What was the seller's net fee for the 1794 US Dollar Sp66??

Ed62 · February 4, 2013 11:12AM

Anyone care to guess?? Was it a negative figure??

LindeDad · February 4, 2013 11:17AM

I really don't see the principles making that public information.

Coinosaurus · February 4, 2013 11:20AM

Remarkable. All the ink spilled on this, and no one has speculated about this yet. Naturally, that won't stop me. I'll guess 108, though to be sure in the end it's between the consignor and the house.

coindeuce · February 4, 2013 11:30AM

<1% of hammer.

GoldenEyeNumismatics · February 4, 2013 7:42PM

<< Remarkable. All the ink spilled on this, and no one has speculated about this yet. Naturally, that won't stop me. I'll guess 108, though to be sure in the end it's between the consignor and the house. >>

I think you're in the right ballpark. 108-112% would be my guess......... the publicity and prestige is more important than making money on that one.

ColonelJessup · February 5, 2013 6:18AM

Won't say from whom, but I know of $1M coins that have netted hammer +10% (15% vig). Probably now hammer +12% at 17.5%.

LindeDad · February 5, 2013 6:25AM

I thought the juice was still 15% for the big bucks deals?

illini420 · February 5, 2013 6:45AM

<< I thought the juice was still 15% for the big bucks deals? >>

It seems that it no longer the case and that every buyer pays 17.5% there. I think the preferential 15% fee for the high dollar buyers was a short-lived idea.

DIMEMAN · February 5, 2013 6:50AM

Egads....at 17.5%....the buyers fee on 10 million would be another 1.75 million!!!!!!!!!!

ColonelJessup · February 5, 2013 7:22AM

Please be disabused of this notion. Very few within the trade get less than 105% on hammer + 15%. Excessive buybacks can affect the final rate. Unreserved get the best rate.

A rebate of part of the buyers fee on "heavy wood" is available to anyone with the street smarts to ask for it. Maybe heirs and executors (retail consignors) don't have this information and pay more. Ya think?

At higher levels, more due diligence goes on today than in the past.

My guess on Cardinal's commission rate is

But who could blame you for asking

coindeuce · February 5, 2013 8:01AM

I think the Colonel has a pretty good view point on the issue. I was speculating a bit more optimistically on Cardinal's net proceeds from the opposite direction, but for a coin of this magnitude, it would be downright foolish for a consignor not to expect hammer plus 10%. And Martin isn't exactly what the house would consider as a drive-by consignor. The man has a veritable trove to consider playing the market with, and the PR for the house on handling this coin is well worth going the extra yard for a consignor, especially one with remarkable future potential.

2ndCharter · February 5, 2013 8:18AM

I thought the juice was still 15% for the big bucks deals?

The OP was asking about the seller's fee, not the buyer's fee.

LindeDad · February 5, 2013 9:10AM

<< I thought the juice was still 15% for the big bucks deals?

The OP was asking about the seller's fee, not the buyer's fee. >>

The Colonel brought up the fee and I was asking about it.

pennyannie · February 5, 2013 10:23AM

I am sure we will never know but i would be surprised if Legend/TDN/George paid a full buyers fee on the coin. I would wager they did not.

tradedollarnut · February 5, 2013 10:26AM

Yes we did. I don't know exactly what Cardinal paid but I'm certain it was a record amount.

Greeniejr · February 5, 2013 10:37AM

My guess is that Cardinal received at least 110% to 112.5% of hammer but who knows. I would guess it had to be low enough to convince Cardinal to sell it for $10 million publicly rather than selling it directly to TDN for the same 10 million with a facilitator.

tradedollarnut · February 5, 2013 10:42AM

I highly doubt Cardinal thought in the months prior to the sale that Legend would be the high bidder, so we would not have been on his radar screen for a $10M private transaction.

Greeniejr · February 5, 2013 10:48AM

<< I highly doubt Cardinal thought in the months prior to the sale that Legend would be the high bidder, so we would not have been on his radar screen for a $10M private transaction. >>

Had Cardinal come to you and offered the coin to you and asked you what you would pay, what would you have offered either privately or with a facilitator.

tradedollarnut · February 5, 2013 10:52AM

I have no idea

roadrunner · February 5, 2013 10:55AM

I would figure the consignor netted somewhere in the range of 94-97% of full market value (ie final price realized). That's the same as 110.5% - 114% of hammer.

Legend was assessed the 17.5% buyer's fee on their invoice but clearly backed off their bid by 17.5%. The consignor likely negotiated the seller's fee to 0% and
the buyer's fee down to 3.5% - 6.5%. Any dealer wanting the seller to eat an 8-10% or larger buyer's fee wouldn't have gotten the consignment.
The buyer's and/or seller's fees can never be negative, but can be taken to 0%. Anything less than "hammer + 17.5%" suggests a positive buyer's fee.

MrEureka · February 5, 2013 10:55AM

am sure we will never know but i would be surprised if Legend/TDN/George paid a full buyers fee on the coin.

No US auction firms offer discounted buyer's premiums, unless the discount is offered to all bidders. (For example, discounts for cash/check vs credit card, or the short-lived and bizarre Stacks-Bowers discount for 50K+ invoices.) Some European auction firms do things differently, though.

WTCG · February 5, 2013 10:57AM

Everybody pays the full percentage of the BP with no exceptions. Seller's fees are negotiable depending on factors like reserves, content of consignment, buyback rate, etc.

tradedollarnut · February 5, 2013 10:57AM

Yes, clearly we factored the buyer's fee into our final bid - which we calculated far in advance. That's why buyers fees only really matter to the buyer when they are confusing to figure on the fly..

roadrunner · February 5, 2013 11:22AM

Yes, everyone "pay's a full BP on their invoices. And 99% of seasoned bidders subtract that BP from their auction bids. Net effect is that the seller pays the BP
depending on what % above hammer that they can negotiate away. If they can negotiate hammer + 17.5%, then the BP is effectively 0%. The fact that the 17.5%
shows up on the buyer's invoice is merely slight of hand. Spin it any way you like though. Reality, and not terminology is what's important here. No bidder pays a 17.5%
"entry fee" for the privilege of participating at a coin auction....unless they fail to back the BP out of their bids.

Lakesammman · February 5, 2013 1:30PM

Like everyone else, I have no inside information - but would be surprised if it was negotiated on one coin and not the entire consignment - my WAG is a 50:50 split of the 17.5% for the entire deal.

2ltdjorn · February 5, 2013 1:36PM

Mo' Money Mo' Problems...

pennyannie · February 6, 2013 2:56AM

<< Mo' Money Mo' Problems... >>

LOL

There are 2 happy campers (TDN & Cardinal) and a lot of armchair quarterbacks. (me included) Hopefully you did not get hit with a shipping fee and insurance.

What was the seller's net fee for the 1794 US Dollar Sp66??

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