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CBH forensics
lkeigwin
Posts: 16,895 ✭✭✭✭✭
I've enjoyed owning CBH's of different types and variety, grade, and die state. It's fun and educational, and because so much was not hubbed (lettering, stars, denomination...even the dentils and shield crossbars and stripes) varieties are all over the map.
Here's an 1814/3 O.101a I especially like. I was taking a good look at it the other day and marveling at its condition.
The 1814/3 overdate is often weakly struck and this is no exception. Formerly owned by Jules Reiver, this is a very LDS with just about every conceivable sign of wear and mint problem. Stars are drawn to the rim, denticles are missing, rims are worn to the letters and date numerals, it's weakly struck on both sides, the reverse has impressive clashing, and there are signs of die erosion and spectacular end-of-life cracks. On top of all that it's an overdate.
It appears the reverse die was clashed more than once. I played around with my photo editor, using a different 1814 that was free of any clashing (O.109) to build a mock-up reverse clash image. I tried rotating the obverse image in order to line up clash marks to match the 1814/3 but had trouble making it work without offsetting the two images (the sides do not sit precisely on top of one another). Do dies sometimes clash like this? Or is there another explanation?
I'm stumped over how the clashing to the right of eagle's right wing occurred. I'm guessing Liberty's curls are to blame but I can't find the pattern. And what are they doing over there? Maybe it's not clashing but die damage? The lines are raised. The clashing under the same wing (right of shield) is also strange but it appears this area might have been hit more than once.
What's going on under the 4 in the date? Is that a cud or a start of one?
The dentils are prominent on the top obverse but no where else. Planchet of uneven thickness? Misaligned dies?
Feel free to share any observations and insights you have. Lots of forensic experts here.
Lance.
Here's an 1814/3 O.101a I especially like. I was taking a good look at it the other day and marveling at its condition.
The 1814/3 overdate is often weakly struck and this is no exception. Formerly owned by Jules Reiver, this is a very LDS with just about every conceivable sign of wear and mint problem. Stars are drawn to the rim, denticles are missing, rims are worn to the letters and date numerals, it's weakly struck on both sides, the reverse has impressive clashing, and there are signs of die erosion and spectacular end-of-life cracks. On top of all that it's an overdate.
It appears the reverse die was clashed more than once. I played around with my photo editor, using a different 1814 that was free of any clashing (O.109) to build a mock-up reverse clash image. I tried rotating the obverse image in order to line up clash marks to match the 1814/3 but had trouble making it work without offsetting the two images (the sides do not sit precisely on top of one another). Do dies sometimes clash like this? Or is there another explanation?
I'm stumped over how the clashing to the right of eagle's right wing occurred. I'm guessing Liberty's curls are to blame but I can't find the pattern. And what are they doing over there? Maybe it's not clashing but die damage? The lines are raised. The clashing under the same wing (right of shield) is also strange but it appears this area might have been hit more than once.
What's going on under the 4 in the date? Is that a cud or a start of one?
The dentils are prominent on the top obverse but no where else. Planchet of uneven thickness? Misaligned dies?
Feel free to share any observations and insights you have. Lots of forensic experts here.
Lance.
Coin Photography Services / Everyman Registry set / BHNC #213
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Comments
Those transparency overlays are terrific, too.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
Edgar Souders is the person I know that does the best with showing die clashing and rotated die clashing pictures. Edgar wrote the book BUST HALF FEVER, a book I highly recommend. The second edition might still be found, but I do not know this for a fact.
Lance.
I imediately PM'd to find out if I could have it...
That's about the closest thing to a cud I've seen on a CBH...which brings me to something I've been curious about. Why no cuds in the CBH series ?
Massive mintages compared to the DBH's with very similar minting techniques I would imagine...yet no cuds ? Odd...
nice overlay
the particular coin you used looks very nice
.
The first two are XF40. Top one is E/A variety (another train wreck). The third one is an AU50 with typical clashing. And the last is an AU55...EDS with proof-like fields and no clashing. That's the one I used for the mock-up.
Lance.
1. Use your overlay on the left.
2. The double lines curving down to the right are NOT the lowest part
of the bust. They ARE the top part of the drapery.
3. Line up the crease in the top part of the bust drapery material that
connects to the clasp, with the 2nd U in PLURIBUS.
4. The clash lines below the left claws are the top of the cap (clashed 3 times).
5. The clash below the eagle's right wing (our viewed at the left) are the letters
LIB and are upside down. These are clashed numerous times.
6. The clashes right of the shield are the tied knot of LIBERTY's headband, behind
her head.
7. The clashes to the right of the eagle's left wing (our right) are the outlines of
Liberty's lower back hair curls.
8. If you haven't already, go to CoinFacts for 1814/13 images & at least three of them
are similar to your coin's clashes.
9. The 4 apparently started to develop die cracks from rim to each side of the 4 and
eventually the lower segment broke away, I presume.
10. With an open collar & excessive use of dies, they suffered from misalignment and die
erosion at times. Clash marks were prevalent for DBHs during this era & clash marks
occured at least 3 or more times on your piece, with subtle placement differences.
Your coin may have been struck just slightly off center, I suspect.
You may have to wiggle and play with your overlay, but I think it will fit.
You provided great images, great looking coins and a very interesting 1814/13 O-101a to
think about.
R.I.P. Bear
"2. The double lines curving down to the right are NOT the lowest part
of the bust. They ARE the top part of the drapery."
I think you referring to the lines I circled in red. The ones that are very commonly clashed under UNUM.
"3. Line up the crease in the top part of the bust drapery material that
connects to the clasp, with the 2nd U in PLURIBUS."
Okay, but that would mean when the dies collided they were very off center to one another. Maybe only 60-70% of the two touched. But I'm going to run with it. It would look something like this:
"4. The clash lines below the left claws are the top of the cap (clashed 3 times)."
Agreed. I circled this in red in the OP.
"5. The clash below the eagle's right wing (our viewed at the left) are the letters
LIB and are upside down. These are clashed numerous times."
Also agreed. This is what started me on this effort.
It is an unusual place for the headband letters unless the dies were rotated when they clashed. So I guessed that must be. It is shown in the first mock-up. I used the position and angle of the headband to place obverse inverted image.
"6. The clashes right of the shield are the tied knot of LIBERTY's headband, behind
her head."
Yes.
"7. The clashes to the right of the eagle's left wing (our right) are the outlines of
Liberty's lower back hair curls."
I can buy that, though I can't get the pattern just right. And again, for this to be the case it means when the collision happened the two dies were very off center, with maybe just 2/3 of them meeting.
"8. If you haven't already, go to CoinFacts for 1814/13 images & at least three of them
are similar to your coin's clashes."
Thanks for that suggestion! Perfect. I see even more clashes with still more orientations. My head is starting to hurt.
"9. The 4 apparently started to develop die cracks from rim to each side of the 4 and
eventually the lower segment broke away, I presume. "
Coinfacts images show varying degrees of this. The OP's is the furthest along.
"10. With an open collar & excessive use of dies, they suffered from misalignment and die
erosion at times. Clash marks were prevalent for DBHs during this era & clash marks
occured at least 3 or more times on your piece, with subtle placement differences.
Your coin may have been struck just slightly off center, I suspect."
Very off center, it would seem. And these two dies clashed many times. I had no idea. It would be fun to chronicle the progression of this marriage...see cracks develop, the repeated clashing, die erosion, maybe some maintenance (though it looks like Mint workers gave up on this one).
The die pair pumped out 115k kids, and that was after an obverse marriage from 1813 and probably prior reverse duty too. Hard labor.
Thanks again for the pointers!
Lance.
U.S. Type Set