I am still wondering how PCGs or any grading service can grade these MS with no mention of the Chop Marks on the holder. That coin to me is damaged and proves it circulated with the mark making it a details AU on my worst day of grading..
As for the seller listing on eBay I bet it is pulled before the end unless they have some help in the wings for this.
If a person buys that coin without seeing that chop with a naked eye they must not be looking at all.
The guarantee says:
"Clerical or "mechanical" errors. PCGS occasionally makes clerical errors in inputting data which is shown on the insert in the PCGS holder; consequently the PCGS Guarantee does not cover obvious clerical errors, what we call "mechanical errors." The key concept is how obvious the error is to the naked eye. If you can easily tell just by looking at the coin that the description on the holder is wrong, then the coin/holder combination is not covered by the PCGS Guarantee."
<< <i>What's going on with the horizontal lines in the head and the foot? >>
The obverse has a lot of damage to have all been caused by the chop but MAYBE it's possible. (big maybe there) LOL... >>
The lines are often seen on Trade Dollars and appear to be pre-strike planchet preparations although I don't know what it exactly is. Perhaps Dan or Crypto can fill in here.
<< <i>The lines are often seen on Trade Dollars and appear to be pre-strike planchet preparations although I don't know what it exactly is. Perhaps Dan or Crypto can fill in here. >>
Interesting. I believe it because I can't see how they could be where they are in so many areas and not go into the denticles/rims if it was all from the chop.
Maybe the planchets had them and they get obliterated in areas except for the deep areas on the die. Hopefully someone has an explanation
<< <i>The lines are often seen on Trade Dollars and appear to be pre-strike planchet preparations although I don't know what it exactly is. Perhaps Dan or Crypto can fill in here. >>
Interesting. I believe it because I can't see how they could be where they are in so many areas and not go into the denticles/rims if it was all from the chop.
Maybe the planchets had them and they get obliterated in areas except for the deep areas on the die. Hopefully someone has an explanation >>
These used to be called roller marks, but they are actually from a "drawing bench."
It was an attempt to produce blanks of the proper weight. Ingots were rolled down to just slightly thicker than the final thickness. Then, in an attempt to get a precise thickness which, if punched out with a precise diameter blanking rod, would give you a blank of a precise weight, the strip was drawn, (or pulled, like a wagon) through a rectangular gate in a steel block. In theory this would give the strip that precise thickness.
In reality, debris could build up on the inner edge of the gate, and when the strip was drawn past that debris the debris could leave long, parallel scratches in the strip. Blanks punched from such damaged strip would theoretically be slightly underweight, since metal was missing, but could still be within the fairly loose tolerance on dollar-sized coins.
When a coin with such lines was struck, the pressure on the planchet was greater where the field on one side opposed the field on the other side, and the lines could be crushed flat. Where either side had a design element, the metal had to move further, and the lines might not be crushed flat. It's the same principle behind weak strikes on high points.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Maybe PCGS viewed that field damage as something mint caused rather than an unusual or repaired chop mark. Coin is of MS63 or slightly better quality otherwise. Appears to have been net graded down a couple of points. Yeah, probably forget to include MS61 "with CM."
I am always amazed at these pcgs srewed this up type thread. Did you bother to send an email to pcgs first before you made this post? You can nitpick and second guess anything. All the comments are made here without actually holding and looking at the coin in person. It may very well be a dog or not as bad in hand.
I am glad i am self employeed for the last 30 years, i do not like it when the doorman runs and tells the president that the vp of the company did not wash his hands before returning to his desk while all the office staff is eating lunch together.
Some coins even messed up will bring more money that pcgs is going to offer to get the coin back so why take a hit? Some people collect wierd stuff like this anyway.
I wonder how many of these kinds of threads have resulted in a coin being bought back?
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
<< <i>The obv. pic is bad, the rev. pic is a train wreck. I can't see squat but blur. >>
Is it possible the reverse pic was intentionally made blurry so the chop mark doesn't show up in the pic?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I am always amazed at these pcgs srewed this up type thread. Did you bother to send an email to pcgs first before you made this post? You can nitpick and second guess anything. All the comments are made here without actually holding and looking at the coin in person. It may very well be a dog or not as bad in hand. >>
Just a light hearted thread with no expectations that PCGS will reach out and do anything about said coin
With that said, I sure hope that's a chopmark or I may be going blind
Comments
EDIT: I see the obv. blemish.
hope it helps. i thought it may have been a counterfeit at first so i started researching. link
Coin looks genuine based off of the obverse picture.
I'd think it's a mechanical error to not mention the chop mark on the slab.
That coin to me is damaged and proves it circulated with the mark making it a details AU on my worst day of grading..
As for the seller listing on eBay I bet it is pulled before the end unless they have some help in the wings for this.
Agreed. Obvious "mechanical error".
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>I think more likely they messed up the label/coin number vs. missing the chop. >>
My first thought as well. I think if two world class graders missed that, they need to find a new job
Either way PCGS should buy it back.
If a person buys that coin without seeing that chop with a naked eye they must not be looking at all.
The guarantee says:
"Clerical or "mechanical" errors. PCGS occasionally makes clerical errors in inputting data which is shown on the insert in the PCGS holder; consequently the PCGS Guarantee does not cover obvious clerical errors, what we call "mechanical errors." The key concept is how obvious the error is to the naked eye. If you can easily tell just by looking at the coin that the description on the holder is wrong, then the coin/holder combination is not covered by the PCGS Guarantee."
Link to guarantee
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
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<< <i>What's going on with the horizontal lines in the head and the foot? >>
Add the stars and wheat stalks to the lining.
<< <i>What's going on with the horizontal lines in the head and the foot? >>
The obverse has a lot of damage to have all been caused by the chop but MAYBE it's possible. (big maybe there) LOL...
<< <i>
<< <i>What's going on with the horizontal lines in the head and the foot? >>
The obverse has a lot of damage to have all been caused by the chop but MAYBE it's possible. (big maybe there) LOL... >>
The lines are often seen on Trade Dollars and appear to be pre-strike planchet preparations although I don't know what it exactly is. Perhaps Dan or Crypto can fill in here.
They are definitely not PMD.
<< <i>The lines are often seen on Trade Dollars and appear to be pre-strike planchet preparations although I don't know what it exactly is. Perhaps Dan or Crypto can fill in here. >>
Interesting.
I believe it because I can't see how they could be where they are in so many areas and not go into the denticles/rims if it was all from the chop.
Maybe the planchets had them and they get obliterated in areas except for the deep areas on the die.
Hopefully someone has an explanation
<< <i>
<< <i>The lines are often seen on Trade Dollars and appear to be pre-strike planchet preparations although I don't know what it exactly is. Perhaps Dan or Crypto can fill in here. >>
Interesting.
I believe it because I can't see how they could be where they are in so many areas and not go into the denticles/rims if it was all from the chop.
Maybe the planchets had them and they get obliterated in areas except for the deep areas on the die.
Hopefully someone has an explanation
These used to be called roller marks, but they are actually from a "drawing bench."
It was an attempt to produce blanks of the proper weight. Ingots were rolled down to just slightly thicker than the final thickness. Then, in an attempt to get a precise thickness which, if punched out with a precise diameter blanking rod, would give you a blank of a precise weight, the strip was drawn, (or pulled, like a wagon) through a rectangular gate in a steel block. In theory this would give the strip that precise thickness.
In reality, debris could build up on the inner edge of the gate, and when the strip was drawn past that debris the debris could leave long, parallel scratches in the strip. Blanks punched from such damaged strip would theoretically be slightly underweight, since metal was missing, but could still be within the fairly loose tolerance on dollar-sized coins.
When a coin with such lines was struck, the pressure on the planchet was greater where the field on one side opposed the field on the other side, and the lines could be crushed flat. Where either side had a design element, the metal had to move further, and the lines might not be crushed flat. It's the same principle behind weak strikes on high points.
TD
Appears to have been net graded down a couple of points. Yeah, probably forget to include MS61 "with CM."
I am glad i am self employeed for the last 30 years, i do not like it when the doorman runs and tells the president that the vp of the company did not wash his hands before returning to his desk while all the office staff is eating lunch together.
Some coins even messed up will bring more money that pcgs is going to offer to get the coin back so why take a hit? Some people collect wierd stuff like this anyway.
I wonder how many of these kinds of threads have resulted in a coin being bought back?
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
i'll go ahead and post the rev image via heritage archives in case anyone is wondering what the obv blemish in the right field is from
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
<< <i>The obv. pic is bad, the rev. pic is a train wreck. I can't see squat but blur. >>
Is it possible the reverse pic was intentionally made blurry so the chop mark doesn't show up in the pic?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
ah heck, lets go ahead and take it one step further, we've already came this far ><
<< <i>I am always amazed at these pcgs srewed this up type thread. Did you bother to send an email to pcgs first before you made this post? You can nitpick and second guess anything. All the comments are made here without actually holding and looking at the coin in person. It may very well be a dog or not as bad in hand. >>
Just a light hearted thread with no expectations that PCGS will reach out and do anything about said coin
With that said, I sure hope that's a chopmark or I may be going blind