Options
My new "ugly as sin" Trade Dollar...(redux)
stealer
Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭✭
If some of you remember a while ago, OriginalDan posted his "ugly as sin" 76P II/II Trade Dollar and since my coin is just as ugly and much more worn, I feel that it was only fitting to name the thread in the same manner.
I've come a long way since OriginalDan posted his thread, of course only under the wings of guidance of OriginalDan and many other collectors (Trade fanatics or otherwise) on this forum.
Now comes the antagonizing part of figuring out if it's a BS or proof.
I've come a long way since OriginalDan posted his thread, of course only under the wings of guidance of OriginalDan and many other collectors (Trade fanatics or otherwise) on this forum.
Now comes the antagonizing part of figuring out if it's a BS or proof.
0
Comments
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
U.S. Army Veteran 1/11 ACR Fulda, Germany
man alive it is about time you got that thing
i thought maybe it took a few rides on the event horizon!!
congratz on getting it and thanks for sharing.
.
Note how those areas are struck on my coin. And it is 100% real Philly coin too. The wonky stars are unique to that rare issue, I recommend doing a reed count and reporting back what you find. There is much to study on the enigmatic issue.
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
<< <i>Btw, the wonky stars and weak head can also be seen on 76s pieces too, but I don't recall if I/I or I/II (definitely not II/II). >>
I know I have seen quite a few 75s with non brought up heads and one or two weakly struck type 1/2 large S coins but I have never seen the hand cut star look. Note stars 1-3 esp. I will go over my notes again
<< <i>Congrats, but I see what kinda looks like whats left of an S mintmark above and to the left of the D in Dollar. >>
I can see what you see Dave but I don't think it is an S. The spot isn't a perfect match location wise for an S and there is still star 1 on the Obv that is perfect on the S mint coin. This would be the only die pair it could be if it was a S coin. For comparison
@crypto: That is one heck of a coin, irregardless of variety
@dave: I see what you're seeing in the image but looking at it in hand I see nothing, even with a 10x loupe
<< <i>Thanks for all the comments guys,
@crypto: That is one heck of a coin, irregardless of variety
@dave: I see what you're seeing in the image but looking at it in hand I see nothing, even with a 10x loupe
Also take note at the position of the 1 in the Date and how it relates to the G in GOD. The S mint coin is nice and centered but the P mint coin is offset to the left some. The OP coin looks offset to my eyes.
<< <i>
<< <i>Thanks for all the comments guys,
@crypto: That is one heck of a coin, irregardless of variety
@dave: I see what you're seeing in the image but looking at it in hand I see nothing, even with a 10x loupe
Also take note at the position of the 1 in the Date and how it relates to the G in GOD. The S mint coin is nice and centered but the P mint coin is offset to the left some. The OP coin looks offset to my eyes. >>
Here is an overlay, second image courtesy of crypto. My image isn't taken head on and is not the same size as crypto's, which accounts for the discrepancy between the red lines.
A few comments:
I believe this is a 76p (not S), here's why:
1. Shape of stars, especially #1
2. Overall strike and date placement look right
3. Reverse weak dentils around 8 'oclock look like other P mint coins made around the time this one was minted, especially the two coins that share this reverse die
4. This one is subtle, but check out the thickness of the rim on the right obverse. Notice that there's more metal surface on the right than left. This same phenomena is present on both of my 76p 2/2 business strikes.
5. I think I see mechanical doubling to the left of the eagle's wing. That's something you see on most 76p 2/2 examples.
By the way, is that a repaired chop mark above lib's thigh? This is the third beat up or problem example of the 76p 2/2 I've seen this year. They are quite hard to find but we have a mini pocket of them showing up this year, albeit all of them are thrashed.
Again, ugly coin but nice job all the same.
<< <i>
4. This one is subtle, but check out the thickness of the rim on the right obverse. Notice that there's more metal surface on the right than left. This same phenomena is present on both of my 76p 2/2 business strikes.
>>
Holy Bat Cra9; I have never noticed that before. Mine has it too based off of my observation of the true view. Might have been a misaligned die issue for the limited run, Does your proof exhibit it as well?
<< <i>
<< <i>
4. This one is subtle, but check out the thickness of the rim on the right obverse. Notice that there's more metal surface on the right than left. This same phenomena is present on both of my 76p 2/2 business strikes.
>>
Holy Bat Cra9; I have never noticed that before. Mine has it too based off of my observation of the true view. Might have been a misaligned die issue for the limited run, Does your proof exhibit it as well? >>
I would not have noticed that either if Dan hadn't mentioned it. If by proof you are referring to the one he has in his set, it does as well.
The thing going on above her leg doesn't appear to be a repaired chop, just some anomalous blob.
The yellow is caused by tape residue which may need some acetone attention which will be dealt with later.
Tried counting the reeds and I think I lost count at 10. My eyes keep crossing
Now that I have a beat-up one, I need to find a problem free one
Here's the original ugly as sin 76p 2/2, you can see the same edge surface area thickness:
And here's a close-up of star 1 from my proof, which used the same die:
I call him "stubby".
76p 2/2
76s 2/2
They are similar, but even from the pic you already posted, star 1 looks like the 76p to me.
Looking at the coin in hand, it's amazing to see how every star except for the fifth (or so it appears) suffers from recutting in the die.
Some of them are wavy
Image of S1:
Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
<< <i>Looking at the coin in hand, it's amazing to see how every star except for the fifth (or so it appears) suffers from recutting in the die. >>
those stars are odd. i can't say i really have seen stars like that on any other series and i look at a lot of the stars for attributions.
.
<< <i>Crypto, I think the edge surface thickness is easier to spot on worn coins, likely the reason you didn't see it with your nice MS coin. >>
You misread my response Dan, I do see it on mine. I was asking if you saw it on your Proof
when the PO should have delivered and they no showed!
For a formite that asked more dumb questions not too long ago you sure have learned
TD's Stealer. Good job!
bob
AUandAG: There are still many, many stupid questions to come
<< <i>
<< <i>Crypto, I think the edge surface thickness is easier to spot on worn coins, likely the reason you didn't see it with your nice MS coin. >>
You misread my response Dan, I do see it on mine. I was asking if you saw it on your Proof >>
Sorry, what I meant was that I think it's harder to notice *in the first place* on higher end coins. On worn coins, the denticles and rims become are on the same plane, as opposed to the raised edge of a mint state coin where the denticles sit lower in relation. I brought this up because you said you hadn't noticed it before.
Interesting that you see this on your MS coin too. I only have the TrueView in front of me, but it looks like the proof shows it too, to some extent. I'll take a look at the coin in hand tomorrow and report back.
<< <i>Thanks for the closeups OriginalDan,
Looking at the coin in hand, it's amazing to see how every star except for the fifth (or so it appears) suffers from recutting in the die.
Some of them are wavy
Image of S1:
To my eyes that looks like a great match with S1 on the 76p.
Image for future reference..
Nice job following through with your numismatic investigation. Next step, proof or business strike
<< <i>By the way, what is that a mirror? How did you reflect the reeds upwards like that? >>
Dan,
It was actually LanceNewmanOcc's idea, he suggested using the reflector piece of a flashlight and setting the coin inside of it.
Sure beats counting the reeds by hand
<< <i>It was actually LanceNewmanOcc's idea, he suggested using the reflector piece of a flashlight and setting the coin inside of it.
Sure beats counting the reeds by hand
Smart idea Lance, almost redeeming yourself from that avatar fiasco.
nicely done stealer
good thing i bought up a lot of flashlight stock in anticipation of you posting an image like this publicly
.
<< <i>Smart idea Lance, almost redeeming yourself from that avatar fiasco. >>
oh boy, i can see this is going to provide comic fodder for months !!
.
<< <i>.
nicely done stealer
good thing i bought up a lot of flashlight stock in anticipation of you posting an image like this publicly
. >>
It's just payback for that X-Factor image you sent me. That avatar had nothing on that hideous thing.
<< <i>
<< <i>.
nicely done stealer
good thing i bought up a lot of flashlight stock in anticipation of you posting an image like this publicly
. >>
It's just payback for that X-Factor image you sent me. That avatar had nothing on that hideous thing. >>
awe man, now that you bring it up again, i just may have to consider it for my new avatar, although it may not be worth all the nightmares
.