and "anything goes" in the photo is possibly being abused.
One could list :
1934-S Peace Dollar Graded PCI MS
From eBay policy :
Coins that have been graded by another company can still be listed, but the numeric grade can't be mentioned in the title, description, or item specifics. However, you can include an image of the coin in its graded holder even if that image shows a numeric grade on the holder
1908-S Indian Head Cent Penny 1C CHOICE AU++ Key Date High Value PCI
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"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
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<< <i>I wonder how long it will be until Rule 7 is invoked.
Doesn't RULE 7 State, "...except PCI."?
<< <i>It's unfortunate because there are a lot of uniformed buyers out there. eBay should put a nix to these but they won't. >>
If there weren't uniformed buyers, the coin biz would be a much smaller market.
<< <i>It's unfortunate because there are a lot of uniformed buyers out there. eBay should put a nix to these but they won't. >>
Since when is it ebay's job, or anyone for that matter, to save uninformed buyers from themselves?
<< <i>Since when is it ebay's job, or anyone for that matter, to save uninformed buyers from themselves? >>
Not exactly their job, but in their interest to do things such as trying to keep outright counterfeits out of the listings.
As for 2nd tier slabs, they seem to have a good compromise position (allow them, but prevent them from equating to the more accurately graded slabs).
Somebody will always be trying to fool the buyers, but it's still worth trying to reduce those sorts of listings with a few clear rules.
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<< <i>Since when is it ebay's job, or anyone for that matter, to save uninformed buyers from themselves? >>
Not exactly their job, but in their interest to do things such as trying to keep outright counterfeits out of the listings.
As for 2nd tier slabs, they seem to have a good compromise position (allow them, but prevent them from equating to the more accurately graded slabs).
Somebody will always be trying to fool the buyers, but it's still worth trying to reduce those sorts of listings with a few clear rules. >>
I can see your point. I just think it better for the market participants to sort it out on their own, and not the market venue.
This dealer will ultimately harm coin collecting. When uninformed buyers realize that they've been ripped off, they will leave coin collecting and, probably, never return. It's in the best interest of coin dealers that this type of activity be stopped. I think that responsible coin dealers should try to monitor their own markets.
<< <i>Since when is it ebay's job, or anyone for that matter, to save uninformed buyers from themselves?
This dealer will ultimately harm coin collecting. When uninformed buyers realize that they've been ripped off, they will leave coin collecting and, probably, never return. It's in the best interest of coin dealers that this type of activity be stopped. I think that responsible coin dealers should try to monitor their own markets. >>
Wow...very intuitive.
<< <i>Are they consistant in their over grading or all over the place with grades? >>
Some of these third world grading companies have two grading standards---liberal grading for coins owned by the grading service owner and more conservative grading standards for outsiders submitting coins to be graded.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
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<< <i>See for yourself.... do a quick search on ebay for PCI under the coins category. There is a dealer with a whole slew of these and is flooding the market with highly overgraded stuff. Coins graded as MS64 are really just AU's. >>
You don't trust the free market to determine winners and losers? I know several coin wholesalers that specialize in ugly bottom 1% PCGS and NGC slabbed coins (but they are cheep cheep cheep!) but looking at those dealer's inventories one could conclude that almost all PCGS and NGC coins are overgraded, spotted, washed out overdipped or so darkly toned that they should be considered environmentally damaged, but you would not make that claim based on a few dealers who specialize in junk, and marketing to those who only care about the grade on the insert as long as they think they are snagging a bargain. So to make a claim about the quality of the new PCI slabs based on one dealer's ebay listings and by looking only at internet photos is simply inconclusive. Are the $75 NGC MS70 moderns "highly overgraded" compared to the $1000 PCGS MS70 moderns? Or are PCGS MS70 moderns "highly overpriced?" Which of those 2 services should eBay shut out to "protect" someone who has done no research on what they are buying?
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I agree with you.
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"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
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as silly as that show was it sure did have some good points at one time or another