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Reconsideration Service, my results are in. And I am happy!
Wabbit2313
Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭
I have heard nothing but complaining about this service, of course, mostly by those who have not even used it.
I sent in 12 coins, and 2 upgraded. one, 1 point, and the other 2.
-So many comments about paying money to fix a mistake PCGS made in the first place. Geez, in 25 years, some Human graders, grading 25 Million coins might have made a mistake? For shame!!
-If the same graders made a mistake grading it higher, you now expect to be "paid" for their mistake on a regrade. Some send in a coin time after time, hoping, praying, begging, for a mistake to be made, to the high side. If it happens, PCGS is the greatest show on Earth. If they crack out a 66, and it comes back 64, (mistake fixed for free), they go on a rant that usually leads to a lifetime ban!!!
I, for one, am happy to know that, no matter how nice I think those 12 coins are, only 2 really were that nice.
I'll post all the specifics later, as to which ones went up.
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Is the 1% actually the difference in the grade (e.g. coin increased in value from $500 to $750, and were charge 1% on $250) or is it for the full price?
I was charged 1% of the total price of the new grade according to the website price. As an example, if the website MS-66 price is $1000, I paid the grading fee and 10 bucks, only on the upgraded ones. I would NEVER have cracked those out and sent it raw by the way. Now I know, and am happy, as stated.
Did the two that upgraded get reholdered in the new 3 prong along with the Secure Gold Shield?
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
I am glad that the service worked out for the OP.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Since the other 10 did receive a second look, do they get reholdered in the new 3 prong along with the Secure Gold Shield? that's the new thing collectors look for now.
Did the two that upgraded get reholdered in the new 3 prong along with the Secure Gold Shield? >>
The 10 that did not get a positive reconsideration were not cracked out, but were instead returned in the same condition as submitted.
<< <i>I was charged 1% of the total price of the new grade according to the website price. As an example, if the website MS-66 price is $1000, I paid the grading fee and 10 bucks, only on the upgraded ones. I would NEVER have cracked those out and sent it raw by the way. Now I know, and am happy, as stated. >>
So, let me get this straight. You originally paid to have them graded, sent them in for reconsideration, and for the ones they thought they made a mistake on, they charged you the grading fee again, PLUS a 1% fee?
Whereas, someone sending the coin in raw would have only had to pay the normal grading fee with no extra upcharges? That makes no sense.
I guess I'm having a problem with the rationale for that extra 1% for the privilege of correcting their own alleged mistake. Whether sent in raw or not, someone still has to look at the coin so that's just a normal part of the grading service AFAIC. If anything I'd think you should get a discount, not an upcharge. Or am I missing something here?
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Yes, your missing something.
Thanks.
<< <i>
<< <i>I was charged 1% of the total price of the new grade according to the website price. As an example, if the website MS-66 price is $1000, I paid the grading fee and 10 bucks, only on the upgraded ones. I would NEVER have cracked those out and sent it raw by the way. Now I know, and am happy, as stated. >>
So, let me get this straight. You originally paid to have them graded, sent them in for reconsideration, and for the ones they thought they made a mistake on, they charged you the grading fee again, PLUS a 1% fee?
Whereas, someone sending the coin in raw would have only had to pay the normal grading fee with no extra upcharges? That makes no sense.
I guess I'm having a problem with the rationale for that extra 1% for the privilege of correcting their own alleged mistake. Whether sent in raw or not, someone still has to look at the coin so that's just a normal part of the grading service AFAIC. If anything I'd think you should get a discount, not an upcharge. Or am I missing something here? >>
Defies common logic doesn't it? OTOH why should PCGS be obligated to regrade every coin for free if they got it right the first time? If the reconsideration rate remains low, it seems like a better deal to charge for the few that upgrade than to charge for the multitude that remain the same and are presumably correct. I don't know of many/any places that redo good work for free.
<< <i>Yes, your missing something.
Thanks. >>
Do enlighten me then.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>
<< <i>Yes, your missing something.
Thanks. >>
Do enlighten me then. >>
Just the mere fact that your coin is going up a minimum of 1 full point or nothing is invaluable, at least to me.
Hey, if you don't like the service, don't use it. But stop knocking it, because I think it is great, and am happy to pay for it. If PCGS was trying to somehow find some hidden money, more than 2 of my coins would have gone up, since I hand picked them from about 500, and picked the best. Also, 1% is laughable, considering the attention your coin is getting under this scenario.
Cheers!
When you, say, go to a restaurant and order spaghetti with meatballs and you are served only spaghetti, when you ask the waiter to correct the mistake, are you OK with it when the waiter says "Sure, but I'll have to charge you again for the meal, plus a little extra for getting it right"...?
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>I'm just curious... for those who like this service....
When you, say, go to a restaurant and order spaghetti with meatballs and you are served only spaghetti, when you ask the waiter to correct the mistake, are you OK with it when the waiter says "Sure, but I'll have to charge you again for the meal, plus a little extra for getting it right"...? >>
You obviously are never going to use the service, and that is your right, but go complain somewhere else. I had a positive experience, and wanted everyone, including PCGS staff to know it! I think it is a great, long overdue idea. It may only be that way for a select few, but that doesn't make it wrong or bad. You can continue to crack and send, or lose your old holder to the same grade new holder if you want, or you can use this new service. Lots of choices to keep everyone happy!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Yes, your missing something.
Thanks. >>
Do enlighten me then. >>
Just the mere fact that your coin is going up a minimum of 1 full point or nothing is invaluable, at least to me.
Hey, if you don't like the service, don't use it. But stop knocking it, because I think it is great, and am happy to pay for it. If PCGS was trying to somehow find some hidden money, more than 2 of my coins would have gone up, since I hand picked them from about 500, and picked the best. Also, 1% is laughable, considering the attention your coin is getting under this scenario.
Cheers! >>
For 12 coins, the first time around you spent close to 500. The second time, another 500. Two upgraded for a 1000 increase in value.
I'd say you broke even and that's good enough.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>
For 12 coins, the first time around you spent close to 500. WRONG!
The second time, another 500. WRONG!
Two upgraded for a 1000 increase in value. DOUBLE WRONG!!
I'd say you broke even and that's good enough. TRIPLE WRONG!!! >>
<< <i>
Defies common logic doesn't it? OTOH why should PCGS be obligated to regrade every coin for free if they got it right the first time? If the reconsideration rate remains low, it seems like a better deal to charge for the few that upgrade than to charge for the multitude that remain the same and are presumably correct. I don't know of many/any places that redo good work for free. >>
I never said they should do it for free; I'm not sure where that came from. There are costs involved in reholdering something, I understand that... but if I did something and got it wrong then that by definition is not "good work"...and I'd at least cut the person a break on the cost of the "redo" in the interest of customer service, not to mention that it's the right thing to do in such a situation IMO. I wouldn't charge them the same amount, and I most assuredly wouldn't charge them more for fixing my own mistake. That's all I'm saying.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>
<< <i>Since the other 10 did receive a second look, do they get reholdered in the new 3 prong along with the Secure Gold Shield? that's the new thing collectors look for now.
Did the two that upgraded get reholdered in the new 3 prong along with the Secure Gold Shield? >>
The 10 that did not get a positive reconsideration were not cracked out, but were instead returned in the same condition as submitted. >>
I can see now that
* Coins Required for Secure Service: 1. All World (non-U.S.) coins except for Modern service level coins dated 1965 to date. 2. Any coin valued at $50,000 or higher.
Obviously, this Gold Shield's not be for everybody.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>
For 12 coins, the first time around you spent close to 500. WRONG!
The second time, another 500. WRONG!
Two upgraded for a 1000 increase in value. DOUBLE WRONG!!
I'd say you broke even and that's good enough. TRIPLE WRONG!!! >>
>>
if the website MS-66 price is $1000, I paid the grading fee and 10 bucks, only on the upgraded ones.
The standard fee wasn't $32 per? Than there's insurance and shipping both ways.
Did you have to send more money to have the coins shipped back since two coin's values upgraded?
Having a break down of your costs would help levitate fears others may be having using this service.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>I do not consider these reconsideration upgrades to be "mistakes". Standards change over time, market expectations change over time, grading experience changes over time, opinions change over time, and the context of one coin in the sea of many others that a grader has seen is fluid. Perhaps a small minority (low single digit percent or lower) were true "mistakes", but to generalize and call these upgrades, reflecting changes of opinions, "mistakes" is incorrect and irresponsible, IMO. >>
Eloquent.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Defies common logic doesn't it? OTOH why should PCGS be obligated to regrade every coin for free if they got it right the first time? If the reconsideration rate remains low, it seems like a better deal to charge for the few that upgrade than to charge for the multitude that remain the same and are presumably correct. I don't know of many/any places that redo good work for free. >>
I never said they should do it for free; I'm not sure where that came from. There are costs involved in reholdering something, I understand that... but if I did something and got it wrong then that by definition is not "good work"...and I'd at least cut the person a break on the cost of the "redo" in the interest of customer service, not to mention that it's the right thing to do in such a situation IMO. I wouldn't charge them the same amount, and I most assuredly wouldn't charge them more for fixing my own mistake. That's all I'm saying. >>
Sorry; I replied to your post and made a general statement to the board. My misunderstanding. I was under the assumption that they only charged a grading fee for the ones that bumped. Looks like they charge for all coins reviewed and only charge extra for the bumpers.
After all, if the holder is not an issue why not just do regrades and save the 1% premium guarantee? Coins that deserve a bump will get it, coins that deserve a lower grade will be covered by the PCGS guarantee.
About the only other reason I can think of, besides wanting to keep the old holders, is if there is concern about the coins being unnecessarily exposed to the elements.
Lance.
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
The fact that you can retain an old holder if the piece does not upgrade is certainly appealing to me personally.
Looking forward, one wonders what will happen to the gravitas of an old holder as it relates to a potentially undergraded coin.
Old holders will always be appealing to me because they indicate where the coin has been for a couple of decades or more.
Kudos to PCGS for coming up with this service. Smart business.
You just spent a lot of money for plastic and labels, but you still own exactly the same coins. Your collection did not improve from this reconsideration process. I personally prefer to spend my money on acquiring new coins, and not on plastic.
I am not a dealer. I am just a collector of coins, so you probably want to dismiss my opinion.
<< <i>Seems to me that when a collector uses the Reconsideration Service they THINK the coins that they are sending in may/should be in a higher grade AND they want the ASSURANCE that if they don't qualify for a higher grade they will get their coins back in the same grade they were. They do NOT want to take a risk of a downgrade. THAT guarantee is the reason someone would be willing to pay the 1% fee which in most instances is a minimal extra charge. The decision to send a coin into PCGS for an upgrade will cost a collector the grading fee regardless if it is in a PCGS holder or is raw. Steve
Is it certain that an overgraded coin submitted for reconsideration will be returned as it was submitted instead of PCGS applying its guarantee?
I realize PCGS has said "if it doesn't upgrade it will not be cracked". But I have not read about their position on reconsideration coins with improper lofty grades. Does PCGS really want to put an overgraded coin back in the marketplace?
Lance.
<< <i>After all, if the holder is not an issue why not just do regrades and save the 1% premium guarantee? Coins that deserve a bump will get it, coins that deserve a lower grade will be covered by the PCGS guarantee. >>
Both Regrades and Crossovers are subject to the 1% tax. as well as high dollar coins sent in raw. This is explained on the new 2013 Submission form.
On Regrades and Reconsiderations if the coin is not worthy of the current grade the PCGS guarentee kicks in.
<< <i>
<< <i>After all, if the holder is not an issue why not just do regrades and save the 1% premium guarantee? Coins that deserve a bump will get it, coins that deserve a lower grade will be covered by the PCGS guarantee. >>
Both Regrades and Crossovers are subject to the 1% tax. as well as high dollar coins sent in raw. This is explained on the new 2013 Submission form.
On Regrades and Reconsiderations if the coin is not worthy of the current grade the PCGS guarentee kicks in. >>
Really? Didn't see that about regrades. I just checked here and didn't see it either.
So are you saying that if you do a reconsideration and the coin isn't worthy of its current grade PCGS will not send it back in its original holder? That is big.
Lance.
i highly recommend people read the extensive thread(s) and links regarding the reconsideration service. all the inquiries and misconceptions have already been addressed
congratz to the OP. sounds like a good opportunity, especially on high-value coins where a lot is at stake and since they aren't cracked out unless they upgrade, no risk of someone damaging the raw coin while being reconsidered. ie: breathing, dropping, scratching during removal etc.
.
<< <i>
<< <i>Seems to me that when a collector uses the Reconsideration Service they THINK the coins that they are sending in may/should be in a higher grade AND they want the ASSURANCE that if they don't qualify for a higher grade they will get their coins back in the same grade they were. They do NOT want to take a risk of a downgrade. THAT guarantee is the reason someone would be willing to pay the 1% fee which in most instances is a minimal extra charge. The decision to send a coin into PCGS for an upgrade will cost a collector the grading fee regardless if it is in a PCGS holder or is raw. Steve
Is it certain that an overgraded coin submitted for reconsideration will be returned as it was submitted instead of PCGS applying its guarantee?
I realize PCGS has said "if it doesn't upgrade it will not be cracked". But I have not read about their position on reconsideration coins with improper lofty grades. Does PCGS really want to put an overgraded coin back in the marketplace?
Lance. >>
Well, let's say they look at a MS65 coin and think, this coin is really a high end MS64. Would it really matter if they downgraded it to a MS64? But what if its a low end MS64 or perhaps a high end MS63? So yeah, maybe......just maybe, I think they should do the right thing. They could give the submitter a call and let them know that they really blew it when they graded the coin the first time around. That letting it back on the market would be an injustice to everyone. Otherwise, they should put something on the slab to let potential buyers know the coin went through this service. Because if they don't, people are going to lie about every other coin they sell, that the coin upgraded through this service.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>i highly recommend people read the extensive thread(s) and links regarding the reconsideration service. all the inquiries and misconceptions have already been addressed.
congratz to the OP. sounds like a good opportunity, especially on high-value coins where a lot is at stake and since they aren't cracked out unless they upgrade, no risk of someone damaging the raw coin while being reconsidered. ie: breathing, dropping, scratching during removal etc.
. >>
I believe I have read all the threads. Can you show me where PCGS says will ignore a blatantly overgraded coin?
Lance.
<< <i>If the OP is happy, why is there so much interest in convincing him otherwise? >>
Steve's right, and Lance, too.
I think it's a great service. Mr. Willis mentioned in a previous thread that it was a service PCGS customers have asked for many times.
RR
Eric
<< <i>If the OP is happy, why is there so much interest in convincing him otherwise? >>
As a good ole HONEST Suthern Businessman because the ethics of this service is totally not fair business practices.
<< <i>
<< <i>If the OP is happy, why is there so much interest in convincing him otherwise? >>
As a good ole HONEST Suthern Businessman because the ethics of this service is totally not fair business practices. >>
How is it not fair?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
<< <i>I do not consider these reconsideration upgrades to be "mistakes". Standards change over time, market expectations change over time, grading experience changes over time, opinions change over time, and the context of one coin in the sea of many others that a grader has seen is fluid. Perhaps a small minority (low single digit percent or lower) were true "mistakes", but to generalize and call these upgrades, reflecting changes of opinions, "mistakes" is incorrect and irresponsible, IMO.
I am glad that the service worked out for the OP. >>
What if it happens within 30 days of the coin being graded? You wouldn't consider that a mistake? How much can standards, market expectations, etc. change in that amount of time? What are "market expectations?" Seems to me that market grading is just foisting off marginal coins [in to non face to face transactions] onto those who buy the plastic over the coin.
(Note:This is merely a rhetorical question... does not require answer... just ignore my questions as usual
Let's say they do upgrade 10% of the time on this reconsideration service. That means their opinion or grading standard has changed 10% OR they want to change the original grade 10% of the time. Maybe 10% of the 10% changed are still mistakes? If the original grade was correct and then it upgrades on reconsideration and gets resubmitted a year later. On this next submission, the 'mistake' of upgrading last time might be caught and their grade guarantee will kick in. I think this is sufficient to justify the new 1% additional fee that has been added to a few services. If you think about it from their business perspective; their cash reserves have been steadily decreasing (possibly due to their significant dividend) and they need to generate more profit to have a better balance sheet. What better way to do that than on an elective service in a hobby where people spend discretionary money anyways? Think plastic surgery. I received an advertisement in the mail last week for $3000 off body sculpting. How much must it cost to be able to offer $3000 off?
<< <i>I think offering the reconsideration service is awesome. It's kind of like CAC's service because you don't know if the old-holder coin has been submitted or not yet. This allows PCGS (like CAC) to incur profit multiple times from the same coin in the same holder without providing any indication that would prevent a new owner from being willing to spend money (if they are interested in the service). Also for those not interested in the service, they don't have to utilize it.
Let's say they do upgrade 10% of the time on this reconsideration service. That means their opinion or grading standard has changed 10% OR they want to change the original grade 10% of the time. Maybe 10% of the 10% changed are still mistakes? If the original grade was correct and then it upgrades on reconsideration and gets resubmitted a year later. On this next submission, the 'mistake' of upgrading last time might be caught and their grade guarantee will kick in. I think this is sufficient to justify the new 1% additional fee that has been added to a few services. If you think about it from their business perspective; their cash reserves have been steadily decreasing (possibly due to their significant dividend) and they need to generate more profit to have a better balance sheet. What better way to do that than on an elective service in a hobby where people spend discretionary money anyways? Think plastic surgery. I received an advertisement in the mail last week for $3000 off body sculpting. How much must it cost to be able to offer $3000 off? >>
I think that your interpretation of what 10% reconsideration success means is 110% off the mark. It was stated here years ago that if PCGS graded 100 coins that 5% might be overgraded and 5% undergraded leaving about 90% properly graded. Based on the one submission reported here that would seem to be about right. Sounds more like an attempt to compete with CAC, assuming that a PCGS 65 is more desirable than a PCGS 64 with a gold bean. How can you even quantify an opinion changing by 10%?
<< <i>
<< <i>I think offering the reconsideration service is awesome. It's kind of like CAC's service because you don't know if the old-holder coin has been submitted or not yet. This allows PCGS (like CAC) to incur profit multiple times from the same coin in the same holder without providing any indication that would prevent a new owner from being willing to spend money (if they are interested in the service). Also for those not interested in the service, they don't have to utilize it.
Let's say they do upgrade 10% of the time on this reconsideration service. That means their opinion or grading standard has changed 10% OR they want to change the original grade 10% of the time. Maybe 10% of the 10% changed are still mistakes? If the original grade was correct and then it upgrades on reconsideration and gets resubmitted a year later. On this next submission, the 'mistake' of upgrading last time might be caught and their grade guarantee will kick in. I think this is sufficient to justify the new 1% additional fee that has been added to a few services. If you think about it from their business perspective; their cash reserves have been steadily decreasing (possibly due to their significant dividend) and they need to generate more profit to have a better balance sheet. What better way to do that than on an elective service in a hobby where people spend discretionary money anyways? Think plastic surgery. I received an advertisement in the mail last week for $3000 off body sculpting. How much must it cost to be able to offer $3000 off? >>
I think that your interpretation of what 10% reconsideration success means is 110% off the mark. It was stated here years ago that if PCGS graded 100 coins that 5% might be overgraded and 5% undergraded leaving about 90% properly graded. Based on the one submission reported here that would seem to be about right. Sounds more like an attempt to compete with CAC, assuming that a PCGS 65 is more desirable than a PCGS 64 with a gold bean. How can you even quantify an opinion changing by 10%? >>
Sorry I didn't know the statistics on upgrade/downgrades. I was just making a guestimate at 10%.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I think offering the reconsideration service is awesome. It's kind of like CAC's service because you don't know if the old-holder coin has been submitted or not yet. This allows PCGS (like CAC) to incur profit multiple times from the same coin in the same holder without providing any indication that would prevent a new owner from being willing to spend money (if they are interested in the service). Also for those not interested in the service, they don't have to utilize it.
Let's say they do upgrade 10% of the time on this reconsideration service. That means their opinion or grading standard has changed 10% OR they want to change the original grade 10% of the time. Maybe 10% of the 10% changed are still mistakes? If the original grade was correct and then it upgrades on reconsideration and gets resubmitted a year later. On this next submission, the 'mistake' of upgrading last time might be caught and their grade guarantee will kick in. I think this is sufficient to justify the new 1% additional fee that has been added to a few services. If you think about it from their business perspective; their cash reserves have been steadily decreasing (possibly due to their significant dividend) and they need to generate more profit to have a better balance sheet. What better way to do that than on an elective service in a hobby where people spend discretionary money anyways? Think plastic surgery. I received an advertisement in the mail last week for $3000 off body sculpting. How much must it cost to be able to offer $3000 off? >>
I think that your interpretation of what 10% reconsideration success means is 110% off the mark. It was stated here years ago that if PCGS graded 100 coins that 5% might be overgraded and 5% undergraded leaving about 90% properly graded. Based on the one submission reported here that would seem to be about right. Sounds more like an attempt to compete with CAC, assuming that a PCGS 65 is more desirable than a PCGS 64 with a gold bean. How can you even quantify an opinion changing by 10%? >>
Sorry I didn't know the statistics on upgrade/downgrades. I was just making a guestimate at 10%. >>
I don't know how accurate those figures might be, but IIRC they were an estimate a number of years ago by some who are more knowledgeable about such things than I would be. Not sure how an opinion could change by 10% tho. For the most part, PCS seems to get it right. Would be lots easier if Morgans were like new ASEs and 19 out of 20 were exactly alike. But alas, in the real world 2 different ms65 1885-O Morgans can look nothing like each other.