Alternative to eBay

scottandelli · February 9, 2013 3:49AM

I posted this in the currency forum a couple of weeks ago (because that is I reside most of the time

)

Hey guys...

For a long time now, I have been fed up with eBay, and for that matter, all the other auction sites... and if I'm not mistaken, you have as well. There are just too many problems with these sites; unethical sellers, shilling, doctoring, listing fees and the ever rising seller's premium. When we try to alert them to these issues, it falls on deaf ears. All this works against good, honest buyers, sellers and collectors. Awhile back, I gave this some serious thought and asked myself, "No use whining about it, what can I do to change the situation?"

Many of you know me from the boards, some I have met in person. I am a Top-Rated and Power Seller on eBay (coin-aholic), and have been on eBay since 1998. In 'real-life', I am an award-winning game designer, having created 10 top-ten games, 6 number one titles and two highly successful IPs. I consider myself a pro-active person, and not one to accept the status quo. I decided I would do something about the 'eBay problem' and I have come up with a solution.

We all love to go to the money shows. I know I do! The basic monetization model for a show is: dealers rent space for a flat fee, and keep the profits from whatever sales they make. The only problem with a live show is that the time the public has access to the wares is limited, and there are travel expenses, etc. A typical local show lasts three days, with public having access for around 19 hours out of 72... that's only 26% of the time, and a wasted 74%. The eBay problems we already know, but there are no travel expenses, and potential customers have access 24/7. I thought to myself, 'what if I can take the best of the two models and create a better place for us to buy and sell our coins and currency?'

I did... and I call it Numishow. Numishow.com is a virtual money show, which allows a seller to rent space (for less than a live show!), list their items and give the buying public access 24/7. After the flat booth fee, there are no other costs (other than a 2% credit card fee the bank charges for the ecommerce portal.) Whatever profit you make, you keep. "Sell your money, keep your cash.' Ebay sellers... what did you pay in auction fees last month? $100? $250? More? I know when you see the site, and do the math, you will see the benefit of this model. Sellers get to keep their profits, and buyers will enjoy lower prices (since sellers need not jack them up to cover profits lost to fees.)

I invite you all, friends, to check the site out, sign up and visit often. I have put in a lot of time, effort and resources to make this THE site we use for our needs. I also would love to hear your feedback.. I have several features that will be coming online in the near future, and if there are features you want first, I will work to get them added asap.

Thanks, and hope to see you there.

Scott Hansen

PS: Oh, and I would love to hear feedback from whoever wants to give it!

Constantine · February 9, 2013 4:07AM

Numishow.com

PerryHall · February 9, 2013 5:05AM

BST Solicit the best offer and you don't have to sell if you don't get your price. And it's free.

CoinZip · February 9, 2013 5:14AM

I wish you luck in your adventure......

scottandelli · February 9, 2013 5:22AM

<< BST Solicit the best offer and you don't have to sell if you don't get your price. And it's free. >>

That feature is being coded now... will be live 1st week March.

LanceNewmanOCC · February 9, 2013 5:26AM

<< and if I'm not mistaken, you have as well. There are just too many problems with these sites; >>

you are mistaken, for me at least. i really am not meaning to be combative or argumentative but i am of the VERY strong opinion that most of the time when i hear someone complaining life has taught me it is "them and/or their attitude" that is the problem "the majority" of the time. why you ask? well i'll say why i think this is:

attitude, patience, be able to let things go, ability/willingness to learn, lack of creativity, focus and much more. usually a combination of these.

ebay isn't the problem, it is people's desperation and compromised morals. if it wasn't ebay they would be scamming through, it would be something else i guarantee it.

life is full of problems (problems are based on perceptions) and to get away from problems (perceptions), well you need to change your perceptions. whom is able to do this is up to them and them alone.

also if counterfeits/altered coins are someone's complaint, well i see more than most on and off ebay and i can honestly say it hasn't slowed down what i buy nor has it made me paranoid about getting "taken."

the number one solution i've found to most complaints is education.

having said all that, i don't have to be "sick" of something to want choices/alternatives and openly welcome a site that is even 1/100 what ebay is for numismatics

how i sell as alternatives to ebay, if they can be considered alternatives to ebay that is: selling via text/phone, email, shops, shows, meetings at businesses/restaurants, newspaper, magazines, bst on various coin forum sites and at least half a dozen other auction alternatives.

ok i've put in my 2 1/2 cents, ty for the opportunity for free speech!

.

LindeDad · February 9, 2013 5:27AM

That sure is one very long uphill road your traveling friend.

Lmman · February 9, 2013 5:41AM

<< 

<< and if I'm not mistaken, you have as well. There are just too many problems with these sites; >>

you are mistaken, for me at least. i really am not meaning to be combative or argumentative but i am of the VERY strong opinion that most of the time when i hear someone complaining life has taught me it is "them and/or their attitude" that is the problem "the majority" of the time. why you ask? well i'll say why i think this is:

attitude, patience, be able to let things go, ability/willingness to learn, lack of creativity, focus and much more. usually a combination of these.

ebay isn't the problem, it is people's desperation and compromised morals. if it wasn't ebay they would be scamming through, it would be something else i guarantee it.

life is full of problems (problems are based on perceptions) and to get away from problems (perceptions), well you need to change your perceptions. whom is able to do this is up to them and them alone.

also if counterfeits/altered coins are someone's complaint, well i see more than most on and off ebay and i can honestly say it hasn't slowed down what i buy nor has it made me paranoid about getting "taken."

the number one solution i've found to most complaints is education.

having said all that, i don't have to be "sick" of something to want choices/alternatives and openly welcome a site that is even 1/100 what ebay is for numismatics

how i sell as alternatives to ebay, if they can be considered alternatives to ebay that is: selling via text/phone, email, shops, shows, meetings at businesses/restaurants, newspaper, magazines, bst on various coin forum sites and at least half a dozen other auction alternatives.

ok i've put in my 2 1/2 cents, ty for the opportunity for free speech!

. >>

Well said.

scottandelli · February 9, 2013 9:39AM

I appreciate your comments... I enjoy dialogue

<< 

<< and if I'm not mistaken, you have as well. There are just too many problems with these sites; >>

you are mistaken, for me at least. i really am not meaning to be combative or argumentative but i am of the VERY strong opinion that most of the time when i hear someone complaining life has taught me it is "them and/or their attitude" that is the problem "the majority" of the time. why you ask? well i'll say why i think this is:

attitude, patience, be able to let things go, ability/willingness to learn, lack of creativity, focus and much more. usually a combination of these. >>

Agreed, but does that mean there are no genuine problems that do not fall into those categories?

<< ebay isn't the problem, it is people's desperation and compromised morals. if it wasn't ebay they would be scamming through, it would be something else i guarantee it. >>

Here's the issue with eBay... when they are contacted about an unethical seller, it falls on deaf ears. Scammers are everywhere, sure... always will be. Does that prevent one from trying to do something about it? One unethical seller puts a taint on all sellers...

<< life is full of problems (problems are based on perceptions) and to get away from problems (perceptions), well you need to change your perceptions. whom is able to do this is up to them and them alone. >>

Sorry, but problems are not based on perceptions. To use a hypothetical example, would the problem of an asteroid racing toward the Earth go away by changing my perception of it? No.

<< also if counterfeits/altered coins are someone's complaint, well i see more than most on and off ebay and i can honestly say it hasn't slowed down what i buy nor has it made me paranoid about getting "taken." >>

Here, you're assuming everyone has your level of experience and knowledge. What about newcomers to the hobby? Do you expect them to have the same level as you? Shouldn't they get some consideration, and a level of protection from honest, reputable dealers?

<< the number one solution i've found to most complaints is education. >>

Knowledge is power... agreed. Doesn't solve everything...

<< having said all that, i don't have to be "sick" of something to want choices/alternatives and openly welcome a site that is even 1/100 what ebay is for numismatics >>

I'm reflecting the feelings of the majority of the people I've interviewed in my research...

<< how i sell as alternatives to ebay, if they can be considered alternatives to ebay that is: selling via text/phone, email, shops, shows, meetings at businesses/restaurants, newspaper, magazines, bst on various coin forum sites and at least half a dozen other auction alternatives.

ok i've put in my 2 1/2 cents, ty for the opportunity for free speech!

. >>

All well and good... I'm offering a solution to someone who can't do that. Case in point:

John is a dealer who sells only a small local shows on the weekends. He spends most of his time caring for his elderly parents, and this is how he makes some cash and gets away from the stress. He doesn't have time to do all the other things you mention. Ebay charges too much in fees to make it profitable from him to sell there, but he does want to be online. My site is an excellent solution for him.

Just a few counterpoints for you to think on... thanks again for the comments!

S

coindeuce · February 9, 2013 11:02AM

I just completed a review of 40 pages of Google search engine links, using the simple search phrase "coin auction". I did not find a single link to your website. How do you propose to remedy this? You can have the most appealing format available to sellers, but it is not of much use if buyers don't know of its existence.

scottandelli · February 9, 2013 2:25PM

That would be because the site is not an auction site, and it is less than 3 weeks old... but I am working on SEO.

S

Also, marketing has yet to kick in. First print ads will appear in March in Coins Magazine, Numismatic News, Bank Note Reporter and World Coin News. In addition, my marketing materials are coming in from the printers, so I now have something besides business cards to hand out.

LanceNewmanOCC · February 9, 2013 3:14PM

<< I appreciate your comments... I enjoy dialogue

and if I'm not mistaken, you have as well. There are just too many problems with these sites; >>

you are mistaken, for me at least. i really am not meaning to be combative or argumentative but i am of the VERY strong opinion that most of the time when i hear someone complaining life has taught me it is "them and/or their attitude" that is the problem "the majority" of the time. why you ask? well i'll say why i think this is:

attitude, patience, be able to let things go, ability/willingness to learn, lack of creativity, focus and much more. usually a combination of these.

<< Agreed, but does that mean there are no genuine problems that do not fall into those categories? >>

(problems are only opinions based on perceptions - frued is clapping from his grave if you are wondering what that sound is

)

<< ebay isn't the problem, it is people's desperation and compromised morals. if it wasn't ebay they would be scamming through, it would be something else i guarantee it. >>

Here's the issue with eBay... when they are contacted about an unethical seller, it falls on deaf ears. Scammers are everywhere, sure... always will be. Does that prevent one from trying to do something about it? One unethical seller puts a taint on all sellers...

(i can assure you the hundreds (literally) of reports that i have reported have not fallen on deaf ears. i know because i have an extremely detailed tracking system that would make the nsa proud and i have personally contacted tons of buyers and informed them of their defunct purchase(s) and saved thousands upon thousands of dollars for these folks although the point was ebay doing or not doing something, but i thought i'd throw my efforts in the mix as i did use the ebay software to find these people)

<< life is full of problems (problems are based on perceptions) and to get away from problems (perceptions), well you need to change your perceptions. whom is able to do this is up to them and them alone. >>

Sorry, but problems are not based on perceptions. To use a hypothetical example, would the problem of an asteroid racing toward the Earth go away by changing my perception of it? No.

(i'll say this until the day i become worm food. problems are ONLY based from perceptions. some see problems, some see opportunity. education and experience teach this to those willing to learn. email me at oldcollectorcoins@gmail.com and read some or all of the quotes in my signature and tons of the others i have laying around. some of the best (diverse) ones out there.)

<< also if counterfeits/altered coins are someone's complaint, well i see more than most on and off ebay and i can honestly say it hasn't slowed down what i buy nor has it made me paranoid about getting "taken." >>

Here, you're assuming everyone has your level of experience and knowledge. What about newcomers to the hobby? Do you expect them to have the same level as you? Shouldn't they get some consideration, and a level of protection from honest, reputable dealers?

(i expect accountability (accountability is not synonymous with punishment just for the record) despite the level of experience and i've been in numismatics for around 4 years with a budget that is probably on par with most 10 year old's lego collections. warren buffet stated, "do not buy what you do not understand" i agree and if we do, we better be willing to accept any outcome, whether it makes us feel all warm and fuzzy inside or if it rips our guts out and sets them on fire. accept/solve/educate instead of complain)

<< the number one solution i've found to most complaints is education. >>

Knowledge is power... agreed. Doesn't solve everything...

(knowledge solves everything. did you really just state it doesn't)

(the problem isn't knowledge or the lack thereof, it is lack of practical application of said knowledge)

<< having said all that, i don't have to be "sick" of something to want choices/alternatives and openly welcome a site that is even 1/100 what ebay is for numismatics >>

I'm reflecting the feelings of the majority of the people I've interviewed in my research...

(the masses are a good way to get an average. an average pathetic set of apathetic (humans and apathy are synonymous too much) opinions. i know it is harsh and risky to say, but it is true. a true average would reflect approx. 2 dozen different groups of people containing millions of interviews and even then it is quite risky. not pickin', just sayin')

<< how i sell as alternatives to ebay, if they can be considered alternatives to ebay that is: selling via text/phone, email, shops, shows, meetings at businesses/restaurants, newspaper, magazines, bst on various coin forum sites and at least half a dozen other auction alternatives.

ok i've put in my 2 1/2 cents, ty for the opportunity for free speech!

. >>

All well and good... I'm offering a solution to someone who can't do that. Case in point:

John is a dealer who sells only a small local shows on the weekends. He spends most of his time caring for his elderly parents, and this is how he makes some cash and gets away from the stress. He doesn't have time to do all the other things you mention. Ebay charges too much in fees to make it profitable from him to sell there, but he does want to be online. My site is an excellent solution for him.

(i for sure never said your site wouldn't be an acceptable alternative, nor did i say you say i did

just covering my basis. but now i will say it, your site is not an acceptable alternative to a coin show for someone to sell nor ebay (how can i say such a thing you ask. well ebay has facilitated a place that has permitted i would say well into the hundreds of trillions of dollars in sales if not more and they have spent more purchasing companies than 99% of companies will ever even make. i sell a large percentage online but i will never say it is better than in-person transactions, at least i hope i don't, despite what ebay has to offer. i also know people that have made more money over the phone than a lot of people will make via ANY method. blows me away even today)

Just a few counterpoints for you to think on... thanks again for the comments!

(my responses are just as you say, dialog, and i'll add with a small twist of friendly debate. (i

specifics - my brain doesn't stop tearing and ripping everything i think apart. i argue all my points for and against until both are exhausted, so these types of conversations are par for the course for me. i say that so you don't think this is an emotional response but only what it is, just another line of thinking for me and i eagerly look forward to see how what i say is perceived and potentially responded to. if not, i'm sure there will be plenty more opportunities on this forum as i have about a 2500 posts per year PPY average at just around 7 per day for 2 years straight

))

(time for me to catch some zzzs. i have a bourse to walk tomarra)

S >>

scottandelli · February 9, 2013 4:28PM

I think what we are debating is semantics... I think a 'problem' is a tangible thing, and that we have a choice on how to deal with said 'problem'. Take the aforementioned asteroid; some will cry and bemoan their fate; some will step up and do everything in their power to over come the problem; some might commit suicide rather than face the problem, while others might simply choose not to believe the problem is real and ignore it altogether, etc. Its not the problem that is perception, but our perception of the problem that drives our responses. Like you say, some will take a problem and turn it into opportunity.. learn from it, grow, evolve.

When I said knowledge is power, but it doesn't solve everything, I meant that knowing something doesn't necessarily solve a problem, it only insulates one from its effects. I can know about counterfeit notes, and how to detect them so I don't get 'taken', but it doesn't make the counterfeits go away, nor stop the counterfeiter. Knowledge without action is useless, IMHO.

I agree that the face-to-face transaction is the best. Not only do I love live shows for the ability to see an item before I buy, but to sit and converse with the dealers and other collectors. The socialization cannot be simulated or fabricated online. In my concept document for this site, I state that I want this site to compliment live shows, not replace them.

I am not thin skinned... being a designer made sure of that! I never thought of this as emotional interaction... I love to hear new opinions, and try to see something from an angle I never could have thought of on my own. Great design (or great anything, for that matter) never happens in a vacuum.

Cheers... have a successful walk on the bourse!

codamyer · February 10, 2013 12:10AM

Im happy your trying a new way to sell outside of Ebay!! I just cant figure out why someone or some company hasent tried to copy the ebay auction format? Anyways here's a couple things I noticed on the new site. Some items had nice emlarged pics and some didnt. I wouldnt even consider a coin for purchase online unless there was really good enlarged pics. I want to know what im buying. So make clear extra large pics manditory for every listing. Wish ebay would do this!! I like the pic sizes that HA.com has on every auction. Im confused with the dealer pricing. 1 month= $1.00 and 3 months= $1.00 but then 6 months = 132.00 Kinda lost with this. Good luck with this venture!!

coindeuce · February 10, 2013 1:58AM

" Im confused with the dealer pricing. 1 month= $1.00 and 3 months= $1.00 but then 6 months = 132.00. Kinda lost with this."

Me too. I did not find this information posted conspicuously anywhere. Is one required to first register as a dealer to find this information?

scottandelli · February 10, 2013 3:05AM

Actually, this is part of a promotion that I'm trying... You can try the site for 3 months for $1. I didn't post it anywhere yet... I'll do that today.

coinman420 · February 10, 2013 5:25AM

<< Actually, this is part of a promotion that I'm trying... You can try the site for 3 months for $1. I didn't post it anywhere yet... I'll do that today. >>

i sent you a PM.

jt88 · February 10, 2013 5:44AM

Sounds like a good idea but you can't get the traffic that ebay get. I have my own site but I sell most on ebay. My site is for show only.

hchcoin · February 10, 2013 6:05AM

I like the concept. I hope you are successful. The biggest thing at this point is getting people to list stuff so that when potential buyers go to the site they have something to look at. Will the site have a "make an offer" button?

smokincoin · February 10, 2013 6:12AM

<< I like the concept. I hope you are successful. The biggest thing at this point is getting people to list stuff so that when potential buyers go to the site they have something to look at. Will the site have a "make an offer" button? >>

We need to see more coins!

mrearlygold · February 10, 2013 6:19AM

Good Luck!

LanceNewmanOCC · February 10, 2013 8:04AM

.
you can make a link in your signature line so people can just click it and go to your site. it isn't against forum rules

just like this

.

scottandelli · February 10, 2013 1:29PM

<< I like the concept. I hope you are successful. The biggest thing at this point is getting people to list stuff so that when potential buyers go to the site they have something to look at. Will the site have a "make an offer" button? >>

Yes... coming first week in March

scottandelli · February 10, 2013 1:29PM

<< 

<< I like the concept. I hope you are successful. The biggest thing at this point is getting people to list stuff so that when potential buyers go to the site they have something to look at. Will the site have a "make an offer" button? >>

We need to see more coins!

>>

AGREED!!

scottandelli · February 10, 2013 1:33PM

<< .
you can make a link in your signature line so people can just click it and go to your site. it isn't against forum rules

just like this

. >>

Done! Cheers

mariner67 · February 10, 2013 2:17PM

Best of luck to you.
A less expensive alternative to eBay is welcomed indeed!

LochNESS · February 10, 2013 3:21PM

<< Also, marketing has yet to kick in. First print ads will appear in March in Coins Magazine, Numismatic News, Bank Note Reporter and World Coin News. In addition, my marketing materials are coming in from the printers, so I now have something besides business cards to hand out. >>

So, a smart seller [who is interested in joining your site] will have their listings ready for the March ad campaign

edited to add: I like that it shows how many users are online (center bottom). I'm also impressed that there are five other people besides myself at 1:35AM on a Sun night / Mon morning. So far everything I've seen looks aesthetically pleasing

hchcoin · February 11, 2013 7:24AM

There is another thread that talks about the psychology of online auctions and I think all the points are relevant and should be considered regarding numishow.com. For example, I don't see the ability on the new website to have an auction. Will buyers be attracted to a site with just buy it now???????????? Here is a link to the other thread.

Psychology of online auctions

scottandelli · February 11, 2013 1:31PM

<< There is another thread that talks about the psychology of online auctions and I think all the points are relevant and should be considered regarding numishow.com. For example, I don't see the ability on the new website to have an auction. Will buyers be attracted to a site with just buy it now???????????? Here is a link to the other thread.

Psychology of online auctions >>

I've actually studied some of the relevant psychology for this area for my social game designs. There are actually interesting phenomena that occur between the standard auction and the silent auction formats. I hope to add a silent auction to the site sometime soon. There is also some overlap with BIN + Negotiate and Auction formats. If the buyer has a chance to haggle, there will be similar interaction as the negotiation will trigger many of the same neurological responses that an auction does.

As to reserves, my research seems to show that many do not bid because they are not want to strive towards an unknown goal. With less interaction, the momentum that a non-reserved auction gathers is missing.

I was intrigued by an earlier suggestion, and am mulling over a 'free-style auction' format. I would announce an auction start and end date. Seller could enter items into the auction for a small listing price (still working on the math for just what that would be). It's still early in the concept phase, and I still want to hold to the philosophy of not robbing sellers of profits. I might also have a silent auction format...

S

Alternative to eBay

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