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Demise of the Canadian Cent
19Lyds
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Those Canadians sure have it together!
In the Dec 31st, 2012 Coin World, there is an article regarding the elimination of this coin from the Canadian Stable of currency.
To quote:
"Survey's found widespread support for withdrawel for a denomination then (sic) called "pointless" and whose cost, despite the introduction of a multi-ply plated steel alloy more than a decade ago, spiked above its face value."
Survey's??
Has anybody seen any "survey's" regarding one cent coins in the US?
I haven't but I find it odd that "we" as a collective, cannot agree that continuing to produce our venerable Lincoln Cents, which cost even more to produce, is a financial disaster whaich makes absolutely "no cents" at all!
Are we really that stupid?
In the Dec 31st, 2012 Coin World, there is an article regarding the elimination of this coin from the Canadian Stable of currency.
To quote:
"Survey's found widespread support for withdrawel for a denomination then (sic) called "pointless" and whose cost, despite the introduction of a multi-ply plated steel alloy more than a decade ago, spiked above its face value."
Survey's??
Has anybody seen any "survey's" regarding one cent coins in the US?
I haven't but I find it odd that "we" as a collective, cannot agree that continuing to produce our venerable Lincoln Cents, which cost even more to produce, is a financial disaster whaich makes absolutely "no cents" at all!
Are we really that stupid?
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
The name is LEE!
The name is LEE!
0
Comments
<< <i>Are we really that stupid? >>
Yes.
I suspect that eliminating the cent would also find widespread support in the U.S., *if* we had a chance to participate in a similar survey.
<< <i>
Are we really that stupid? >>
You really need to ask that question?
Yesterday, I was out hiking in the woods near San Francisco. I passed an area that was all fenced in with signs stating that it was undergoing Poison Oak removal.
HUH? Only in America would people try to eliminate a weed from open lands.
BTW, I got some great pictures of poison oak leaves with hoarfrost on them. Their elimination attempt is not going so well.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Are we really that stupid? >>
You really need to ask that question?
Yesterday, I was out hiking in the woods near San Francisco. I passed an area that was all fenced in with signs stating that it was undergoing Poison Oak removal.
HUH? Only in America would people try to eliminate a weed from open lands.
BTW, I got some great pictures of poison oak leaves with hoarfrost on them. Their elimination attempt is not going so well. >>
Hoarfrost??
As to the subject matter, I find it odd that, in this country, the "obvious" is always approached with question, doubt, and scepticism. (Stupidity aside of course.)
The name is LEE!
Most of the BEP's and Mint's production time is spent producing these two denominations.
However, political pressure (the Mass. congressional delegation on behalf of the Crane Paper Co. and the Mint's unionized staff) have kept these issues on the backburner.
Check out the Southern Gold Society
<< <i>Eliminating the dollar bill and the cent would save a ton of money.
Most of the BEP's and Mint's production time is spent producing these two denominations.
However, political pressure (the Mass. congressional delegation on behalf of the Crane Paper Co. and the Mint's unionized staff) have kept these issues on the backburner. >>
What would we toss into the Las Vegas Casino fountains for good luck?
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at 8.25% in parts of the state. You know they wouldn't "drop" to the next lowest denominator, they would increase it to an even 10% plus force retail, gas, you name it to not sell goods using the .99 at the
end of their pricing...again rounding "up" to the next even number. Unless, and I'm not a math major, there is something that I am missing in the equation. I do understand that the costs of minting these
cents albeit with cheaper materials is high but couldn't the government fix that by not buying "over priced" materials and force the suppliers to come in with a lower bid, something akin to not buying a hammer
for military use for $200 + dollars? I await the accountant's and money manager's responses.
1. The tax laws needn't change - transactions done on "paper" can still reflect cents; transactions done in cash can be rounded up or down by the merchant. Many merchants already do this; most of the non-chain stores I go to already round up or down and take cents out of the "take a penny - leave a penny" jar if they need to.
2. Not all merchants would round up; some would round down and advertise that fact, which would put competitive pressure on other merchants to round down as well.
3. The government can't force suppliers to lower their bids below their costs. Suppliers would simply not bid. (This would be a smart way of eliminating the cent, though. You can't mint cents if you don't have the materials.)
Check out the Southern Gold Society
<< <i>Ok...maybe a stupid question...if the cent were eliminated from our fractional currency, wouldn't the tax laws in every state need to be changed to "round" up to an even number? Currently in California we're
at 8.25% in parts of the state. You know they wouldn't "drop" to the next lowest denominator, they would increase it to an even 10% plus force retail, gas, you name it to not sell goods using the .99 at the
end of their pricing...again rounding "up" to the next even number. Unless, and I'm not a math major, there is something that I am missing in the equation. I do understand that the costs of minting these
cents albeit with cheaper materials is high but couldn't the government fix that by not buying "over priced" materials and force the suppliers to come in with a lower bid, something akin to not buying a hammer
for military use for $200 + dollars? I await the accountant's and money manager's responses. >>
Could you imagine someone successfully arguing this in the 1850's? Maybe we'd have both half-cents and cents today.
And simple fact is the government cares very little what things cost they buy what they need with your money.
I'm all for spirited debate and I like to read about issues affecting the hobby on this forum - I usually learn something new. But have any of you who champion this cause ever contacted your congressional representatives about it, or written an op-ed piece for a local or national paper, or established an online petition and then advertised the petition through social media?
I bet there are other things you can do that would be effective.
If you really want to change our "stupid" ways, then do something meaningful about it.
<< <i>And simple fact is the government cares very little what things cost they buy what they need with your money. >>
<< <i>In the grand scheme of things, the amount of money we lose producing cents is miniscule in comparison to the amount of money our government flushes away on a daily basis on pointless programs and pet projects. >>
I'm curious...can either of you cite specific examples from personal experience?
<< <i>Ok...maybe a stupid question...if the cent were eliminated from our fractional currency, wouldn't the tax laws in every state need to be changed to "round" up to an even number? Currently in California we're
at 8.25% in parts of the state. You know they wouldn't "drop" to the next lowest denominator, they would increase it to an even 10% plus force retail, gas, you name it to not sell goods using the .99 at the
end of their pricing...again rounding "up" to the next even number. Unless, and I'm not a math major, there is something that I am missing in the equation. I do understand that the costs of minting these
cents albeit with cheaper materials is high but couldn't the government fix that by not buying "over priced" materials and force the suppliers to come in with a lower bid, something akin to not buying a hammer
for military use for $200 + dollars? I await the accountant's and money manager's responses. >>
An excellent example of questioning the "obvious"!
Taxes as well as "rounding" are applied to the entire sale. As such the MOST someone could stand to lose on each "total" bill (the accumulation of all taxable items within a single purchase, would be 2 cents on a purchase which ended in a 3 cent value.
On the other hand, purchases ending in a 2 cent value would then recoup the above loss.
Would tax laws have to change?
No.
Registers would have to be modified to make the rounding operation transparent. Charges to credit or debit cards would remain "unchanged" since no cash or "cents" if you will, would be exchanged.
As it currently sits, with a sales tax of 8.25% costs the consumer .075 cents (or 1 cent rounded up) anyway.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>In the grand scheme of things, the amount of money we lose producing cents is miniscule in comparison to the amount of money our government flushes away on a daily basis on pointless programs and pet projects. >>
Why does that matter?
It's easy to make this statement about *anything* that someone wants to cut. And nothing gets cut because of that attitude.
<< <i>In the grand scheme of things, the amount of money we lose producing cents is miniscule in comparison to the amount of money our government flushes away on a daily basis on pointless programs and pet projects. >>
Some of these "miniscule" programs directly affects the constituents of the congress person that sponsers them. Its how a Senator or Congressperson serves "their" specific areas. These programs will never go away and I for one do not decry something that the State of Louisiana can do for their particular state. The same is true for any other state regardless of how foolish or silly I might think it is simply because, I don;t live there and do not really know the fiscal impact that these programs have in those geographic regions.
However, fractional currency serves the entire country and is a "basic" need that we all have. Cutting the costs of producing something that we ALL use (or don't use in the case of the cent) can serve to minimize the over expenditure of the entire federal budget. Saving a lot is simply out of the question therefore saving as much as "possible", to me, is the only true answer.
Its too bad that the politics of government has infiltrated our common sense so much that, as stated earlier, we cannot even agree on the simplest of things with out getting into some really detailed and pointless debating over whether or not it really does make sense.
This is why I started the thread since Canada, Australia, and the European countries just do not seem to have the same problems that we do as we seem to create our own problems
The name is LEE!
A lot of kids will not mess with change of any value. There is a Subway sandwich shop actoss from the local middle school. Those kids will leave all coins even if the change is 99 cents.
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<< <i>In the grand scheme of things, the amount of money we lose producing cents is miniscule in comparison to the amount of money our government flushes away on a daily basis on pointless programs and pet projects. >>
How many of you will still bend over to pick up a cent from the floor/sidewalk?
I still pick up cents - even if they're not face-up.
Check out the Southern Gold Society
<< <i><< Are we really that stupid? >>
I suspect that eliminating the cent would also find widespread support in the U.S., *if* we had a chance to participate in a similar survey. >>
Participation would mean "they" would actually have to "represent" our wishes.
I love a good cup 'o' timmies in my tummy.
I hope they drop the price a nickel.
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<< <i>eh ? Oh Canada !
I love a good cup 'o' timmies in my tummy.
I hope they drop the price a nickel. >>
You can be sure that businesses relying on large volumes of <$5 purchases will be pricing their items so that they benefit from the rounding. Not a big deal though, IMO. The penny/cent is no longer needed and it is silly to keep producing them given their lack of purchasing power.
<< <i>When you go to Bonefish Grill you'll notice the pricing is such~~~~~. 8.9. 12.5. 16.3. Confusing at first but it just ignores the last digit >>
That's a feeble mind trick (works on the feeble-minded) to try and portray something as costing less on a menu because there are fewer digits shown in the price. I've also noticed prices like 12½ rather than 12.5. Perhaps the fraction is supposed to seem meaningless because the numbers are so little. If recent events have taught us anything, it's that a lot of people don't understand 4th grade math.
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<< <i>When you go to Bonefish Grill you'll notice the pricing is such~~~~~. 8.9. 12.5. 16.3. Confusing at first but it just ignores the last digit >>
In Japan, virtually everything is priced to a multiple of 10 yen (everything has a "zero" at the end of the price).
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
<< <i>That's a feeble mind trick (works on the feeble-minded) to try and portray something as costing less on a menu because there are fewer digits shown in the price. I've also noticed prices like 12½ rather than 12.5. Perhaps the fraction is supposed to seem meaningless because the numbers are so little. If recent events have taught us anything, it's that a lot of people don't understand 4th grade math. >>
Nah, they're just trying to be hipsterish.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
<< <i>I personally hope we don't get rid of cents, but we may in time. >>
It's going to be a matter of "when", not "if". The sad part is the RCM is going to start collecting their cents next month for melting.
<< <i>Do U.S. coins circulate in Canada, at least near the border? If so, I'm thinking that U.S. cents might continue to be available after Canadian cents are removed from circulation. >>
They do. I am a long ways from the border (6 hours drive about) and I noticed a huge influx of US cents, nickels, dimes, even quarters around the time that the US dollar dipped below the value of the Canadian dollar.
While there may be US cents in Canada after the Canadian cent is recalled, they aren't legal tender. Beginning February 4th, the penny essentially becomes obsolete and business do not need to accept Canadian pennies, let alone an American cent.
From the RCM website:
To help consumers, businesses, charities and financial institutions to plan, a transition date of February 4, 2013 has been set after which the Royal Canadian Mint will no longer distribute pennies. On this date, businesses will be encouraged to begin rounding cash transactions.
<< <i>The FIRST thing that needs to be cut is the 2 BILLION a day spent on the war in Iraq and Afganastan!!!!!!! We need to get out and stay out!!!!!! >>
Conservative estimate is the we've already spent $1.5 TRILLION on these senseless , ill-advised wars. Enough to fix our crumbling infrastructure and much more.
<< <i>How many of you will still bend over to pick up a cent from the floor/sidewalk? >>
I do, and today in the 7/11 parking lot it was a wheatie dated 1921 in fine condition.
<< <i>
<< <i>The FIRST thing that needs to be cut is the 2 BILLION a day spent on the war in Iraq and Afganastan!!!!!!! We need to get out and stay out!!!!!! >>
Conservative estimate is the we've already spent $1.5 TRILLION on these senseless , ill-advised wars. Enough to fix our crumbling infrastructure and much more. >>
Can we keep this thread oin track without the political bashing? I'd hate to see it get locked over some other subject metter being brought into the fold.
Although, the politics surrounding NOT getting rid of the cent should be discussed as this seems to be the one MAJOR factor that supports its continued production.
Personally, I just find it odd that the Treasury Department would even consider exploring alternative compositions for a coin which simply is not used, is constantly being thrown away and that has no purchasing power on its own. Given that logic, why not produce 1/10th plastic tokens or even half cents again?
But then, that would confuse the cashiers and the general population. We copuldn't have that since confused folks can't make a decision one way or another.
The name is LEE!
That and my Chinese Restaurant experience has left me doubtful that many people would ever round down.