PCGS says this coin is a 1864-S, I think its an 1864-P, what do you think?

Colorfulcoins · October 9, 2012 3:37AM

The following coin was slabbed as 1864-S PCGS FR2 (Fair-2). I don't see any hint of an "S" on the reverse and think its a "P" mint. While the details are quite worn, you can still pretty clearly see the eagle detail above the supposed mint mark and the HALF DOL. letters below. Its hard to imagine the mint mark being worn away while those detail are not. What do you think? Scroll down further for a couple of comparison 1864-S halves......a PCGS PO01 and a raw 64-S that would likely grade Fair-2. Indicates where the mm should be located. Sorry for the somewhat fluzzy pics....

Here's the 2 known good comparative 1864-S half pics....a PCGS slabbed PO01 (first) and a raw fair-2 (second):

DennisH · October 9, 2012 4:04AM

Looks like a P to me too.

DIMEMAN · October 9, 2012 4:07AM

I don't see the "S", but would have to see in hand to make sure.

Southcounty · October 9, 2012 4:18AM

The tine off of the left side of the top of the D leads me to believe that it is in fact the 64-S large mintmark variety as exhibited on most 64-S seated halves the more common WB-101 variety using the old language. The 64-S has four different tail dies and three of the the four have significantly different mintmark locations as shown by your other examples. I do think your example is the large mintmark variety heavily worn and the example photos are of some of the other WB varieties with different mintmark locations.

BaseballAbs · October 9, 2012 4:28AM

Your going to need a higher powered microscope

Overdate · October 9, 2012 4:29AM

This auction coin (not mine) also has the tine on the "D", and there appears to be a faint "S" on the OP's pic in the same position as the one in the auction pic.

1864-S half

BaseballAbs · October 9, 2012 4:32AM

Maybe tilted sideways with a good loop you can see it.

pocketpiececommems · October 9, 2012 5:33AM

From your pic it looks like the top bar of the "s" is visable. If PCGS can see that I wish they could see the "3" and "2" on Columbians that should be PO01 that were no decisions.

IrishMike · October 9, 2012 9:01AM

I can see what I believe to be an S.

fcloud · October 9, 2012 9:17AM

There are probably other die markers (albeit worn out coin) in which they can tell what die it is from. It could also be a removed mint mark. I have seen some expert work where you wouldn't have known.

HoledandCreative · October 9, 2012 4:12PM

Looks like "S" using Overdate's picture.

Kaelasdad · October 9, 2012 5:12PM

Some coins have various markers aside from the obvious, and in this case, the markers seem to indicate an S.

notwilight · October 9, 2012 10:49PM

I like southcounty's approach. What other die markers are there that PCGS might have used? I don't know this series.

mbogoman · October 9, 2012 11:00PM

I see the top bar of the S, including where it touches the branch. I also see the middle "fat" part of the S.

MrHalfDime · October 9, 2012 11:08PM

Obviously, the Liberty Seated half dollar is not my series of expertise, but I may have a suggestion that might prove of value in this determination. The question was asked (by Notwighlight and others) about other die markers that could be used to positively identify the mint of origin for this coin. Rather than look at either the obverse or reverse dies, look at the third die - the edge, or the collar. The 1864-S half dollars were struck in a collar with 141 reeds, while the Philadelphia coins were struck using two collars, one with 152 and the other with 153 reeds. I realize that the coin is well worn, but perhaps the reeds can still be seen. If not all of the reeds, necessary for counting, perhaps a side-by-side comparison with a known coin would align enough of the reeds to make a determination. There is a huge difference in relative spacing between 141 and 152 reeds.

I realize the coin is in a slab, making this (and so many other diagnostic tests) impossible, but wouldn't it be worth it to crack the coin out, make the determination, and then resubmit it with the proper information?

notwilight · October 9, 2012 11:17PM

<< <i>Obviously, the Liberty Seated half dollar is not my series of expertise, but I may have a suggestion that might prove of value in this determination. The question was asked (by Notwighlight and others) about other die markers that could be used to positively identify the mint of origin for this coin. Rather than look at either the obverse or reverse dies, look at the third die - the edge, or the collar. The 1864-S half dollars were struck in a collar with 141 reeds, while the Philadelphia coins were struck using two collars, one with 152 and the other with 153 reeds. I realize that the coin is well worn, but perhaps the reeds can still be seen. If not all of the reeds, necessary for counting, perhaps a side-by-side comparison with a known coin would align enough of the reeds to make a determination. There is a huge difference in relative spacing between 141 and 152 reeds.

I realize the coin is in a slab, making this (and so many other diagnostic tests) impossible, but wouldn't it be worth it to crack the coin out, make the determination, and then resubmit it with the proper information? >>

Good knowledge for a series you don't follow. Perhaps it should be resubmitted for attribution by PCGS asking them to put the number of reeds on the label. --Jerry

MrHalfDime · October 9, 2012 11:20PM

"Good knowledge for a series you don't follow. Perhaps it should be resubmitted for attribution by PCGS asking them to put the number of reeds on the label."

Thank you for the compliment, but it has less to do with 'good knowledge for a series I don't follow', and more to do with a comprehensive numismatic library.

LoveMyLiberty · October 10, 2012 8:27AM

Could you image the whole obv & rev please. There are some
traits that may indicate an "S" mint, or a "P".

PCGS says this coin is a 1864-S, I think its an 1864-P, what do you think?

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