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Fake GSA Dollars?
Onedollarnohollar
Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭✭
Has there ever been a Chinese (or any other for that matter) Fake Morgan silver dollar encased in a Fake GSA slab before? I was just thinking how blindly I have purchased GSA's
off of Ebay and how ripe I (or others) would be for some unscrupulous person to take advantage. Obviously they (the coins) generally stay entombed forever, you can purchase certificates of
authenticity and GSA boxes online, and the average (unsophisticated, untrained eye) person would just accept it (says "uncirculated silver dollar" on the slab doesn't it?) as real and put it
away for the future. What do you say? Ever heard of anything like this happening?
off of Ebay and how ripe I (or others) would be for some unscrupulous person to take advantage. Obviously they (the coins) generally stay entombed forever, you can purchase certificates of
authenticity and GSA boxes online, and the average (unsophisticated, untrained eye) person would just accept it (says "uncirculated silver dollar" on the slab doesn't it?) as real and put it
away for the future. What do you say? Ever heard of anything like this happening?
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Not my area, but I'd venture a guess that the risk of this is pretty small indeed. Could it happen? Yeah.
Is there likely to be much of it out there? My guess would have to be no.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
Years ago I had purchases three GSA's on Ebay, and 83, 4, and 4. Made a Best offer and got
them at a reasonable price. When the PO delivered them there were two that the cases were
in two pieces and one still okay. I just chalked it up to PO problems as they appeared to be
packed just okay. So, sent all three to PCGS, two raw and one still in the holder. Well, got
the two back as Gennies and the other as a 64. I never really did a close inspection of the
two in the broken Gov't holders, just packaged them up and shipped them off.
They were not fakes but they had been messed with and fooled my cursory look. I think the
seller had opened the cases and switched coins with others that had been messed with.
Can't prove anything, just intuition and years doing GSA's.
Order #20068715 / Submission #9059149
Line # Item # Cert # PCGS No. CoinDate Denomination Variety Country Grade
1 1 10799938 7152 1884-CC $1 USA MS64
1 2 10799939 7152 1884-CC $1 USA Genuine (94 - Altered Surf.)
2 1 10799940 7144 1883-CC $1 USA Genuine (94 - Altered Surf.)
Fakes, no. Switched coins, maybe. Certainly messed with and seller attempted to re-glue. I
have been more careful and observant since then. It must be pretty easy to break open and
re-seal.
bob
Guess which one is the fake...
Note the cloudy/milky tone of the tampered with holder, whereas the good holders are clear.
<< <i>Considering that they even fake common coins now what makes you think some of them aren't? >>
Good point.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
It pays to be vigilant.
Aren't the GSA holders pretty tough? Looking at mine it appears the seam is difficult to crack open, without destroying the case.
<< <i>They have been faking the double mint sets from the 40's and 50's for years- long enough for the coins to tone and fool the unsuspecting. >>
Please correct me Darktone, but to my recollection isn't there a difference between the mint set suspicions and the original post? Is anyone claiming the coins in the mint sets are reproductions? Or just the mint set holders and toning? I hadn't heard anyone claim that they'd found double mint sets with fake coins.
Greg Lewis (Bushmaster 8) used to have the same suspicions but with a couple diffences. If I remember correctly he had what he thought were individual examples of coins with mint set toning characteristics that he thought were faked. But to my knowledge he never produced a whole set or or pointed one out which for sale that he thought was fake (to me at least) He seemed to focus more on individual coins with very individualistic characteristics that caused his suspicions. I hate to speak for him and wish he were here.
I've owned tons of these sets and purchased them far and wide, never very many in any one place and was skeptical of Bushmaster's claims. In my mind the paper and cardboard are so specific from year to year and I can't imagine they would be exactly reproducible on the first, second or even third try, and I always thought I would have come across one that caused the alarms to go off if they were chinese fakes.
That being said, there is no arguing that majority of double mint sets now do not have all (or any in some cases) of the original coins.
(Edited for readability)
<< <i>I have not seen any Chinese counterfeits, but have seen GSA holders that have been tampered with, where a more rare date/mint mark was substituted for a common date/mint mark.
Guess which one is the fake...
Note the cloudy/milky tone of the tampered with holder, whereas the good holders are clear. >>
Does the front/back of the tampered holder look any different or show any tampering evidence?
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In addition, depending on how carefully the original coin was removed, the three "nubs" that hold the coin (and are visible on the reverse of the holder) might be damaged. In my case, they had been broken off and were not there in the tampered-with holder.
Sorry for the poor picture, but notice no nubs.
GSAcollector:
What coin is in that fake holder?
<< <i><<I've never seen a fake, but have seen cases that have been opened and coins switched.>>
Aren't the GSA holders pretty tough? Looking at mine it appears the seam is difficult to crack open, without destroying the case. >>
That I could not tell you. I have not tried it myself. However, I will say that I've seen "empty" ones
for sale on Ebay. Only once, but the guy had six. I contacted him, he was a dealer, he removed them
before they sold with my urging. He said he'd removed some CC's to send for grading. So, it must
not be too difficult.
bob
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