1878 CC Trade $1 - real or fake???

mbogoman · March 14, 2013 7:29AM

Here are the seller's photos of an 1878 CC Trade $1. I don't like the rim on the obverse nor the weak denticles on the reverse. There also appear to be some candy-corned ones. It actually looks pretty decent otherwise. If the focus was better it might be easier. Is there anything else that screams "fake" or am I just seeing things?

lordmarcovan · March 14, 2013 7:45AM

Sorry, no idea.

If it IS fake, it's a good enough fake to have fooled me, I guess.

That's the kind of coin I'd prefer to buy in plastic.

stealer · March 14, 2013 7:46AM

It is one of the more uncommon mintmark positions (centered and even) and does show what appears to be a diagnostic die line above the first T in STATES that I've seen on the only one I have ever found graded of this marriage, but your coin does have some extra die scratches in the dentils adjacent to UNITED that aren't seen on the graded coin and
they appear very extensive. Shouldn't be much to sweat about though. Rims are okay, and the difference in the strength of dentils seems to appear on most if not all marriages of this date. The lighting the image was taken in is not optimal, and gives the coin a pewter look to it, but I would imagine that it looks okay in hand.

If you could provide additional images before committing to your purchase it may help the process. From this set of images it looks okay.

AUandAG · March 14, 2013 7:58AM

real.

bob

LindeDad · March 14, 2013 8:02AM

PVC and cleaning mean it will not grade.

With the history of this series I would pass on this coin even at a great price.

lordmarcovan · March 14, 2013 8:10AM

<< PVC and cleaning mean it will not grade.

With the history of this series I would pass on this coin even at a great price. >>

Even at a GREAT price?

Depends on HOW great a price, I suppose. I mean, even in a "Genuine" or "details" TPG holder, it has some value.

LanceNewmanOCC · March 14, 2013 8:17AM

<< 

<< PVC and cleaning mean it will not grade.

With the history of this series I would pass on this coin even at a great price. >>

Even at a GREAT price?

Depends on HOW great a price, I suppose. I mean, even in a "Genuine" or "details" TPG holder, it has some value. >>

i concur. pvc can be removed and imo it could go for what, $1500-2500?

i'd spend some time comparing it against a few other high-res images. overall looks good but there are a couple minor things that should be compared, date, mm and some of the dentils.

if it has a smooth edge or lettered edge, you should pass

.

TennesseeDave · March 14, 2013 8:21AM

I have been watching the auction, but cannot be completely sure of its authenticity, Nothing about it says fake for sure and its already over the $1000 price level so I'm not gonna bid on it. Hopefully Crypto, DDR, TDN or OriginalDan will weigh in soon.

Icollecteverything · March 14, 2013 8:30AM

Looks like a raised dot near the star behind her head? Maybe a few others too.

mbogoman · March 14, 2013 9:09AM

<< I have been watching the auction, but cannot be completely sure of its authenticity, Nothing about it says fake for sure and its already over the $1000 price level so I'm not gonna bid on it. Hopefully Crypto, DDR, TDN or OriginalDan will weigh in soon. >>

My sentiments exactly. I'm not bidding, either. I posted the pics in hope of an education from the experts.

BTW - The seller has an 1873 CC that looks just as questionable.

stealer · March 14, 2013 9:12AM

<< BTW - The seller has an 1873 CC that looks just as questionable. >>

His 1873 is undoubtedly counterfeit.

lcoopie · March 14, 2013 9:16AM

before the experts arrive, I will guess fake

crypto79 · March 14, 2013 9:48AM

I have my concerns but would stop just short of calling it 100% fake. I would have to dig up the 4known rev dies and compare. Seems like a lot of work for at best a problem coin being sold at full value

LanceNewmanOCC · March 14, 2013 10:52AM

<< 

<< BTW - The seller has an 1873 CC that looks just as questionable. >>

His 1873 is undoubtedly counterfeit. >>

link for us busy (lazy) coin peeple ty
.

TennesseeDave · March 14, 2013 11:54AM

<< 

<< 

<< BTW - The seller has an 1873 CC that looks just as questionable. >>

His 1873 is undoubtedly counterfeit. >>

link for us busy (lazy) coin peeple ty

. >>

Here's the 1873-CC

coindeuce · March 14, 2013 11:59AM

Screams fake to me. Look at the pimple on Liberty's left forearm, as well as the random pattern of pimples in the right obverse field to the left of stars 11 and 10. I would not have bid $5 on this.

PreTurb · March 14, 2013 12:05PM

agree with Deuce

MilkmanDan · March 14, 2013 2:36PM

I don't recognize the MM location and the dot behind her head does bother me. It's a better made fake than most, if so.

dcarr · March 14, 2013 4:11PM

Looks fake to me. In addition to the pimples already mentioned, the obverse rims look wrong and the denticles rear "DOLLAR" have that typical fake fuzzy look.

DDR · March 14, 2013 6:27PM

I have on occasion purchased raw Trade dollars on eBay. So, I wouldn't say "never" do it.

But in this case I would not. First, the coin does look a bit off, so it could well be counterfeit. Second, you have to ask yourself, "why is a coin like that --a well-known rarity that is frequently counterfeited-- not in a slab?" Finally, even if you are a bit of a gambler, at that price, $1000+, the risk-to-reward ratio is not in your favor.

I would avoid that coin.

keoj · March 14, 2013 8:09PM

I'm pretty sure that it is a fake. The reverse looks to be a IIM hub type. This is not a correct hub type for this date/mintmark. I would check this carefully.

And yes, there are 4 reverse dies that were used in 78 at Carson City.

EVillageProwler · March 14, 2013 8:33PM

<< I'm pretty sure that it is a fake. The reverse looks to be a IIM hub type. This is not a correct hub type for this date/mintmark. I would check this carefully.

And yes, there are 4 reverse dies that were used in 78 at Carson City. >>

Come to a coin show. It's been too long!

EVP

mbogoman · March 14, 2013 9:41PM

Thanks for the comments, they're just what I was hoping for. I never intended on bidding on this thing, especially at such a high price - I had way too many doubts. I mentioned a few of them in my OP and left a few out intentionally (raised dots) so as not to poison the pot. I thought it was a fairly decent fake and could provide a good education. I think somebody is going to be disappointed when they receive it...

mbogoman · March 14, 2013 10:58PM

I just noticed that both coins were yanked yesterday and have now just been re-listed as 1 day auctions. Makes me think the seller knows they are fake and wants to get rid of them ASAP...

LanceNewmanOCC · March 15, 2013 2:56AM

.
1 down, 1 to go
.

MsMorrisine · March 15, 2013 3:17AM

well mccfrm has bin's on there and if determined to be fake, even closed auctions can be taken down.

coindeuce · March 15, 2013 3:33AM

Reported. There is no rational reason for a seller to cancel a live 7 day listing that has reached a level over $1,000 in bids, just to relist as a one day offer and have it sell for $600. This seller is obviously trying to game the system.

1878 CC Trade $1 - real or fake???

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