PCGS Grading options/services

coinkat · December 8, 2012 11:30PM

If PCGS were to offer an economy grading service for coins (US, World and modern excluding any type of Gold) valued under $300 without any type of guarantee with the exception of authenticity, would you be interested if the submission fee was adequately discounted?

Please feel free to explain your answer if you wish...

RYK · December 9, 2012 12:03AM

That is a very interesting idea, probably scalable to any submission, and I would like partake on some or most of my submissions.

Rampage · December 9, 2012 12:12AM

I think that would turn the clocks back a couple of decades. I prefer PCGS to keep their guarantee and their strict standards. That is what pulls them to the top and well beyond other grading services that have come and gone.

RYK · December 9, 2012 12:31AM

After further consideration, there are a couple of comments and provisions that I would add.

In order to satisfy the concern that the coins were graded to the same standard between the grade guarantee and no grade guarantee options, there should be the ability of the owner of the slab to convert from the no grade guarantee to the grade guarantee by paying a fee, perhaps something like a reholder charge plus 1% of the value of the coin.

coinkat · December 9, 2012 12:53AM

This would be a separate service and collectors could still opt for the current service

I see this service as having a different slab insert color and would be noted as such so this service would be easily distinguished from the guarantee service

Instead of waiting, I will just make my comments now:

There are just too many US, World and modern coins that just do not pay to have graded. If part of the cost of the service is the guarantee associated with the grade, give collectors the option not to choose that in order to make a submission economical.

If collectors were provided this option, it may lead to greater participation in regisrty sets - especially World Registry sets- that have limited value-

RYK · December 9, 2012 12:57AM

<< This would be a separate service and collectors could still opt for the current service

I see this service as having a different slab insert color and would be noted as such so this service would be easily distinguished from the guarantee service

Instead of waiting, I will just make my comments now:

There are just too many US, World and modern coins that just do not pay to have graded. If part of the cost of the service is the guarantee associated with the grade, give collectors the option not to choose that in order to make a submission economical.

If collectors were provided this option, it may lead to greater participation in regisrty sets - especially World Registry sets- that have limited value- >>

I am guessing that the lower price coins, with the possible exception of milk spotting on ASEs, do not materially contribute to payouts under the grade guarantee. Is someone really going to send in a $120 VF seated half dime and make the claim that the coin really should only be F-15 and ask for a $15 settlement payment?

stman · December 9, 2012 1:14AM

<< Is someone really going to send in a $120 VF seated half dime and make the claim that the coin really should only be F-15 and ask for a $15 settlement payment? >>

Shirley you jest. You do realize where you're asking this question.

RYK · December 9, 2012 1:15AM

<< 

<< Is someone really going to send in a $120 VF seated half dime and make the claim that the coin really should only be F-15 and ask for a $15 settlement payment? >>

Shirley you jest. You do realize where you're asking this question.

>>

I am serious, and don't call me, "Shirley".

LindeDad · December 9, 2012 1:29AM

I think that this would be a good way to the basement don't you?

They had problems with the guarantee on copper coins, now we can accept that the market knows which coins are graded with a guarantee and the one that aren't, don't think so.

DonWillis · December 9, 2012 3:51AM

This idea will never fly.

Let's remind ourselves as to why PCGS exists and how it has changed the market. The authenticity guarantee is very important but so it the grade. Maybe the OP wasn't around in the days before PCGS when grading was all over the place and depended upon which side of the transaction you were on.

DIMEMAN · December 9, 2012 4:05AM

I can't say yes loud enough! As long as they graded them the same.

19Lyds · December 9, 2012 5:15AM

<< This idea will never fly.

Let's remind ourselves as to why PCGS exists and how it has changed the market. The authenticity guarantee is very important but so it the grade. Maybe the OP wasn't around in the days before PCGS when grading was all over the place and depended upon which side of the transaction you were on. >>

Of course, this doesn't even address how potential buyers might determine whether or not the slabbed coin they are purchasing is covered under PCGS's guarantee?

Besides that, some coins graded (encapsulated) by PCGS already do not have a "Grade Guarantee". Simply because they are slabbed as Uncirculated or BU.

Is this what the op is asking for?

coinkat · December 9, 2012 5:42AM

Don:

I have been collecting for over 40 years and have learned afew things about grading along the way. I have a clear recollection of the early days and the monumental problems associated with grading. We are far better off today with the TPG services offered by PCGS and NGC than without it. I think we are in agreement on this.

What I have suggested in terms of offering a no grade guarantee and only an authentic guarentee for coins valued under $300 as a service options actually demonstrates how far PCGS has come in terms of setting standards as well as expectations for collectors at various stages of their collecting career. Some collectors and dealers may insist on guarantee for the grade and that does not change- other collectors just may not need or care about a guarantee.

Let me take a moment to explain an example- I collect the Mexican Peso series from 1918 through 1945. With exception of a few dates, it now costs more to submit the coin to PCGS than I spend on the coin. In part, that is because of the grade guarantee and the secure plus requirement for pre 1955 World coins. How many do you really anticipate will ever be submitted if the cost of the submission is greater than the purchase price of the coin? The value of a guarantee for such a coin, lets use a 1944 Peso that grades MS65, is just not worth having a guarantee associated with the grade. My point is simple, if there was an option that made economic sense, I suspect more coins from this series would be submitted. Please keep in mind, this is just one example and there are literally hundreds of others.

The PCGS guarantee is wonderful and a reason I still have coins of significant value (by my standards which are still quite modest in comparison to others) graded and that will not change. What could likely change is the volume of quality inexpensive coins waiting to be be graded if the economics associated with the submissions worked for the collector and PCGS. My suggestion is merely an attempt to explore what could work as well as expand the PCGS collector base.

Thank you for considering the concept- maybe someone can offer a more compelling suggestion

coinkat · December 12, 2012 8:26AM

Any further thoughts?

DeliaBug · December 12, 2012 9:54AM

To your original post, I would be interested in an Authenticity only service. But no grade, just slab it with Authentic on the label. Maybe as a value add, attribution could be done as well.

ambro51 · December 12, 2012 10:10AM

Now are these "cheapo" coins allowed in the Registry? It seems like the common pieces that swim with boredom may be less painfully purchased...

DeliaBug · December 12, 2012 10:18AM

I was leaning the other direction.

Many of the R8/R7+ issues you can easily tell which is better and why should I pay four figures for a label when all I want to know is if it's real or not.

coinkat · December 12, 2012 10:23AM

Well, you are invited to look at the Registry and see all of the sets that are inexpense, have a great look and would be fun as well as a challenge- The Mexican Peso is just one example-

There are sets from England, France, Germany, Ireland and elsewhere that could be assembled

lkeigwin · December 12, 2012 10:44AM

It would be nice to have a professional grader say the coin is genuine and problem-free. I like that. Then we can debate grade and value without getting into those messy areas.

If a grade were assigned I think it would have to be backed up by PCGS. It would weaken the PCGS brand to have some coins grade-guaranteed, others not. And confusing for collectors, especially newer ones.

But if PCGS could justify a super-economy tier that brought the submission cost way down, and coins received a "Genuine and Gradable" designation and guarantee, I think a lot of collectors would be interested.

I don't see it as a step backward.
Lance.

MilkmanDan · December 12, 2012 2:29PM

I would love a service like this. I have some early 8 reales with chopmarks that I paid around $35 to $50 for. I'd love to get them in plastic for a few reasons:
1. Authenticity check
2. easy storage
3. I want to include them in a showcase in the registry (not a competitive registry set)
4. I might even have a few true viewed

Unfortunately, the minimum fee is $25 for secure plus. This is near the value of the coin itself. I know the coins won't grade (they are chopmarked) and they aren't worth a whole lot. But, they are really cool, historical coins and I'd love to share them with others. If there was a service as described above in the OP to just assign it a cert# and call it genuine I would take advantage of it at the right price. Maybe $10 to $12 with a requirement that you submit a minimum number of coins (say...20?). Maybe it doesn't make business sense for PCGS but I really like the idea.

GrumpyEd · December 12, 2012 4:40PM

I think it would be great if they did offer a real economy class special.
But keep the grading and guarantee.

Maybe make it a very low value, some minimum number of coins like 5-10 to get the lower rate and give it a really long TPT time. Maybe they can do them when things are slow. Nothing special, no varieties or crossing or anything just normal coins in a group.
Maybe use some bulk rate shipping/insurance with it like the order must be under xx$ and ships at some flat rate.

I'd send some coins that I normally would not send.

PCGS Grading options/services

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