FUN Show Report - market perspective and other commentary
Walkerguy21D
Posts: 11,715 ✭✭✭✭✭
I'll consolidate most of the ancillary details, like how I drove over in sunny 75 deg weather at 9am with the sun roof open, cranking the Jethro Tull double album greatest hits, saw a pair of bald eagles off the 528 Beachline, had dinner with dealer friends at Shoguns, etc. and saw a lot of forumites.
Spent all day Thur and Fri at the show, splitting my time between vest pocket dealing and collector looking for items for his sets. The observations and results are mine of course, others' results and experiences may and will differ. No axes to grind, no banners to wave.
The attendance on both days was busy - seemed to be a LOT of floor traffic. At any given time, it seemed every table had at least one person at it. The popular dealers you usually had to wait your turn. Example - at 5 pm Fri, I was at Coins of Merritt, his cell phone rang, and he said he would have to call them back, as he had 7 customers he was helping, which he was.
With several significant home remodeling projects underway, and an ever increasing interest in large cents, I had decided at the last minute to pull some odds and ends out of the safe to generate some cash. I sold nearly everything I brought, and with very little peddling on my part. Most of these were raw coins, and all sales were to dealers. Most of them sold for slightly above Bid, in a few cases well over Bid. Nothing was in 'old holders' or had stickers on them or any special features that some folks get excited about.
Specifics - Charmy bought most of a group of XF-MS early Indian cents, along with a very choice Unc half cent we both agreed was a 64. Several others, including a Proof 1876, went to another dealer. No other shopping around needed. I had two tough seated quarters, an 1869 and 1880, both in high VF/XF, that Rich Urich paid me very strong money for, along with a key date shield nickel, no shopping around or haggling required (both Rich and Charmy are going to get a Shout Out thread from me later, both were wonderful to work with!). Mike Hayes and PonyExpress both bought AU Barber halves, I had a dark, original NGC XF45 bust quarter that brought a good price from the third dealer I showed it to. A 16S walker in an NGC 45 holder brought over XF40 Bid from Lance Hipps (the only dealer I offered it to). A decent and better Cohen variety 1795 half cent in G/G+ had multiple offers from copper guys, but it was expressly for trading purposes, so they had to have something I needed, which I eventually found.
Two perspectives of dealers I'm close to (no spin!) - One fellow is a part time dealer who expressly carries better certified type coins. By Fri morning his sales so far were well above the expectations he had for the whole week (I will not give the $ figure, as he said it was confidential). He had to scurry around before the public came in that morning to replenish stock. The other guy is primarily a wholesaler who deals mostly in raw coins, and many of them are 'problem' coins, or coins in Third World holders, etc. that sell at a discount. His sales likewise were above expectations. He had done over $10k in sales BEFORE Wed set up, and only got busier after that. I saw him doing a LOT of business, and by Fri night, said he was having a fantastic show. So, two ends of the market spectrum, both were doing well.
Other commentary - nearly every dealer had 'holes' in their display cases, where coins had been sold. I saw a lot of small raw coins being sold to album fillers, and saw some choice seated slabbed coins going to the deep pocket guys. I was offered a stunning lightly multicolored toned 20S walker, PCGS 64, not tried at CAC, for GS Ask ($3850). I said I needed to do some homework. Went and had Lance pull up auction records a little while later, saw that it was a 'deal' at that price, and went back for it - too late, another dealer was looking at it went I got there, and bought it at the same price it was offered to me for. Don't you hate it when that happens!!!
Spent a lot of time looking at large cents (including the Cardinal Collection and High Desert Collection - wow!!). The market is still tough for those.
Very few Chain cents anywhere, even the doggy-dog coins are off the market. Wreath cents by contrast were everywhere, there were dozens of them, and most of them were rough, and none were priced under $2k. Likewise any decent 1794 garden variety was pushing or over $2k, with dogs being plentiful, but still >$500. Saw plenty of 1804 cents too, but none 'spoke' to me. Classic head cents were tough as always, plenty of junkers, the few decent ones priced at moon money. Even the middle dates are getting tough, except the post 1830 dates - those were available. I was able to upgrade my 1821 (actually the same grade, but with a smooth primo light brown planchet!), my 1826, and my 1829 (really lucked into that one, as it was it a non EAC dealer's stock), and an 1834 with a stunning double profile that I didn't 'need', but had to have!. Also picked up a relatively decent VG 1794 cent at Bid from a dealer friend, an 1857 large cent in XF+, and a couple better B-halves at ~Bid also, for inventory. That was about it - I wound up selling a lot more than I bought, which I've never done before. Had to really hunt for a decent 13S TII Buffalo for a forum customer. There were very few 'middle grade' coins around, and the asking prices for those I saw for the most part were quite high. I did get an ANACS XF40 for him, that is all there for the grade. Saw quite a few circ early walkers, but very few in true VF and higher. A few MS coins were around. The late dates as usual were stacked up everywhere. Saw a lot of seated dollars at this show, including a number of better dates. I probably saw ten of the formerly elusive 1873, in grades from Fine to Proof. I used to hunt this date, and was surprised to see so many. My dealer friend had a nice AU58 1853 with PL surfaces and light pretty tone, that I really had trouble saying no to!
Spent all day Thur and Fri at the show, splitting my time between vest pocket dealing and collector looking for items for his sets. The observations and results are mine of course, others' results and experiences may and will differ. No axes to grind, no banners to wave.
The attendance on both days was busy - seemed to be a LOT of floor traffic. At any given time, it seemed every table had at least one person at it. The popular dealers you usually had to wait your turn. Example - at 5 pm Fri, I was at Coins of Merritt, his cell phone rang, and he said he would have to call them back, as he had 7 customers he was helping, which he was.
With several significant home remodeling projects underway, and an ever increasing interest in large cents, I had decided at the last minute to pull some odds and ends out of the safe to generate some cash. I sold nearly everything I brought, and with very little peddling on my part. Most of these were raw coins, and all sales were to dealers. Most of them sold for slightly above Bid, in a few cases well over Bid. Nothing was in 'old holders' or had stickers on them or any special features that some folks get excited about.
Specifics - Charmy bought most of a group of XF-MS early Indian cents, along with a very choice Unc half cent we both agreed was a 64. Several others, including a Proof 1876, went to another dealer. No other shopping around needed. I had two tough seated quarters, an 1869 and 1880, both in high VF/XF, that Rich Urich paid me very strong money for, along with a key date shield nickel, no shopping around or haggling required (both Rich and Charmy are going to get a Shout Out thread from me later, both were wonderful to work with!). Mike Hayes and PonyExpress both bought AU Barber halves, I had a dark, original NGC XF45 bust quarter that brought a good price from the third dealer I showed it to. A 16S walker in an NGC 45 holder brought over XF40 Bid from Lance Hipps (the only dealer I offered it to). A decent and better Cohen variety 1795 half cent in G/G+ had multiple offers from copper guys, but it was expressly for trading purposes, so they had to have something I needed, which I eventually found.
Two perspectives of dealers I'm close to (no spin!) - One fellow is a part time dealer who expressly carries better certified type coins. By Fri morning his sales so far were well above the expectations he had for the whole week (I will not give the $ figure, as he said it was confidential). He had to scurry around before the public came in that morning to replenish stock. The other guy is primarily a wholesaler who deals mostly in raw coins, and many of them are 'problem' coins, or coins in Third World holders, etc. that sell at a discount. His sales likewise were above expectations. He had done over $10k in sales BEFORE Wed set up, and only got busier after that. I saw him doing a LOT of business, and by Fri night, said he was having a fantastic show. So, two ends of the market spectrum, both were doing well.
Other commentary - nearly every dealer had 'holes' in their display cases, where coins had been sold. I saw a lot of small raw coins being sold to album fillers, and saw some choice seated slabbed coins going to the deep pocket guys. I was offered a stunning lightly multicolored toned 20S walker, PCGS 64, not tried at CAC, for GS Ask ($3850). I said I needed to do some homework. Went and had Lance pull up auction records a little while later, saw that it was a 'deal' at that price, and went back for it - too late, another dealer was looking at it went I got there, and bought it at the same price it was offered to me for. Don't you hate it when that happens!!!
Spent a lot of time looking at large cents (including the Cardinal Collection and High Desert Collection - wow!!). The market is still tough for those.
Very few Chain cents anywhere, even the doggy-dog coins are off the market. Wreath cents by contrast were everywhere, there were dozens of them, and most of them were rough, and none were priced under $2k. Likewise any decent 1794 garden variety was pushing or over $2k, with dogs being plentiful, but still >$500. Saw plenty of 1804 cents too, but none 'spoke' to me. Classic head cents were tough as always, plenty of junkers, the few decent ones priced at moon money. Even the middle dates are getting tough, except the post 1830 dates - those were available. I was able to upgrade my 1821 (actually the same grade, but with a smooth primo light brown planchet!), my 1826, and my 1829 (really lucked into that one, as it was it a non EAC dealer's stock), and an 1834 with a stunning double profile that I didn't 'need', but had to have!. Also picked up a relatively decent VG 1794 cent at Bid from a dealer friend, an 1857 large cent in XF+, and a couple better B-halves at ~Bid also, for inventory. That was about it - I wound up selling a lot more than I bought, which I've never done before. Had to really hunt for a decent 13S TII Buffalo for a forum customer. There were very few 'middle grade' coins around, and the asking prices for those I saw for the most part were quite high. I did get an ANACS XF40 for him, that is all there for the grade. Saw quite a few circ early walkers, but very few in true VF and higher. A few MS coins were around. The late dates as usual were stacked up everywhere. Saw a lot of seated dollars at this show, including a number of better dates. I probably saw ten of the formerly elusive 1873, in grades from Fine to Proof. I used to hunt this date, and was surprised to see so many. My dealer friend had a nice AU58 1853 with PL surfaces and light pretty tone, that I really had trouble saying no to!
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Comments
Nice report...good reading
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Very interesting!
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Did Lance have his old man with him or has Ed hung up his spurs? >>
Ed was there, but mostly as a figure head. I deal almost exclusively with Lance, as I have for years.
But it's great to hear the stories about the old days from Ed.....he was a major figure in the copper market back in the day, I see his name listed among the provenance in auction catalogs, and he can talk at length about his dealings with Dr. Sheldon, Dorothy Paschal, and other colorful characters affiliated with large cents from years gone by.
The dealers I talked to were doing well - stronger than expected prices in some cases.
I had the same experience - went to check price history on a nice Bechtler $5 and when I came back, someone else was there writing a check, paying strong AU50 money for a XF45.
Greg,
Good seeing you again, even though you never make our Breakfast meetings anymore...lol
We really liked what you offered us and we're pleased with our purchases.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
My experience is quite similar as well.
An excerpt from my posting in another thread:
I normally like to cruise down the aisles to see what ALL the dealers were offering. This is easy to do when shows are moderately slow. NOT this time!
I did not even get to see My favorite guys like Todd and Charmy, Laura and George. This is in spite of the easist to navigate wide aisles in the entire hobby.
Doug Winter? I did not even get near him!!! I so much wanted to say hello to Jenna Van Halen since she moved over to Doug from Bowers and Merena, hmmmmm, Stacks Bowers.
Holy mackeral. on Thursday morning, I went down aisle 1100 and 1200 and bam bam boom, I was buying and selling left and right plus sitting down with wondercoin, Pat Vetter plus viewing and winning just a few Heritage auctions, My box was filling up fast with new coins, yet I still had plenty of money left to buy more.
I did notice that dealers and collectors came to transact not just to kick tires. Dealers seem to have an acceptable to a very busy show.
One of thehighlights of the entire show was finally meeting wondercoin (Mitch Spivack), face to face. He and I have had consummated well over hundreds of thousands of dollars in business with each other over the last decade yet never had met in person.
He is fabulous. He has among the best eyes in the business! I had a grading session with him for well over two hours on Friday on modern 2012 San Francisco business strike quarters after the PCGS luncheon and geez, he has the sharpest eyes in the business even without using any glass.
Interesting, we both like the echenbacher 5x glass which I swear to as the best viewing glass around.
It was overall, a great show for me but two days was simply not enough.