So how does Textile Toning really occur?

Broadstruck · January 18, 2013 3:44AM

I see a lot of threads showing off examples but nothing on how this type of toning occurred

I kind of like these but have never been able to purchase one based on a conversation as to how these occurred that's been stuck in my head when I was still somewhat impressionable. Prior to 1995 it could have been 92 or 93... I had dinner with a group of dealers after a show and the liquor was flowing pretty heavy. Toning was the subject of the of the dinner conversation which quickly turned to mint bag toned Morgans. As so many are seen with normal full or crescent toning if behind another those seen with an actual imprint from the woven pattern of the canvas are pretty scarce. Upon which it was mentioned that textile toned examples are the ones that had been right behind the canvas which had been urinated on by rodents. Not sure if there's any validity to this theory, but I've never been able to forget it when seeing such a Morgan.

So is moisture really the reason

Wolf359 · January 18, 2013 3:49AM

I'm not sure. I bought a bag of untoned Morgans nearly 4 years ago, put them in flips and then mostly forget about them. One has now developed such toning but that was after it left the bag.

Broadstruck · January 18, 2013 3:55AM

<< <i>I'm not sure. I bought a bag of untoned Morgans nearly 4 years ago, put them in flips and then mostly forget about them. One has now developed such toning but that was after it left the bag. >>

Did the bag by chance have any small yellow stains on it

Wolf359 · January 18, 2013 4:03AM

Funny.

If moisture, It was probably a wet towel in the kitchen? I don't know and I'm mystified about it.

COALPORTER · January 18, 2013 4:36AM

I dont know, but do rememeber vault tours at the old SF mint
and they would say the round impressions in the wall were
due to bagged coins being pressed into it?

Maybe it was the coins that were pressed hard against
the concrete vault wall?

CoinZip · January 18, 2013 5:09AM

I'm by no means an expert on toning......but what I think happens is while the coins are in contact with the bag or what ever textile they are touching it leaves a residue on the coin. Think about how a finger print shows up years later.

CoinBuyer12 · January 18, 2013 5:17AM

There are little holes in the fabric from the knitting/weaving process. Take a dish towel and hold it up to the light, or the sun, you will see all kinds of little pin holes.

Ok, now the cloth protects the coin, it does not allow as much air to get to the silver, allowing it to tarnish/tone.

The tiny little holes, allow oxygen to reach the silver, tarnishing/toning the surface.

It has nothing to do with what the cloth is made of.

ColonelJessup · January 18, 2013 5:39AM

Not sure if my PM about Gulden's and Grey Poupon went through. Though it was thought that Redfield's were from peach juice, it was later established through modern DNA testing that coyote piss was the activating agent for the bags.

19Lyds · January 18, 2013 5:44AM

<< <i>Not sure if my PM about Gulden's and Grey Poupon went through. Though it was thought that Redfield's were from peach juice, it was later established through modern DNA testing that coyote piss was the activating agent for the bags.

>>

Almost spit coffee out of my nose!

coinsarefun · January 18, 2013 6:28AM

Its interesting....PCGS does not have the term Textile Toning in their "definition and explanation of the most frequently used coin collecting terms."

They do however have the ones below,

bag toning
Coloring acquired from the bag in which a coin was stored. The cloth bags in which coins were transported contained sulfur and other reactive chemicals.
When stored in such bags for extended periods, the coins near and in contact with the cloth often acquired beautiful red, blue, yellow and other vibrant colors.
Sometimes the pattern of the cloth is visible in the toning; other times, coins have crescent-shaped toning because another coin was covering part of the surface,
preventing toning. Bag toning is seen mainly on Morgan silver dollars, though occasionally on other series.

tab toning
Term to describe the toning often seen on commemorative coins which were sold in cardboard holders with a round tab.
Coins toned in these holders have a circle in the center and are said to have tab toning.

target toning
Term used for coins with circles of color, similar to an archery target, with deeper colors on the periphery often fading to white or cream color at the center.

tissue toning
Color, often vibrant, acquired by coins stored in original Mint paper. Originally, this was fairly heavy paper; later, very delicate tissue.
Sometime during the nineteenth century, the Mint began wrapping Proof coins, and occasionally business strikes, in this paper.
The paper contained sulfur; as a result, the coins stored in it for long periods of time acquired blues, reds, yellows, and other attractive colors.

toning
The term for the color seen on many coins. There are infinite shades, hues, and pattern variations seen, the result of how, where, and how long a coin is stored.
Every coin begins to tone as it leaves the die, as all United States coins contain reactive metals in varying degrees

Taken from Sunnywoods description of his toned set he states.

Among these, there are also coins that can be found with fascinating patterns acquired from contact with the burlap canvas
of the Mint bags ("textile toners"), or with roll-paper toning acquired by coins at the ends of bank-wrapped rolls ("end rollers")

My explanation is textile toning is when coins are stored in mint bags and have the right amount of time, humidity and other factors
over a long period of time not only take on a toning but a pattern of the mint bag(textile)

The long and short of it

coinsarefun · January 18, 2013 6:42AM

One more interesting tid bit of information.

From ATS......the description of Battlecreek Morgans..........which itself has always been a great read

" Among the most desirable bag toning formations that can occur are "textile toned" coins which incorporate the intricate woven
pattern of the canvas bag within the multicolor patina of the coin.

Coins from the Battle Creek Collection include all these possible iterations of bag toning.

Link to Description of Toned Battlecreek Morgans

I think I re-read this article two-three times a year

LanceNewmanOCC · January 18, 2013 7:06AM

.
well done CAF

for anyone wondering, the textile toning has been discussed here a few times, so threads are archived with tons of info, although CAF covered it rather nicely.

nothing about rat poison though, hmmm
.

coinsarefun · January 18, 2013 7:08AM

<< <i>.
well done CAF

for anyone wondering, the textile toning has been discussed here a few times, so threads are archived with tons of info, although CAF covered it rather nicely.

nothing about rat poison though, hmmm
. >>

Hey Lance

I thought to leave out the rat poisoning out

ambro51 · January 18, 2013 8:45AM

.....the bathroom was too far to walk.

So how does Textile Toning really occur?

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