Hammered Pennies of England: Difficulty Level?

nicholasz219 · December 26, 2012 8:12PM

I have recently started purchasing hammered pennies from England and thought it might be nice to do a set by ruler as far back as financially possible. Has anyone attempted or completed a set like this? Realistically, what price range am I looking at? I'd like to spend no more than $50 per coin, which may be very realistic for some rulers and completely hopeful for others.

Also, if there is anyone who has a good dealer in mind that would be of assistance to me, that would be a great help as well. I like to troll the Bay for coins but as I am discovering, there seems to be a very hit or miss quality to coins when it comes to certain rulers and denominations.

All help and advice is welcome.

Thanks,

Nick

EVillageProwler · December 26, 2012 8:55PM

$50 won't get you much of a coin. Even a very low-grade styca from the Kingdom of Northumbria can cost a bit more than $50, and they are the cheapest as a type.

The cheapest hammered pennies are from the late Anglo-Saxon period, where massive hoards from Scandanavia or Russia exist. An average circulated specimen will cost at least 3-figures.

Good luck.

EVP

CIVITAS · December 27, 2012 4:52AM

You can buy a reasonably nice assortment of mid-grade or slightly problematic hammered coins for $50 or less, if you're not particular about denomination. You won't get anywhere near a complete ruler set and you will have gaps in the chronology, but you can buy some nice coins. You may not be able to buy only pennies either, but you should be able to buy Henry III, Edward I-III, Charles I, Elizabeth and maybe a couple of others in that range.

nicholasz219 · December 27, 2012 6:00AM

I was thinking that I may have problems with many of the rulers but I also just wanted to throw the question out there and see what everyone thought. I'm glad that you are a little more optimistic than EVProwler! (I totally understand that EVP is only being realistic.).

Part of the fun for me is trying to find good coins at a good price so I guess the thrill of collecting will be even more pronounced in this case if I find bargains where there shouldn't be any.

I have a penny from Elizabeth I and James I so far.im pretty excited about this project.

Ha, no one is taking my stupid poll.

FilthyBroke · December 27, 2012 6:51AM

While a set would be awesome, for $50 or less you will probably end up with several holes that will prove impossible to fill at that price level. I'm assuming you don't want to go back further than Henry II, since before that you will find it next to impossible to find examples. Now if you up the price to $250 or less, you may have a chance to find a couple of the earlier pennies.

Please keep us updated on this, I'd love to see how it progresses.

nicholasz219 · December 27, 2012 7:24AM

I figure it is going to take me some time to find the latter rulers in grades nice enough to buy and cheap enough for my budget. Then as I see how things progress I may up the ante to include some more expensive earlier pieces.

FilthyBroke · December 27, 2012 8:26AM

I looked over the list I had for England's monarchs from Henry II and up, and now I'm thinking it may just be possible to put a set together for around that budget level. I've seen deals here and there on Ebay for various examples, it'll just take some dedication to sort through all of it to find the good deals. Best of luck!

coachbedford · December 27, 2012 8:47AM

$50 each will get you a nice run (many if not most from Henry III I to Charles II) but you'll run into serious problems with the hammered pennies pre-1216. Money aside, a very fun set to put together.

Sapyx · December 27, 2012 9:13AM

Here's a list of English monarchs and historical periods that produced hammered coinage, with a rating on how "easy" I think it ought to be to obtain an identifiable specimen of any denomination from that monarch for US$50 or less.

William I : very difficult
William II : almost impossible
Henry I : difficult
Stephen : almost impossible
(Anarchy, including Empress Matilda): almost impossible
Henry II : moderate *
Richard I : difficult *
John : easy *
Henry III : easy *
Edward I : very easy
Edward II : easy
Edward III : easy
Richard II : moderate
Henry IV : almost impossible
Henry V : moderate
Henry VI : moderate
Edward IV : easy
Henry VI second reign : difficult
Edward IV second reign : easy
Edward V : impossible
Richard III : very difficult
Henry VII : easy
Henry VIII : moderate
Edward VI : moderate
Mary I sole reign : very difficult
Mary I and Philip : difficult
Elizabeth I : easy
James I : easy
Charles I : easy (if you include copper farthings)
(Commonwealth) : easy
(Protectorate) : impossible
Charles II : easy

The coins marked with an asterisk are "short cross pennies" and all bear the name of HENRICVS, even when the king in question wasn't named "Henry". They look identical at first glance; you'll need an expert eye and a good guide book for hammered coins (Spink isn't really good enough) to tell them apart yourself. I have a couple of short cross pennies, labelled as "Henry II" by the dealers that sold them; it turned out they were both attributable to John. The problem is, of course, that for coins in the price range in question, the fine details on these coins needed to tell the differences between the monarchs may be obscured or missing; you might need to pay above your threshold, just to gain the certainty of actually having a coin from the particular monarchs in question.

WorldTypeSet · December 27, 2012 1:16PM

Here's a list of English monarchs and historical periods that produced hammered coinage, with a rating on how "easy" I think it ought to be to obtain an identifiable specimen of any denomination from that monarch for US$50 or less.

The knowledge on this board never ceases to amaze me.

RobP · December 27, 2012 8:05PM

Anything pre-Henry II is not going to happen for less than $50, though you might get a Henry IV slipping under the radar disguised as a cheaper Henry. Aesthetics will need to be compromised to get even half way with this target, and as pointed out earlier, some will never happen.

nicholasz219 · December 28, 2012 3:22AM

Yes, well I sort of thought that the earlier I went the more expensive and harder to find each coin would be. But the search is half the battle and fun.

Gazza · December 28, 2012 10:47PM

Also the bay is awash with copies, and they sometimes catch the dealers.

BS · December 29, 2012 6:12AM

Here's a dealer that has coins in your price range. Historic Coinage

nicholasz219 · December 31, 2012 2:02AM

Thanks BS! I found some Edward I pennies that look great! Thanks for the link!

lordmarcovan · December 31, 2012 2:10AM

I tried a British (and English) monarch set, once, back when I was on a really small budget. (It was in the early 1990s). I focused on the monarchs from 1066 on up and attempted to get one portrait coin from each.

Most of my coins were less than 50 bucks, including several medieval hammered pennies. I did have some that were worth more than that. Probably my toughest was a penny of King Stephen, which was the only Norman-period coin I had. I never completed the set but I had a lot of fun with it, and I think I had everybody from the Tudors (or at least Henry VIII) on up. I had to settle for a non-portrait colonial-issue coin for Edward VIII, of course.

Some of the stuff I was buying for $50-75 back in 1992 or so would be well into the three figure range, now. I think I paid less than $100 for that Stephen Watford type penny but that was a lucky stroke even then (bought it from a dealer who strictly sold US coins).

You would have a challenge on your hands if you tried the monarch type set, but you could make good progress towards it, even on a modest budget. And most of what I learned about British history stems from the time I pursued that collection. It was fun and educational.

Hammered Pennies of England: Difficulty Level?

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