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Bogus is beautiful

rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,632 ✭✭✭✭✭
I have been looking for a bogus bust half (contemporary counterfeit) to add to my mostly VF-AU set. Since many of these are crude fakes in low grades, and most have damage, I decided to look for a die-struck coin that had nice surfaces, yet showed signs of extensive circulation, confirming that it had fooled many people in its heyday. This 1837 popped up on a Sunday morning on eBay, and I just thought that the 1837 date was an added bonus, extending my Capped Bust collection one year past when the mint stopped producing these. The surfaces look just like I would expect on an authentic, original, never-cleaned 1836 half in F-12, so it fit the bill perfectly. I'm not sure the seller was aware it's a fake, as there was no indication on the flip or in the auction. Unless I'm mistaken, it's Davignon 2-B (pop. 10 to 20 known, but probably growing). It's common by bogus bustie standards, but not one of the "extremely common" varieties that account for most of the known bogus specimens. So here you go, the lone counterfeit coin that I have ever deliberately purchased. I definitely approve of it, but I doubt PCGS would. image

image

image

Comments

  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i> I definitely approve of it, but I doubt PCGS would. image >>



    i don't know, they've put some strange things into holders.
    .

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • commoncents05commoncents05 Posts: 10,096 ✭✭✭
    Very cool piece. I have one around here somewhere, not sure where I put it.

    You might want to neutralize what looks like PVC by the date.

    -Paul
    Many Quality coins for sale at http://www.CommonCentsRareCoins.com
  • rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,632 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah, that could use some acetone and a Q-tip if it's PVC. However, you have to consider the distinct possibility that it's not PVC, and the coin is turning green because it's 60% copper. These were struck in all kinds of metals.
  • DorkGirlDorkGirl Posts: 9,994 ✭✭✭
    image
    Becky
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,893 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice example!

    I agree it's a 2-B. Fairly easy to say. Only two '37s in Davignon's book are "50 C."
    Lance.
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,893 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Yeah, that could use some acetone and a Q-tip if it's PVC. However, you have to consider the distinct possibility that it's not PVC, and the coin is turning green because it's 60% copper. These were struck in all kinds of metals. >>

    If it doesn't come off with acetone, then you might try Verdicare. Verdigris is just as damaging.
    Lance.
  • ambro51ambro51 Posts: 13,945 ✭✭✭✭✭
    All that effort and the make the 3 wrong.
  • The counterfeiter even went through the trouble of putting on a lettered edge
    eventhough they stopped doing it in 1836.
  • SoCalBigMarkSoCalBigMark Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image
  • Hold on a second... since a lettered edge 1837 half wasn't produced by the US Mint... isn't this a fantasy piece and not counterfeit? image
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,492 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm not getting a warm fuzzy feeling about this thread.

    I wonder why? image
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,632 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm not getting a warm fuzzy feeling about this thread. I wonder why?

    Only PCGS AU58 CAC gold sticker coins generate warm fuzzy feelings on this board. Everything else is crap. image

    Although bogus busties are by no means authentic US currency, they sure fooled a lot of people in the 1840s and 1850s (perhaps beyond), and have a proper place alongside US numismatics as illegitimate exonumia. These were not produced to fool collectors, but to be passed off as real 50 cent pieces in commerce. Evidently, a lot of merchants were duped, as most of them are circulated to death. 50 cents was a lot of money back then, so skimming a 20 cent profit off each coin would have been quite lucrative.

    Going back to the green corrosion spot, it makes me wonder what kind of metal is actually in these things. Watch it be a lead/mercury amalgam, and I will die of heavy metal poisoning after handling it.




  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,893 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The counterfeiter didn't screw up a type 2 coin. He made this mistake of minting a type 1 with 1837.

    Supposedly these contemporary counterfeits were so widespread, and so readily accepted, that at times there were more counterfeits circulating that real ones.

    They're cool pieces and very collectible. David Kahn usually has a handful for sale.
    Lance.
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,492 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I'm not getting a warm fuzzy feeling about this thread. I wonder why?

    Only PCGS AU58 CAC gold sticker coins generate warm fuzzy feelings on this board. Everything else is crap. image

    Although bogus busties are by no means authentic US currency, they sure fooled a lot of people in the 1840s and 1850s (perhaps beyond), and have a proper place alongside US numismatics as illegitimate exonumia. These were not produced to fool collectors, but to be passed off as real 50 cent pieces in commerce. Evidently, a lot of merchants were duped, as most of them are circulated to death. 50 cents was a lot of money back then, so skimming a 20 cent profit off each coin would have been quite lucrative.

    Going back to the green corrosion spot, it makes me wonder what kind of metal is actually in these things. Watch it be a lead/mercury amalgam, and I will die of heavy metal poisoning after handling it. >>

    Is it possible that these were produced as "worn coins" to add some authenticity to the piece?

    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,632 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I imagine they took a real bust half and made some kind of a die by copying it; the "model" coin could have been a worn half culled from circulation. If so, the counterfeiter was probably smart to make the coins look like they had seen circulation.

    Actually, if you read some of the literature (see the Contemporary Counterfeit Bust Half Collectors Society website, linked below), you will find that an F-12 example with nice surfaces is a "high grade" specimen. Many of these are corroded, scratched up, and look like they were no better than G-4 when they were produced (often from casts).

    link to ccCBHcc website
  • StaircoinsStaircoins Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭


    << <i>image >>

    I thought of him immediately when I read the thread title. {shudder}

    image
  • rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,632 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Who is the guy in the photo? I'm clueless.

  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    I don't know about now, but a couple years ago this was an extremely hot market segment. I sold a couple groups of these and they brought more than their mint struck brethren. In some cases, significantly more.

    Russ, NCNE
  • This content has been removed.
  • StaircoinsStaircoins Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭

    Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread!

    Very cool coin! image
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,492 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I don't know about now, but a couple years ago this was an extremely hot market segment. I sold a couple groups of these and they brought more than their mint struck brethren. In some cases, significantly more.

    Russ, NCNE >>

    So let me get this straight.

    It's ok to buy and sell counterfeit coins as long as they're not from say 2000 to Date?

    I mean, if they've got a historical role in numismatics then they're collectible?




    If thats the case, then the Chinese are in to something.
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • The contemporary pieces (made during that era) are collectible.
    The new Chinese pieces are junk....
  • Here's another neat bogus 1824 Bust Half.
    Notice that the counterfeiter cut the S backwards
    on the word PLURIBUS....

    image
  • cmerlo1cmerlo1 Posts: 7,958 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here's mine:

    image
    image
    You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
  • NumisOxideNumisOxide Posts: 10,998 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very cool!
  • The 1833 was probably made by the same counterfeiter that made the 1837
    piece. Both have the same reverse...
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,776 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I know this is an older thread, I didn't want to start a new one but thought this was interesting:

    Here is an interesting bogus 1837 half dollar I originally had listed on eBay. A collector informed me it was a counterfeit so I ended the listing.






    peacockcoins

  • 4Redisin4Redisin Posts: 623 ✭✭✭

    If it is bad, I'll bet It's still probably worth over $75.

  • Aegis3Aegis3 Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭

    Reverse type of 1838-39, so yeah, bogus. Looks contemporary. Davignon 4-D, apparently.

    (may be duplicate post)

    --

    Ed. S.

    (EJS)

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