Gold CAC coins

seateddime · January 16, 2013 9:36AM

Has anyone tried cracking these for regrades?

I have 15 of them and am and wondering if they are coming back at a little higher or much higher?

milkcoin · January 16, 2013 9:40AM

I don't think it's a guarantee. It's just one company's opinion.

illini420 · January 16, 2013 9:43AM

Presumably, if it came back the same grade in a new holder... you could just send it back for another gold sticker. So you really don't lose anything unless it's also in an old holder which can't be replaced.

Shortgapbob · January 16, 2013 9:45AM

I had a Proof Seated Quarter in an old NGC Fattie PF-62 holder that would have probably graded 66 and had excellent color. It sold to a sharp dealer for almost 66 money.

lusterlover · January 16, 2013 9:50AM

I have asked before and never received an answer so I'll ask again. Has anyone sent in a gold bean coin for regrade/crossover and not gotten an upgrade?

AnkurJ · January 16, 2013 9:51AM

Unless there is a huge grade difference, I'd think it's more cost effective leaving the coin in the slab with the gold sticker.

crypto79 · January 16, 2013 9:55AM

I had a NGC xf45 that got crossed into a pcgs 50 holder which is only about a 75-100 difference. I left money on the table by losing the old white coffin and sticker but I gained the right plastic.

stealer · January 16, 2013 10:03AM

There's never any certainty.

PerryHall · January 16, 2013 10:08AM

<< Unless there is a huge grade difference, I'd think it's more cost effective leaving the coin in the slab with the gold sticker. >>

I think you mean a huge price difference between grades.

Shortgapbob · January 16, 2013 10:26AM

<< Unless there is a huge grade difference, I'd think it's more cost effective leaving the coin in the slab with the gold sticker. >>

I agree with you. I have generally left them alone.......although I have one gold sticker in the safe that is going to have to come out of the holder. Too much difference in this case.

Walkerfan · January 16, 2013 11:09AM

Don't count on it but DO count on paying higher insert # money for a GOLD sticker..... counter-intuitive to me, as I'd much rather have the higher numerical grade, myself.

Broadstruck · January 16, 2013 1:03PM

<< I had a Proof Seated Quarter in an old NGC Fattie PF-62 holder that would have probably graded 66 and had excellent color. It sold to a sharp dealer for almost 66 money. >>

That was a pretty coin I actually did a thread on it here when I saw it.

lkeigwin · January 16, 2013 1:12PM

Maybe PCGS's new reconsideration?
Lance.

hiijacker · January 16, 2013 1:22PM

I sent in a bunch of coins to CAC about 2 years ago. I am certain i got back one with a gold color sticker. I have to check it out. It was a toned morgan grade AU55 So does that mean it really is a AU58?

oreville · January 16, 2013 1:44PM

I have only sent two coins in that were CAC gold stickered to PCGS. I currntly own about 75 gold stickered slabbed coins. mostly PCGS slabbed.

I personally made about 55 of them and bought about 20 of them.

One upgraded by three grades. The other one grade.

But I really enjoy finding undergraded PCGS (and NGC) slabbed coins and getting a gold sticker awarded on it.

Broadstruck · January 16, 2013 1:48PM

<< I have only sent two coins in that were CAC gold stickered to PCGS. I currntly own about 75 gold stickered slabbed coins. mostly PCGS slabbed.

I personally made about 55 of them and bought about 20 of them.

One upgraded by three grades. The other one grade.

But I really enjoy finding undergraded PCGS (and NGC) slabbed coins and getting a gold sticker awarded on it. >>

Way to go although it might be do to your lucky purple shirt?

oreville · January 16, 2013 1:54PM

due or do?

in my defense, I only buy color, I do not make color!

PerryHall · January 16, 2013 5:22PM

<< I sent in a bunch of coins to CAC about 2 years ago. I am certain i got back one with a gold color sticker. I have to check it out. It was a toned morgan grade AU55 So does that mean it really is a AU58? >>

No. It only means someone at CAC thinks it's undergraded by at least one grade.

oreville · January 16, 2013 7:53PM

CAC has only given out 1700 gold stickere out of 400,000 plus stickered coins. That does not include the number of coins that have not been accepted for stickering.

We will never see such a large influx/supply of gold stickered slabs for a long time.

Justacommeman · January 16, 2013 8:34PM

<< personally made about 55 of them and bought about 20 of them>>

Über impressive. MJ

PerryHall · January 16, 2013 8:54PM

<< I have only sent two coins in that were CAC gold stickered to PCGS. I currntly own about 75 gold stickered slabbed coins. mostly PCGS slabbed.

I personally made about 55 of them and bought about 20 of them.

One upgraded by three grades. The other one grade.

But I really enjoy finding undergraded PCGS (and NGC) slabbed coins and getting a gold sticker awarded on it. >>

I don't get it. What's the attraction of collecting undergraded coins (at least in the oppinion of CAC)?

Justacommeman · January 16, 2013 8:59PM

<< 

<< I have only sent two coins in that were CAC gold stickered to PCGS. I currntly own about 75 gold stickered slabbed coins. mostly PCGS slabbed.

I personally made about 55 of them and bought about 20 of them.

One upgraded by three grades. The other one grade.

But I really enjoy finding undergraded PCGS (and NGC) slabbed coins and getting a gold sticker awarded on it. >>

I don't get it. What's the attraction of collecting undergraded coins (at least in the oppinion of CAC)?

>>

Are you being facetious?

MJ

PerryHall · January 16, 2013 9:15PM

<< 

<< 

<< I have only sent two coins in that were CAC gold stickered to PCGS. I currntly own about 75 gold stickered slabbed coins. mostly PCGS slabbed.

I personally made about 55 of them and bought about 20 of them.

One upgraded by three grades. The other one grade.

But I really enjoy finding undergraded PCGS (and NGC) slabbed coins and getting a gold sticker awarded on it. >>

I don't get it. What's the attraction of collecting undergraded coins (at least in the oppinion of CAC)?

>>

Are you being facetious?

MJ >>

No. I'm talking about the 20 he bought that already had the gold CAC sticker. In most cases they cost a hefty premium (next grade higher and sometimes more) based on what I've seen in the marketplace. For the same money, I'd rather buy a nice MS65 than a MS64 with a gold CAC sticker. It sounds like he's collecting gold CAC stickers.

Justacommeman · January 16, 2013 9:21PM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< I have only sent two coins in that were CAC gold stickered to PCGS. I currntly own about 75 gold stickered slabbed coins. mostly PCGS slabbed.

I personally made about 55 of them and bought about 20 of them.

One upgraded by three grades. The other one grade.

But I really enjoy finding undergraded PCGS (and NGC) slabbed coins and getting a gold sticker awarded on it. >>

I don't get it. What's the attraction of collecting undergraded coins (at least in the oppinion of CAC)?

>>

Are you being facetious?

MJ >>

No. I'm talking about the 20 he bought that already had the gold CAC sticker. In most cases they cost a hefty premium (next grade higher and sometimes more) based on what I've seen in the marketplace. For the same money, I'd rather buy a nice MS65 than a MS64 with a gold CAC sticker. It sounds like he's collecting gold CAC stickers. >>

Whew

Anyways one of the many allure of gold stickers is that they are least 1.5 grades under graded. That is the perception. Many go two grades higher. Some three. So there is a hunk of it.

For te exact same coin I would rather have a 64 with a gold sticker then a solid 65 any day of the week and twice on Sunday's. That 64 may very well be a 65.6 or 66.0. They have mystique. They don't typically appeal to Registry guys (unless to crack) which I kind of like. The last Heritage auction which had close to 300 gold stickers paint a pretty clear picture of the present environment. Most go for WELL over the next grade.

MJ

RegistryCoin · January 16, 2013 9:50PM

<< We will never see such a large influx/supply of gold stickered slabs for a long time. >>

Is grade-flation over (at least, for a long time)?

georgiacop50 · January 16, 2013 10:15PM

Well it sure was a crazy ride! ...watching these things like common date Morgans or Franklins zoom up to sometimes near $1k each for a cpl. of months there, and now fall to more reasonable levels.

Anybody know why the collector decided to sell off?

Ed62 · January 16, 2013 10:57PM

"CAC has only given out 1700 gold stickers out of 400,000 plus stickered coins."

If I might ask, where did you get this info?? A year or so ago I asked CAC how many gold CACs they had issued and they couldn't/wouldn't tell me.

CoinRaritiesOnline · January 16, 2013 10:58PM

<< 

<< Unless there is a huge grade difference, I'd think it's more cost effective leaving the coin in the slab with the gold sticker. >>

I think you mean a huge price difference between grades. >>

I think it read correctly the first time, as, in my experience, some (but certainly not all) of the Gold CAC stuff is undergraded by well more than 1 grade.

RYK · January 16, 2013 11:19PM

<< "CAC has only given out 1700 gold stickers out of 400,000 plus stickered coins."

If I might ask, where did you get this info?? A year or so ago I asked CAC how many gold CACs they had issued and they couldn't/wouldn't tell me. >>

This was posted yesterday on FB:

"Out of over 429,000 coins submitted to CAC over our five year history, only 1,754 have received the elusive gold sticker. Steve Roach of Coin World gives a little insight into the mystery surrounding the gold sticker."

AnkurJ · January 16, 2013 11:33PM

<< "CAC has only given out 1700 gold stickers out of 400,000 plus stickered coins."

If I might ask, where did you get this info?? A year or so ago I asked CAC how many gold CACs they had issued and they couldn't/wouldn't tell me. >>

This was also disclosed in a confence call CAC had with other collectors on their forum a few months ago.

That's a very impressive Oreville! I've only made about 15.

Justacommeman · January 16, 2013 11:43PM

<< 

<< "CAC has only given out 1700 gold stickers out of 400,000 plus stickered coins."

If I might ask, where did you get this info?? A year or so ago I asked CAC how many gold CACs they had issued and they couldn't/wouldn't tell me. >>

This was also disclosed in a confence call CAC had with other collectors on their forum a few months ago. >>

How is that forum going? I didn't join (tempted) but often wondered.

MJ

ambro51 · January 16, 2013 11:52PM

The curious thing is that gold sticker coins don't have to be beauty queens, just look a few grades better than what's written on the label. It can be a reinterpretation on grading standards from the early TPG slabbing days or JAs understanding of how certain issues should grade vs. production line graders in cubicles looking at 500 coins a day. Frankly I don't feel they should command much more premium than the coin inside "correctly" graded.

AnkurJ · January 16, 2013 11:55PM

<< 

<< 

<< "CAC has only given out 1700 gold stickers out of 400,000 plus stickered coins."

If I might ask, where did you get this info?? A year or so ago I asked CAC how many gold CACs they had issued and they couldn't/wouldn't tell me. >>

This was also disclosed in a confence call CAC had with other collectors on their forum a few months ago. >>

How is that forum going? I didn't join (tempted) but often wondered.

MJ >>

Going very well!

RYK · January 16, 2013 11:56PM

<< The curious thing is that gold sticker coins don't have to be beauty queens, just look a few grades better than what's written on the label. It can be a reinterpretation on grading standards from the early TPG slabbing days or JAs understanding of how certain issues should grade vs. production line graders in cubicles looking at 500 coins a day. Frankly I don't feel they should command much more premium than the coin inside "correctly" graded. >>

I generally agree, though with older holder coins, the value may also be increased because of the perception that the surface of the coin has been stable for "X" number of years.

BTW, I appreciate that Don has allowed this CAC discussion (and other recent ones) to proceed. It is worth noting that a substantial majority of the coins in the SPQR collection of gold sticker coins were indeed PCGS coins.

seateddime · January 17, 2013 1:59AM

I have made some AU gold stickers of MS coins - those are kind of easy to see where they might regrade.

I like the MS65-66 stickered coins as this have some real grade pops that might follow but never have sent one in (yet).

chumley · January 17, 2013 2:54AM

the HOOK is the thrill of finding that coin worthy of the gold booger.......I,ve made only 3 but each one was a rush

Unknown · January 17, 2013 2:58AM

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DonWillis · January 17, 2013 3:15AM

If you want to keep your current insert - or whatever sticker - you can submit your coins to be regraded under Reconsideratoin. They will not be cracked out unless they upgrade by one full numeric point.

A bird in hand is worth two in the bush.

1tommy · January 17, 2013 3:41AM

<< A bird in hand is worth two in the bush. >>

Hey Don thats what I have been saying about the superbirds, and thanks for the update on doing recondsideration submission, I have a couple I would like to see what happens and its good to know they'll stay in the old pcgs slabs unless upgraded. My one question is one of these coins come from Elbesaar collection and than the SPQR collection can one keep the provenance changing holders? Or because it would be a new number if upgraded would I lose that connection? Just curious. Enjoy

DonWillis · January 17, 2013 3:57AM

You will not loose the pedigree if you submit through Reconsideration.

georgiacop50 · January 17, 2013 4:29AM

Not a whole lot of room for an upgrade on this one.

edit: BTW, If I was the consignor, I would be quite displeased with the use of the descriptor "CAC" instead of "CAC GOLD" in the auction description of many of these!

oreville · January 17, 2013 5:18AM

<< If I might ask, where did you get this info?? A year or so ago I asked CAC how many gold CACs they had issued and they couldn't/wouldn't tell me. >> This was also disclosed in a confence call CAC had with other collectors on their forum a few months ago. >> How is that forum going? I didn't join (tempted) but often wondered. MJ >> >>

It was reported in CoinWorld and also on facebook.

oreville · January 17, 2013 5:23AM

<< I don't get it. What's the attraction of collecting undergraded coins (at least in the oppinion of CAC)? >>

Well certainly more of an attraction than collecting overgraded coins???

Kove · January 17, 2013 6:02AM

<< Anybody know why the collector decided to sell off? >>

He stopped buying gold CAC coins at the Baltimore show last March when he overhead a dumb*$$ dealer from Texas (who didn't know the collector was at his table) say to his neighbor "You'll never believe how much I can get this idiot to pay for these gold stickers." That put a damper on things for him.

The collector's goal was to own 500 gold CAC coins, exhibit them at a major show, then auction them off. I believe he got up to 300. Finding gold stickers was slowing down for him at that point, anyway.

He didn't sell off all his gold CACs, as he kept 20 of the very best in his collection.

He was at FUN last week focusing his collecting on a few expensive coins, going for quality and scarcity over quantity. He's a nice guy, and I'm glad he didn't leave the hobby.

Unknown · January 17, 2013 6:23AM

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Timbuk3 · January 17, 2013 6:50AM

I'd leave them alone !!!

RYK · January 17, 2013 6:52AM

<< Thanks for sharing that story. Contempt or disrespect for collectors by dealers is one thing that has caused numismatics to at times be in a death spiral to use the words of John Albanese. Dealers who do show respect and genuinely educate and help customers without gouging them are reasons for the recovery in numismatics. Gold stickers remind me of the dot.com boom of the 90s, people thought there was no end in sight. >>

I completely disagree. Undergraded coins have always been prized in the marketplace. The gold sticker has been an excellent tool or gimmick that has allowed collectors to participate in unlocking the value while taking little or no risk. It has nothing to do with dotcoms.

telephoto1 · January 17, 2013 6:59AM

This is of course assuming that the coins in question are indeed undergraded. Many prefer to buy based on the merits of the coin itself and not just the holder, much less the shiny green or gold thing slapped onto the holder.

PerryHall · January 17, 2013 7:00AM

<< 

<< I don't get it. What's the attraction of collecting undergraded coins (at least in the oppinion of CAC)? >>

Well certainly more of an attraction than collecting overgraded coins???

>>

What if a Saint is graded MS67 by a major grading service but is really only a high end MS66? What if you could buy that coin for less than MS66 money? Sounds pretty attractive to me. Sometimes you actually have to consider the coin.

RYK · January 17, 2013 7:12AM

<< This is of course assuming that the coins in question are indeed undergraded. Many prefer to buy based on the merits of the coin itself and not just the holder, much less the shiny green or gold thing slapped onto the holder. >>

Indeed! If someone is willing to guarantee a purchase at the next grade level up, does that not indicate that at least at the market level the coin was undergraded?

If I did not like the coin, why would I buy it, regardless of stickers, plastic, etc.

I find it interesting and unusual that the SPQR collector was buying it all, soup to nuts. He bought $100 mercury dimes and $10,000 early half eagles. I cannot imagine myself doing the same.

oreville · January 17, 2013 1:47PM

<< What if a Saint is graded MS67 by a major grading service but is really only a high end MS66? What if you could buy that coin for less than MS66 money? Sounds pretty attractive to me. Sometimes you actually have to consider the coin. >>

Anyone that knows how I collect knows how picky I am. I would rather acquire a high end 66 Saint and pay low 66 money for it rather than pay regular 66 money for an overgraded coin in a 67 holder. Why? I will always look at the overgraded coin and it will ended up annoying and bothering me because I would still be looking at the coin being overgraded long after I forget the cheap price I paid. That slabbed coin will end up being flipped by me.

Gold CAC coins

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